Car repair philosophy. Anyone think like this?

[RunningBum]

Kind of like stocks the book value only matters if you're looking to sell the car but if you keep driving it then you have to look at the maintenance cost and divide it by the number of years you plan to keep it. So if you spend $500 on new tires and you get 5yrs out of the car then your operating expense was $100 per yr (plus anything else you did to the car).

Operating expense on a new car would be the (cost + maintenance if any)-residual value divided by the length of time. So if you keep a new car worth $30k for 5yrs and at the end of 5yrs it's worth $15k then (30k - 15k)/5yrs=$3k per year operating cost.

A used car also depreciates. Not as much as a new one, but there is almost always going to be more depreciation over those 5 years you talked about. That used car is going to have an operating expense of a lot more than $100 (plus the other things you did) per year.

 

[W2R]

My car repair philosophy is to keep the mileage down, be OCD about maintaining it, and when it starts needing repairs (or is ~ 10 years old), do the first or possibly second repair and then immediately sell it and buy a new car.

I know, this is not the ER Forum standard. But to me, a car must be an ultra-reliable form of transportion, and is not my choice for a "fun project".

 

[Scrapr]

I talked to a fleet manager on the commercial truck side. Penske or hertz or some such. Not the rental U Haul type but the leasing to companies that run their own fleet. He said they sell a truck when the repair costs = 50% of purchase cost. I guess that would keep your fleet pretty new.

I run our fleet until only scrap value is left. And my last 2 Volvo cars went to 300k miles. So i service them regular and keep up on repairs. I am a high mileage driver though. My last Volvo cost just over $20k in oil changes and repairs over 12 years. So right at the 50% mark.

We may sell Mrs Scraprs Rav 4 that is only 4 years old though. She is kind of enamored with a new Volvo. She wants to pick it up in Sweden. we'll see how that works out

 

[dvalley]

A used car also depreciates. Not as much as a new one, but there is almost always going to be more depreciation over those 5 years you talked about. That used car is going to have an operating expense of a lot more than $100 (plus the other things you did) per year.

You're right but again depreciation to me doesn't really matter if you're committed to keeping the car long term or until you run it into the ground. I was using the tires for $500 ($100 per year) only as an example.

One of my cars I bought for $6k with 90k miles on it, I drove it for 9yrs put close to 300k miles on it then sold it for $2300. My maint/repairs over 9yrs were around $5k so my cost of ownership was something like $1200/yr. Of course, I do all my own repairs/maint so that accounts for low maint cost.

 

[RunningBum]

It's inarguable that driving a car into the ground or close to it works out a lot better financially in almost any case than buying new every 5 years.


It's also inarguable that the newer car is almost sure to be more reliable.


I've broken down in a blizzard, 2 miles out of a small town. I was 22 so I survived, but I remember telling the friend with me that I understood how people die in situations like that. We were lucky that we were on our way to ski, and dressed to be outside in that weather. I could still survive it since I do endurance events, but there are a lot of people who couldn't, and some day I will be one of them.


Some of you may know your cars will enough to accept that risk as not much higher than a new car, and some of you may be fooling yourself about how reliable it is. My 97 Miata seems bullet proof, so far, but I've become more careful about how bad of weather I'll drive it in, and how remote I'll go with it. It's not worth it to me to squeeze a couple thou a year and put my life at risk, not to mention the hassle of dealing with a broken down car. I see a broken down car on the highway far from town, and I think about how bad of a day that person must've had.


It's one of the reasons I worked a couple years extra, so I could be confident that I can replace my cars on a schedule that seems reasonable to me.

 

[RunningBum]

And I still contend that depreciation has some play in this even if you're going to drive the car into the ground. If you've got a car worth $1500 and you decide to put $500 in tires on it, for $100/yr over 5 years, and at the end of those 5 years you leave it on the side of a road, you have another $300/yr gone because you could've sold it for $1500 5 years earlier. It pales in comparison to the newer car depreciation but you can't factor in depreciation on one and ignore it on the other, no matter how long you hold the car.

 

[dvalley]

Again, the only time depreciation comes into play is if I want to get rid of the car. Say I have a $1500 pickup truck I use to run to home depot. One morning the engine throws a rod. A replacement engine costs $1500. The question now becomes put $1500 into it or get another truck. I then have to take into account what other things it might need in the future (tires, battery, catalytic converter, shocks etc). If I don't plan to sell it I ignore the depreciation, which is very little in this case anyway. I've never left even my worst beaters on the side of the road, I did donate one time and got a small tax break but since then I've always sold or parted out cars and usually been pretty happy with the results. Again, I enjoy working on cars so it's a bit different in my case.

BTW, I had that gen Miata, fantastic cars, still have a repair manual for it! They're pretty bullet proof but like anything mechanical and electrical you never know when a car might breakdown. Not long ago was offroading and came across a brand new 2017 Toyota Tacoma with the hood up on the side of a trail..the dash was lit up like the xmas tree and no power to go uphill. The owner was upset he paid $38k for a 4wd toyota truck (doesn't get any more reliable than that right?) only to find himself and his kid stuck in the middle of nowhere. I cleared all the codes, which got him running again, then escorted him to the main trail in case he got stuck again. Case in point, breakdowns can happen even to new cars and new cars can be much harder to fix on the side of the road.

 

[samclem]

It's also inarguable that the newer car is almost sure to be more reliable.


I've broken down in a blizzard, 2 miles out of a small town. I was 22 so I survived, but I remember telling the friend with me that I understood how people die in situations like that. We were lucky that we were on our way to ski, and dressed to be outside in that weather. I could still survive it since I do endurance events, but there are a lot of people who couldn't, and some day I will be one of them.

I agree, and I agree that a newer car is more likely to offer higher reliability (given similar makes, etc). But I wouldn't choose to put myself in a situation where my survival depends on the continued functioning of my car/heater/heater fan, etc. Neither a new car nor an old one is immune to quitting, and having an operational cell phone, a blanket or two, and somebody who knows where you are going and how/when you'll get there is probably smart in cold weather regardless of the car's perceived reliability.

 

[Music Lover]

I've broken down in a blizzard, 2 miles out of a small town. I was 22 so I survived, but I remember telling the friend with me that I understood how people die in situations like that. We were lucky that we were on our way to ski, and dressed to be outside in that weather. I could still survive it since I do endurance events, but there are a lot of people who couldn't, and some day I will be one of them.

It gets stupid cold here and little problems can quickly become big problems when it's -35. Most people keep extra boots, mitts, blanket, jumper cables, etc. in their cars and will let someone know if they're heading out.

Cell phones certainly help if you've slid off the road...unless you're in a dead spot. I also carry a tow rope (AWD Subaru) and have used it to pull out someone that was in the ditch.

 

[jazz4cash]

I talked to a fleet manager on the commercial truck side. Penske or hertz or some such. Not the rental U Haul type but the leasing to companies that run their own fleet. He said they sell a truck when the repair costs = 50% of purchase cost. I guess that would keep your fleet pretty new.

Yeahbut Penske and Hertz are the most expensive leasing companies around. They pass that cost onto their customers so not great examples to choose. They buy thousands of trucks annually and get great pricing from the oem's. They also typically include maintenance cost in the lease payment and those vehicles need more to keep them on the road than a passenger car.

 

[Scrapr]

Yeahbut Penske and Hertz are the most expensive leasing companies around. They pass that cost onto their customers so not great examples to choose. They buy thousands of trucks annually and get great pricing from the oem's. They also typically include maintenance cost in the lease payment and those vehicles need more to keep them on the road than a passenger car.

Just an example of the thinking from a professional. Not some guy in a garage running cars through a LOF and check the tires

I did get a look at some repair invoices. Wow. Less than $100 for a cast wheel drum. I pay $300-500 ea. That was pretty impressive

 

[DAYDREAMER]

I just spent $6K replacing worn components in my 220k mile 1996 dodge/cummins truck. This truck will run a million miles if kept up. I think it was money well spent, compared to buying a new $65k truck. Book value doesn't even factor into my equation. + the current truck does everything I need with crazy power for towing and looks like new. It's still my baby. Even stitched new high grade leather onto the worn steering wheel. Drives and feels new.

 

[PoorOldCountryBoy]

My rule of thumb is when the maintenance on the old car gets close to the car payments, increased taxes and higher insurance of the newer car, then it is time to trade. What does that mean for me? If I was looking at a $1500-2000 total I'd do some serious consideration. That's a lot - either engine or transmission issues or just a lot of deferred stuff like all new everything.

 

[albireo13]

I budget $1500 a year, per car, for maintenance. Each year there always seems to be a big expense for each car ... new set of tires, new exhaust system, brakes, water pump, timing belt, body work ... you name it. This on top of normal stuff ... inspections, fluid changes, etc.
I don't mind. That's a lot cheaper than a new car or a car loan!

 

[ncbill]

Still cheaper to repair than replace, at least for us.

We own 10+ year old vehicles, so a (rebuilt) transmission would probably be ~$3000.

But newer vehicles with 8 or 9 speed auto trannys, double that (DSG tranny can be triple that)

 

[RISP]

I believe that a new car is generally safer than one 10+ years

I don't know, is this still the case? I drive a 2007 Toyota. It has ABS, ESP, and all the airbags you could ask for. I think the only new developments after that are 'driver assistance' BS (lane assistant, automatic emergency breaking, ...) that I do not want. I AM the driver, it is MY responsibility to make sure the car doesn't bump into anything.

 

[Scrapr]

I don't know, is this still the case? I drive a 2007 Toyota. It has ABS, ESP, and all the airbags you could ask for. I think the only new developments after that are 'driver assistance' BS (lane assistant, automatic emergency breaking, ...) that I do not want. I AM the driver, it is MY responsibility to make sure the car doesn't bump into anything.

so you aren't lining up for autonomous driving car then?

personally I like the extra doo dads

and my heated steering wheel

 

[Music Lover]

I love the heated steering wheel (and seats) on my new car...those are great features for a winter climate.

I don't need blind spot monitoring though because the mirrors can be adjusted to eliminate it.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I just like a new car every 3 years......... Then just order what I want and not what I do not.

 

[RISP]

so you aren't lining up for autonomous driving car then?

I think that does get interesting at the point were cars can self-drive 100%. If I could read a book or take a nap during my commute, I would definitely look into a new car.

 

[GTFan]

I think that's a long way off for legal reasons. Folks keep saying it's coming within the next few years but I have my doubts.

When it does come I think a lot of folks will just rent cars by the mile or whatever, it will change the whole way we look at transportation (no need for big parking lots etc.).

 

[GravitySucks]

At every eight years I think I'd max out at three more cars. Number three would be at 80 so it better be a self driver. I don't want to be that guy that is a hazard to everyone else.
I think self drivers will be like an Uber. My neighbor goes to work, his car is now available to drive me somewhere.
Looking at it this way next car should be something awesome. The once in a lifetime car, because it might be! Is a 64 year old in a Porsche too gauche? I can still grow the soul patch and ponytail.