Car upkeep, what's neccessary and what's fluff?

[haha]

When I got out of the Navy, the 'CO' of the base asked me what I thought contributed to the Highest "Up time of any Facility on the Base" - I told him that with old equipment, it paid not to disturb the components any more than necessary. I left it at that.

This is a great story. I'd love to hear more of your Navy stories. It reads like an old movie with Fred MacMurray.

Ha

 

[Nords]

This is a great story. I'd love to hear more of your Navy stories. It reads like an old movie with Fred MacMurray.

You know Fred was the bad guy in "The Caine Mutiny", right?

Maybe it should be Jack Lemmon or Henry Fonda... but not Kelsey Grammar.

 

[samclem]

In one of my offices we had a really old piece of cryptographic gear (but, at least it was solid state). The techies were always coming to do "preventaive maintenance" on it, after which it would not work right. Since the gear was important, I finally had a talk with the head techie and convinced him not to do any more maintenance until it broke. It turns out there was a reason they were always messing with it--it was the last machine of its kind in our area, and all the apprentice tech guys needed to work on it to get signed off and compete for promotion.

Back to cars . . . sometimes think I'm the last person in the US who still changes his own oil. One of our cars has a filter that's very hard to get to. Does anybody have experience with the remote-mount filter kits? It would be very nice to just unscrew the filter (place upen-end up for a change) from a bracket on the firewall.

 

[BUM]

Back to car upkeep...I tink C-T has hit all the bases. Besides oil changes, fresh coolant, and brakes - I'm big on tire rotation. My Envoy has 17" tires and they are expensive to replace. I have an impact wrench and 2 jacks so rotation is a snap. I also work the full-size spare into the 5k mile rotation, so 5 tires are being changed. After 39,000 miles all look good. Hoping for another 20,000...we'll see.

PS The extended bumper-to-bumper warrantee has more than paid for itself. The dealer always gives me a loaner and when I pick up the truck "no charge".

 

[Cut-Throat]

This is a great story. I'd love to hear more of your Navy stories. It reads like an old movie with Fred MacMurray.

Ha

Mikey,

The funniest story that I remember from my time in the Navy.

I was stationed at a very small base in the Woods in Florida. About 200 people total. It reminded me a lot of MASH (that was very popular at that time). We had our own Major Frank Burns equivalents. One day the Frank Burns equivalent - A Chief Petty Officer decided that the Barracks and Main Office building of the Base looked a bit drab and he was going to plant flowers around the building to spiff things up. The guys that worked for him were really heavy into Drugs at that time - This is 1972 Man! - Pot, LSD, and Hallegenic Mushrooms were growing next to the base, you name it! - Anyway these guys decide to ditch most of the Flower seeds and plant Marjuiana seeds around the barracks. They got a real kick out of watching the Chief water their Pot Plants every morning.

The real funny part is when the Base had a 'Drug Crackdown' on the Base. Everyone was removed from the Main building/barracks when NIS showed up with their drug sniiffing dogs. We could hardly keep from laughing when the Dogs kept sniffing the Pot Plants, and their handlers had to pull them into the building to find the 'Real Drugs'

The Chief did a good job fertilizing and watering the Pot Plants all summer. He never did understand why they did not produce the flowers that were on the picture of the seed package, but he appreciated the greenery that the plants provided and was really impressed with the size they attained!

When the Fall harvest came, the guys that lived in the barracks claimed that the Chief's Pot was pretty good stuff! - And the Chief thanked them for cleaning up the foilage before winter.

 

[Nords]

... all the apprentice tech guys needed to work on it to get signed off and compete for promotion.

I used to confront that challenge with Navy dentists & wisdom-tooth extractions.

Back to cars . . . sometimes think I'm the last person in the US who still changes his own oil. One of our cars has a filter that's very hard to get to. Does anybody have experience with the remote-mount filter kits? It would be very nice to just unscrew the filter (place upen-end up for a change) from a bracket on the firewall.

I still do my own oil changes... every six months or 1500 miles, and usually the time expires first. Since we tend to have cars long enough to risk stripping out the crankcase drain I installed the "Sure-Drain" plugs, which has greatly reduced the excitement factor.

I can't believe the conspiracy theorists let the aftermarket guys make oil filters accessible. What's next-- lifetime CV boots? Million-mile sparkplugs? Automatic transmissions that never need maintenance? A 100-mpg carburetor?!?

 

[free4now]

Doing the replacements listed in the car manual (and nothing more) seems to be the way to go.

I used to have the idea that it was best to have the dealer service the car until the 36 month warranty expires.  But I've been rethinking that now that I'm ER and have lots of free time to scout out deals.

Most dealers will quote a price of $300 for the 30k service on my Prius.  I found a coupon for $220 from my dealer.  I noticed that the only actual services listed in the owner's manual for 30k were an oil change, tire rotation, and air filter change.  Everything else listed were just inspections.  I figured I could change the filter myself for the price of the part, do the oil at a cheaper place, and I get free rotations elsewhere so all I really need to make sure my warranty coverage is up to date is the inspections.  I asked the dealer how much he would charge for just the inspections, and he said $120.  Once he could see I was really trying to avoid unneccessary costs he said "off the record" that I don't need the inspections to qualify for warranty coverage and that most of that stuff never goes bad at 30k anyway.  Many of the inspections are stuff that Oil Changers do as part of their $30 oil change, so I decided not to bother getting the inspections done.

I'm questioning whether I really should have paid $180 to the dealer for the 15k service... it was just an oil change, rotation and some inspections.    I could have just spent $30 on the oil change and got the rotation for free.

Also note that many dealers add extra completely unnecessary services to their scheduled services, above and beyond what is listed in the owners manual.  Definitely reject those.

 

[free4now]

I changed my oil a few times and decided it wasn't worth the hassle. I never invested in the ramps or aftermarket jacks so jacking the car up and then crawling around with barely enough clearance to keep my nose off the oilpan wasn't much fun. I figure the $30 I pay at Oil Changers is well worth it for the insurance against having the car fall off the jack and crush me. Plus they do some inspections while the car is up on the lift that I just couldn't do. Not to mention dealing with recycling the oil.

 

[Nords]

I changed my oil a few times and decided it wasn't worth the hassle.  I never invested in the ramps or aftermarket jacks so jacking the car up and then crawling around with barely enough clearance to keep my nose off the oilpan wasn't much fun.   I figure the $30 I pay at Oil Changers is well worth it for the insurance against having the car fall off the jack and crush me.  Plus they do some inspections while the car is up on the lift that I just couldn't do.  Not to mention dealing with recycling the oil.

It keeps getting better every year--
Drive-up Rhino Ramps-- $15  (no car jacks).
Trash bag with crumpled newspaper, oil-soaked contents burned at local HPower plant-- free.
Sure-Drain oil-changing plug-- $10.

Inspections... don't know, never had anything fail because it wasn't regularly inspected.  It's pretty easy to spot drips & dangling objects while you're changing the oil.

 

[dusk_to_dawn]

I'm an oil changer myself, but I have never heard of Sure-Drain oil plugs. I guess you can get those at any car parts store? As for oil, I just pour it into a container and leave it at the nearest oil change place.

 

[Nords]

I'm an oil changer myself, but I have never heard of Sure-Drain oil plugs.  I guess you can get those at any car parts store?

Probably. Wal-Mart too.

Family Handyman has an "I Want That!" update just about every issue; Sure-Drain popped up a couple years ago.

 

[samclem]

Yep, oil changes are usually fast and not exciting. I did strip a drain plug once, and years ago I didn't notice that the old filter gasket stayed on the block and I just spun the new filter onto it. It's amazing how fast the oil pumped out and all over the place, very "impressive".

Fram makes oil plugs that open with a little gizmo, I've used them, but the flow rate is very slow. I'm going to check for the ones Nords uses.

Filters: IIRC, Fram filters are not good. Most others are okay (including Purolator, many other brands)

I figure I save about 15 bucks per oil change. I check out the CV boots when I'm down there. I use 50% synthetic--it's probably not really worth it, but I drive a lot of short distances and it also gets cold in te winter where I'm at.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I tried the sure drains. Had trouble with them leaking on one car, no matter what sort of gasket I used. Other than that, for me they were as messy and troublesome as a regular oil plug. Troublesome on the occasions you wanted to drop in for a quickie oil change at some lube place, half the time I'd get "what the heck is THAT?" :

 

[Nords]

... years ago I didn't notice that the old filter gasket stayed on the block and I just spun the new filter onto it.  It's amazing how fast the oil pumped out and all over the place, very "impressive".

A friend of mine earned his first motorcycle accident that way.  The dealer had changed his oil for him (free warranty checkup) and the mechanic hadn't noticed that the first gasket stayed behind.  Between the insurance and their legal settlement he was able to buy an even bigger & faster crotch rocket, but that's another sad story.

Fram makes oil plugs that open with a little gizmo, I've used them, but the flow rate is very slow.  I'm going to check for the ones Nords uses.

Uhm, I think that's the one.  It takes 5-10 minutes to drain, which is enough time for me to lay rags all over the chassis & floor to absorb the filter's mess when I remove it.  By the time I'm done cleaning up all the horizontal surfaces and putting in the new filter, the crankcase has drained.

I've read that Fram oil filters are crap but I don't know how a 10-year-old car would be able to tell the difference.  I've been using them for decades and I don't know how I would tell either.  Same for the oil-- I just go for the second-cheapest 5W-30 on the shelf (the cheapest looks like it's refills from the recycled oil dropped off by yesterday's customers).  

I suspect that oil & filters are along the lines of the "Tastes great, less filling", "Single malt vs blended" and "Pouilly Fuissé vs Two-buck Chuck" debates...

I tried the sure drains. Had trouble with them leaking on one car, no matter what sort of gasket I used. Other than that, for me they were as messy and troublesome as a regular oil plug. Troublesome on the occasions you wanted to drop in for a quickie oil change at some lube place, half the time I'd get "what the heck is THAT?" :

They're sized differently for various cars and I find that the drain hoses are pretty long. One nice thing about the plug is that you can start draining hot oil without burning yourself, although I have yet to solve the hot-filter problem (a water-soaked rag and the hot-engine dance just doesn't cut it). I've never had a leak and I trimmed the hose to fit my drain pan.

I've never used a lube place.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Some time ago I had linked to an article some eng-ineer had written who had bought and taken apart all of the oil filters. The fram was a definite no-no...some plastic parts, a piece of string tying the filter material together and not a lot of filter material, along with a design that frequently bypassed the filter altogether and just passed the unfiltered oil back into the engine. Generally bad mojo. Guy liked purolator, purolator plus, motorcraft and a couple of others that used metal parts, didnt bypass unless the oil was really cold or the pressure was really high, more and better filtration material, and something upscale of a piece of string holding the filter material together. I'll see if I can find the article.

but in short, yes, an old car needs good oil filtration as much as a new one.

As far as oil, last time I saw someone do a full test was consumer reports doing it on taxi cabs in NYC. That was a long time ago, maybe 10 years. They found little difference between the 10w40's but more depletion of additives and viscosity loss in some 10w30's than in others. I figure if it meets the SG (or whatever the current 'standard' is) and i'm changing it every 2-3k miles or 6 months (the latter almost always coming first), its all good.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

This looks like it...

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Conclusions...

Recommended Filters

Based on the simple criteria above and the information I gathered in the Oil filter Study, I have found some filters that are readily available and are of good quality in my opinion. I have disassembled many filters and made observations and measurements on them. Sadly, some of the most common and popular filters don't cut it in my book. Those filters are described in the next section. The filter names are also links to the Oil Filter Study page, which gives the intimate details of that filter in the Ford 5.0L V8 version. You will find all the hard data for these filters there. What follows are filters that I recommend in alphabetical order:

AC Delco Duraguard

This filter does not appear to be AC Delco's original design, but it is still pretty good. As far as I can tell, it is no longer available for the Ford 5.0L. It has one of the highest filter element surface areas with fewer, but very deep pleats. It also has strong, metal end caps with a nitrile rubber diaphragm-type anti-drainback valve and steel bypass valve. It is one of the better filters you can get for $3.

I have had some feedback about these filters leaking at the seam between the backplate and the can. Often this was in situations where the engine was modified. Also, during a recent oil change, I found that this filter did not have the best anti-drainback valve. It is better than Fram because I have very little valve train noise at startup (I had a lot with the Fram), but I have not used them since.

AC Delco Ultraguard Gold

This filter appears to be a Champion Labs filter. This is not surprising given that Champion Labs also manufacturers other AC Delco filters for some European vehicles. See the German Oil Filter Study.

Amsoil

No real information yet. I have cut it open and it looks like a very nice filter. The manufacturer appears to be the same as Baldwin. I am not sure they are worth the rather high price (over $10 shipped).

Baldwin

They look like tough filters inside. Similar design to the Hastings and Amsoil. These are the filters I have been using lately.

Bosch

This is yet another Champion Labs filter that is sold at AutoZone. I am not a big fan of Champion filters. They seem flimsy on the inside to me.

Car And Driver

This is a Champion Labs filter that is sold at Target.

Deutsch

This is a Champion Labs filter that is sold at AutoZone.

Fram Tough Guard

Even with all the problems of the other Fram filters, this one is not too bad. It has a heavier filter element with more surface area, a silicone anti-drainback valve, the cheap pressure relief valve, but with a clever integral screen to keep out large particles, and enough inlet holes for good flow. The only other drawback to this filter is that it is capped on each end with cardboard instead of metal. Looking in through the center outlet does not reveal any paper end caps, but they are there. I personally do not use this filter, but the design didn't have enough bad qualities to cause me to tell others to avoid it.

Hard Driver

This is a one of the few oil filters that uses a synthetic filter element. It's has a dual-density layering "depth" filter element. The construction of the filter is what you would expect from a quality filter with steel filter element caps and special epoxy-coated steel mesh retainers to keep the element from flexing. It also has a good flowing, strong steel case and a zinc-coated backplate to prevent pre-installation corrosion. I have disassembled but have not measured this filter. I used these for a few years with no problems until they seemed to go out of business.

Mobil 1

This filter is made by Champion Labs and uses a synthetic fiber element that can filter out very small particles. It is rated by the manufacturer at just under the Purolator Pure One as far as filtering capability, but is still very much above conventional paper filters. It also has a very strong construction to withstand high pressure spikes during start-up. Given the choice between the Purolator Pure One and the Mobil 1 filters, I would choose the Mobil 1 because of the restriction concerns of the Pure One. However, as with all Mobil 1 products, expect to pay 2 - 3 times as much for this filter. I have seen this filter sold at AutoZone and K-mart and used them a few times, but I feel they are not worth the money.

Though I have never had problems, I have received feedback from a few people that these filters may leak at the base. It seems that the seal between the backplate and can may burst under high pressure (at startup). These were on Ford engine applications.

Mopar Filters (various)

These filters are Frams, Purolators, or Wixes. Mopar does not manufacture it's own filters, nor do they require anything special from these manufacturers. Since they basically paint them a different color, stamp them with a Mopar logo, and double the price, there is no reason to buy them. Sadly, the Mopar Severe Duty 53020311 filter is actually the worst filter of them all. It is a Fram Extra Guard.

Motorcraft

The one I opened seemed to be a Purolator hybrid. It had the Premium Plus case (anti-drainback valve, gasket, etc), but with what appeared to be a Pure One filter element. This was a cheap way to get a Purolator Pure One. It is sold at many locations including AutoZone, Pep Boys, etc. I have heard from several people that Motorcraft seems to switch between Purolator and Champion Labs as the manufacturer so be observant.

NAPA

They sell two lines of oil filters: NAPA Silver and NAPA Gold. They are both made by Dana (Wix) and there is no obvious difference between them. They may have different elements, but NAPA does not state that this is the case.

PowerFlo

This is a Purolator Premium Plus that I have seen at Murray's Auto Supplies.

ProLine

This is a Purolator Premium Plus that I have seen at Pep Boys. Pep Boys also sells the Purolator Premium Plus brand, which is pretty dumb (to be selling both).

Purolator Premium Plus

The Purolator is a solid design. It seems to have one of the tougher paper filter elements of the low-end filters and the bypass valve is built right into the cartridge. There are no internal sealing problems with this filter at all. There is an assembly string that is wrapped around the filter element, probably to hold it in place while the glue cures in the end caps. In the ProLine (one of the Purolator clones), the string was wrapped too tightly and had damaged the filter element. All the other Purolator-made filters (8 in all) had no trouble, and even the damaged one would probably have been fine. I usually go with these in a pinch.

Purolator Pure One

This is an interesting filter design made by Purolator. Most of the construction of the Pure One is the same as the Purolator Premium Plus. The big difference is the filter element itself. It has a dense paper/fiber filter element that can filter very small particles. The result of this is cleaner oil exiting the element, but more oil restriction. Purolator addressed this by adding more filter material (more and deeper pleats). After seeing one of these filters cut open, I am apprehensive about this filter. It seems to have so many pleats that it is almost a solid chunk of filter element. It seems like it would end up restricting the flow, more than anything. Purolator has plenty of data on the filtration abilities of this filter and I don't doubt it, but they have no flow data. Even so, I don't see any major problems with this filter. It also sports a silicone anti-drainback valve and a PTFE treated nitrile rubber gasket.

STP

This is a Champion Labs filter that I have seen at AutoZone and Walmart.

Wix

Another quality oil filter similar in design to the Purolator. It has metal end caps on the filter element, a standard nitrile anti-drainback valve, and a seemingly good flow. They are manufactured by the Dana corporation. These appear to have a depth gradient filter element, which uses cotton fibers to progressively trap smaller particles as they get deeper in the filter. This helps maintain good flow as the filter gets plugged.

Filters To Avoid

The following list of filters have known problems. You will see well-known names here and will probably be disappointed. This is because many of these brands have stopped making their own filters and buy from a common manufacturer.

Fram Extra Guard

Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. It features cardboard end caps for the filter element that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals against the cardboard and frequently leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak all the time. The stamped-metal threaded end is weakly constructed and it has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow. I had one of these filters fail in my previous car. The filter element collapsed and bits of filter and glue were circulating through my system. The oil passage to the head became blocked and the head got so hot from oil starvation that it actually melted the vacuum lines connected to it as well as the wires near it.

Fram Double Guard

Another bad filter idea brought to you by your friends at Fram. The filter itself is a slightly improved design over the Fram Extra Guard, but still uses the same filter element. It has a silicone anti-drainback valve, a quality pressure relief valve, and enough inlet holes for good flow. The big problem is that they are trying to cash in on the Slick 50 craze. They impregnate the filter element with bits of Teflon like that found in Slick 50. As with Slick 50, Teflon is a solid and does not belong in an engine. It cannot get into the parts of the engine that oil can and therefore does nothing. Also, as the filter gets dirty, it ends up filtering the Teflon right out. Dupont (the manufacturer of Teflon) does not recommend Teflon for use in internal combustion engines. Please do not waste your money on this filter.

Penzoil

This filter is a Fram! It is the exact same design as the Fram Extra Guard filter and it is junk. On the up side, it costs $1 less than the Fram version.

Quaker State

This is another Fram Extra Guard that I have seen at K-mart. It used to be a Purolator, but Quaker State is now owned/controlled by Penzoil...

 

[Nords]

As far as oil, last time I saw someone do a full test was consumer reports doing it on taxi cabs in NYC. That was a long time ago, maybe 10 years. They found little difference between the 10w40's but more depletion of additives and viscosity loss in some 10w30's than in others. I figure if it meets the SG (or whatever the current 'standard' is) and i'm changing it every 2-3k miles or 6 months (the latter almost always coming first), its all good.

Yup. 5W-30 is actually in both our owner's manuals, but we never see temperatures below 55 degrees. If it was that cold I'd be too frozen to get out of bed and drive the car anyway.

Conclusions... Recommended Filters

I'm not debating the quality of the research or the filter, or even the motivations of whoever paid for the study.

The logic here appears to be "Good materials, good design, good filter. Cheap materials, poor design, bad filter." But from the car's performance I can't tell that any filter is better for the engine than stuffing a wad of paper towels into a plastic water bottle and duct-taping it to the oil-filter threads. I've never had a problem with the cheap Frams or with oil-lubricated engine components and I don't see a reason to spend more for better.

Air conditioners, starter motors, water pumps... that's a different batch of issues. But piston rings, crankcases, head gaskets, crankshafts, several different cars over the last 25 years-- never had a problem!

 

[Andre1969]

Must not live in a place that gets much winter. Coolant will break down after 30-40K. In a Minnesota winter you'd have a big problem.

We get just enough winter to be obnoxious in the DC suburbs. My Intrepid has the Mopar equivalent of Dexcool though, which is supposed to be good for 5 years or 100,000 miles. Now with that older green stuff, they always recommended changing the coolant and the hoses around 3 years/36K miles.

I think the main reason my mechanic told me I could go to 150,000 miles before the second coolant change is because at that time, I'd had the car about 3 3/4 years and had already driven about 85,000 miles. He was probably thinking that I'd hit 150,000 miles in less than three years from that point.

My understanding with Dexcool and its equivalents is that it's fine up until about 5 years/100,000 miles, but once it goes beyond that point, it actually turns highly destructive and can ruin the engine. Where in contrast, the old fashioned green stuff will simply lose its ability to transfer heat, lose its resistance to freezing and rust, so it will slowly let the engine get damaged in a more passive way if you let it go too long, but the modern pink/orange stuff will actually aggressively attack the engine.

 

[Nords]

We get just enough winter to be obnoxious in the DC suburbs. 

I think you're being modest.

I've wintered in Pittsburgh, DC, Denver, Adak, NYC, Albany, Connecticut, Scotland, Monterey, & San Diego.

DC was by far the most consistently nastiest.  Pittsburgh had some tougher lows and a nastier stretch or two but you could always count on DC to deliver a higher & more consistent quality of pain.  I broke a steering wheel in Albany and blew up frozen sanitary hoses in CT & Scotland but DC winters make the Ironman triathlon look like a 100-meter sprint.  Even in February as you watched the snow melt you knew that you were going to get clobbered good at least one more time.

I will defer, of course, to those poor souls in Minnesota & Boston-- especially the guy surfing on the Great Lakes.  I have no desire to continue my research...

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I'm not debating the quality of the research or the filter, or even the motivations of whoever paid for the study.

IIRC, the guy had a fram filter come apart and kill the motor in his mustang, but I may have him mixed up with another guy. Certainly that would taint ones opinion of the product.

I don't see a reason to spend more for better.

I dont pay more for the purolator plus or motorcraft filters i'm buying vs the frams. The frams are defintely more "available" in volume and applications, but when I find a filter that fits I just buy 3-4 of them. They dont go bad. Heck, one of the auto chains had a rebate deal on filters a couple of years ago and I stocked up. I think I paid about two bucks a filter.

I do have to admit that after looking at the innards of the filters that I didnt feel terribly comfortable about pumping hot oil at high PSI through a couple of them.

 

[Poundkey]

I've been messing with cars most of my life, and I like doing my own maintaince. I agree that Fram oil filters are something to stay away from.......just my opinion. I've cut them apart after use and have seen the cardboard endcaps and filter media collapsed. Several mid priced filters do great including Wix. Top of the line (again my opinion) are Mobil 1, and Purolator Pure 1. The Pure 1 being a bit more restrictive due to it's fine filter media.
Oil?....most all meet the specs for todays cars. I personally run Mobil 1 synthetic in our Honda and Valvoline Maxlife in my old vette due to it's additive pack.....which the older engines need from what I gather.
If you really want to split hairs as far as how often to change oil send a sample of used oil to this place: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ . They will send back a report telling you exactly how your engine is doing with the current oil, filter and change interval. It costs about $20.
Blackstone's report just gave my son the green light to extend his OCI (oil change interval) past 7500 miles using Mobil1 synthetic oil and M1 filter. They suggest the next change at 8500......then have that sample tested. He drives a Toyota 4Runner.

......#.......

 

[WanderALot]

My understanding with Dexcool and its equivalents is that it's fine up until about 5 years/100,000 miles, but once it goes beyond that point, it actually turns highly destructive and can ruin the engine. Where in contrast, the old fashioned green stuff will simply lose its ability to transfer heat, lose its resistance to freezing and rust, so it will slowly let the engine get damaged in a more passive way if you let it go too long, but the modern pink/orange stuff will actually aggressively attack the engine.

I just topped off my coolant in my car and the new coolant was almost clear-yellowish pink, so I'm assuming that's the Dexcool stuff you are talking about. I'd never heard about this before, I'll have to check the container when I get home. I used to use the premixed coolant and that was green.

I've never done the 30k or 60k on my car or my wife's car. I found that half the stuff didn't even apply for my car. For example, they said that they replace the plugs at 30k, but my plugs are platinum plugs that aren't supposed to be replaced until 60k. We just end up cherry picking services as we go, coolant flush, transmission flush etc.

One thing I noticed is that the 30k service at my dealer is supposed to take 1.5 to 2 hrs. Now, considering how slow they seem to work doing an oil change, I'm not so sure they can do a whole lot more.

 

[Cut-Throat]

One thing I noticed is that the 30k service at my dealer is supposed to take 1.5 to 2 hrs. Now, considering how slow they seem to work doing an oil change, I'm not so sure they can do a whole lot more.

Count your money.

 

[BunsGettingFirm]

It's not that you think they aren't doing the job. They aren't. I had one mechanic at a Jiffy Lube tell me that my tires are filled to 35 PSI as part of their courtesy service after an oil change. I'm like, "Really? The sticker on the door says 28 PSI recommended. You have just over inflated my tires." It turns out he just read the max recommended pressure off the side wall and said that what he did. I measured the tires out in the parking lot, and all 4 tires read 28 PSI.

From what I've seen, most of the "check this, check that" stuff never gets checked. Thats what you're paying extra for. That can lead to a false sense of security.

Unless its one of those deals where they check stuff for free looking for stuff they can charge you to fix. Then you better get a second opinion.

Theres a term, I think its "wall job", where you bring your car in for service, they put it over next to a wall, and go get it when you come in to pay.

Ever notice your car seems to run better after you wash it?

Perception...