Cash Back Credit Cards?

[audreyh1]

I ran the Arrival+ application and was turned-down in the online process without a pull on the credit report.

They sent a letter. "...you've already established the maximum allowable number of this product with us."

So I called just now and it sounded like the "no" would stick, but I asked "what if I cancelled the old Arrival card?" At that point, the rep offered to move some of my available credit over from the existing cards (I already had two Barclaycards with a total of $25K credit) to the new Arrival+ card.

So this confirms the idea discussed in various threads, including the available credit percent poll, concerning how one company doesn't want to get too exposed, but each company doesn't care about the others seems to hold.

Anyway, I had them split the credit 6K, 6K, on the two old cards and 13K on the new card. It looks like I should get the card soon and will be able to book the trans-Atlantic business flights pretty soon! And then collect the sign-up bonus.

Each credit card company definitely cares about how much credit they allow a given customer, and moving around the credit limits on various cards is a very standard way they are quite willing to accommodate a customer.

 

[Carpediem]

There is an excellent alternative to the Chase Sapphire, which I'd highly recommend to anyone looking for a travel rewards card. It's the Barclaycard Arrival+ Mastercard, and it has no annual fee for the first year ($89 thereafter) plus you get 70,000 bonus points—worth $700 in travel credits—if you spend $5,000 in the first three months. This is currently the #1 rated card at doctorofcredit.com, which is my go-to site for credit card recommendations.

Just applied and was approved for the Barclaycard. This is our first ever travel rewards card. The bonus will really pay off for us as we have 3 trips planned this year and a trip to Aruba next year for DW's 60th birthday.

Thank you for your post!

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

Just applied and was approved for the Barclaycard. This is our first ever travel rewards card. The bonus will really pay off for us as we have 3 trips planned this year and a trip to Aruba next year for DW's 60th birthday.

Thank you for your post!

Have your wife apply for one also....double your bonus!

 

[Sunset]

There is an excellent alternative to the Chase Sapphire, which I'd highly recommend to anyone looking for a travel rewards card. It's the Barclaycard Arrival+ Mastercard, and it has no annual fee for the first year ($89 thereafter) plus you get 70,000 bonus points—worth $700 in travel credits—if you spend $5,000 in the first three months. This is currently the #1 rated card at doctorofcredit.com, which is my go-to site for credit card recommendations.

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/barclay-arrival-70000-point-sign-up-bonus-with-annual-fee-wavied/

I did have this card, and kept it paying the fee as I booked future trips on it, since it had great travel insurance.
I did end up switching it to a simple arrival card, but misunderstood the person on the phone as to the coverage, so will probably cancel this card.

 

[sengsational]

Hitting the Signup Bonus Level

I'm new to the CC "game", but getting into it (as evidenced by my arguably excess posting on the topic lately).

This is a question about "tricks" to hitting the spending level required to trigger the bonus.

I saw that when spending was a little shy of the trigger amount, people purchased Amazon gift cards, which, for an Amazon shopper, is like money in the bank.

This might have been posted before, but I didn't see it if so, but I wondered about buying a fully refundable airline ticket for a flight scheduled sometime, say 9 months out. You pay the CC bill for the air ticket, say it's $3000 and triggers the bonus. Spend another $500 on "this and that", then apply the bonus. You're at a zero balance now, after two months, and you've collected your bonus. Now you cancel your flight and have a credit balance of $3000. Over the next "unlimited amount of months" you spend that $3000, getting you to a zero balance again. So you basically prepaid your spending on that card, but in so doing, you triggered the bonus early.

I'm sure I'm not the only one to think of this, so I just wondered if those who know more about the game than I do know of any flaws in the scheme. I'm not sure credit card companies would care because you did spend the amount of money required within the time frame, and if you get that money back, you're going to have to re-spend it anyway. Thoughts? Experience? SGOTI Wisdom?

 

[Aerides]

You'd have the read the very fine print on each bonus offer, but typically this is why they don't pay out for a month or so after the qualifying period.

Most people who can afford to fake a few grand worth of spend, and then further fake by paying for it, before waiting a few months, are going to be able to meet the spend anyway, but I'm sure there are some who do this almost for a living.

That said, a fully refundable airline ticket is the only one way to do it. You could go buy a nice piece of jewelry at Bloomingdales or Nordstrom as they offer returns up to a year.

Your theory on then slowly spending down the refund may not work though, as most banks won't let you hold a credit balance for more than a cycle or so, and will send you a credit balance refund. For the amount you're talking about, it would be auto-issued by most banks, but maybe not all.

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

I'm new to the CC "game", but getting into it (as evidenced by my arguably excess posting on the topic lately).

This is a question about "tricks" to hitting the spending level required to trigger the bonus.

I saw that when spending was a little shy of the trigger amount, people purchased Amazon gift cards, which, for an Amazon shopper, is like money in the bank.

This might have been posted before, but I didn't see it if so, but I wondered about buying a fully refundable airline ticket for a flight scheduled sometime, say 9 months out. You pay the CC bill for the air ticket, say it's $3000 and triggers the bonus. Spend another $500 on "this and that", then apply the bonus. You're at a zero balance now, after two months, and you've collected your bonus. Now you cancel your flight and have a credit balance of $3000. Over the next "unlimited amount of months" you spend that $3000, getting you to a zero balance again. So you basically prepaid your spending on that card, but in so doing, you triggered the bonus early.

I'm sure I'm not the only one to think of this, so I just wondered if those who know more about the game than I do know of any flaws in the scheme. I'm not sure credit card companies would care because you did spend the amount of money required within the time frame, and if you get that money back, you're going to have to re-spend it anyway. Thoughts? Experience? SGOTI Wisdom?

Buying tickets with the intent of never using it and asking for a refund is unethical to me, kind of like buying a huge TV right before the Super Bowl, and then taking it back to the store the next week.

Easy way to meet spending used to be simply buying Visa gift cards at the grocery store or CVS. This time of year, you could pay your taxes with a credit card.

 

[Sojourner]

Just applied and was approved for the Barclaycard. This is our first ever travel rewards card. The bonus will really pay off for us as we have 3 trips planned this year and a trip to Aruba next year for DW's 60th birthday.

Thank you for your post!

You're welcome! Once I realized what a great deal this card could be for many FIREd travel lovers like myself around here, I felt that I had to spread the word. I'm currently working on my $5,000 spend in order to get the 70K signup bonus.

 

[Sojourner]

I saw that when spending was a little shy of the trigger amount, people purchased Amazon gift cards, which, for an Amazon shopper, is like money in the bank.

This should work perfectly well, as long as your purchase of the cards is not coded by the merchant as "gift cards". Most CC signup bonuses exclude spending on things like gift cards/certificates, although I'm not sure if this is the case with the Arrival+ card. But regardless, an easy way to get around this is to purchase the AMZN gift cards at a grocery store along with your other groceries, and it all just gets lumped together and coded as retail/food/grocery purchase.

This might have been posted before, but I didn't see it if so, but I wondered about buying a fully refundable airline ticket for a flight scheduled sometime, say 9 months out. You pay the CC bill for the air ticket, say it's $3000 and triggers the bonus. Spend another $500 on "this and that", then apply the bonus. You're at a zero balance now, after two months, and you've collected your bonus. Now you cancel your flight and have a credit balance of $3000. Over the next "unlimited amount of months" you spend that $3000, getting you to a zero balance again. So you basically prepaid your spending on that card, but in so doing, you triggered the bonus early.

I'm sure I'm not the only one to think of this, so I just wondered if those who know more about the game than I do know of any flaws in the scheme. I'm not sure credit card companies would care because you did spend the amount of money required within the time frame, and if you get that money back, you're going to have to re-spend it anyway. Thoughts? Experience? SGOTI Wisdom?

Hmm.... I'd be careful with this sort of hack. It could work, but I'd imagine that the CC companies are wise to these sorts of schemes and have measures in place to detect them. I believe the fine print does typically state that the spending required to receive the bonus must be net of any refunds received, regardless of when the refund is issued. So in the exact scenario you detailed above, I think what could end up happening is that a $500 charge would show up on your CC bill after you cancel the $3,000 refundable air ticket, since the CC company would (rightly) say that you never actually met the signup bonus spending requirement and therefore you owe them the $500 that you applied the phantom signup bonus to. Of course, this is all speculation on my part, but if I were you, I'd probably stick to buying lots of AMZN gift cards at the grocery store to meet the bonus spend requirement.

 

[Sunset]

One thing would be to pre-pay some bills you have that are payable by credit card.
For example, we pay our water bill by CC, without any special charge, so I could simply pay $1,000 towards our bill, and not have to worry about paying it for the rest of the year.

In some cases it even makes sense to pay a 2% surcharge to meet the limits.
On a $3,000 spend (taxes?) a 2% surcharge is $60.

 

[kgtest]

As for Manufactured Spend...sure, it's a thing. I just don't get into that level. I do prepay for Grocers and Gas Gift cards, only if I am coming up on a quarter where that is not a category between our 3 rewards cards.


Between Discover and our 2 Chase Freedoms...we have usually 3 chances to save $75 in a year...for a total of $225 in savings if we spend $4500 in gas every year (which we do). Same thing for groceries. The category comes up 3x a year, for a total of $225 in savings that we are going to spend money on anyways, just need to know which card to pull. Once the rotating category knowledge is a habit, it's just second nature...set it and forget it.



So do I manufacture my spending for Gas and Groceries...absolutely.

 

[Carol1862]

Too bad I didn’t see this last week. We are going to Hawaii next year and only American flies out of my small airport. I took the AA card (CitiBank). No fee first year. Spend $3000 within first 3 months and get 50,000 points. Added to the points I already have and I’ll be able to get 2 round trip tickets. I’ve used frequent flier miles when traveling abroad and had the AA card in the past. After the year I’ll cancel it. My go to card is our Fidelity card for the 3% back. That’s the money we’re using to save for expenses on the trip. But the card you mention looks like a smart travel card.

 

[Sunset]

Too bad I didn’t see this last week. We are going to Hawaii next year and only American flies out of my small airport. I took the AA card (CitiBank). No fee first year. Spend $3000 within first 3 months and get 50,000 points. Added to the points I already have and I’ll be able to get 2 round trip tickets. I’ve used frequent flier miles when traveling abroad and had the AA card in the past. After the year I’ll cancel it. My go to card is our Fidelity card for the 3% back. That’s the money we’re using to save for expenses on the trip. But the card you mention looks like a smart travel card.

Don't feel bad, that sounds like a good deal as well, nothing says you can't do the other now that you hit the $3K spending on AA. Although I'd wait for a big expense to kick it off.

 

[kaneohe]

........................... Right now the Discover card features a 5% rebate on grocery purchases. Of course I often hit the $60 "cashback" key at checkout. What a great ATM alternative, getting a $3 rebate instead of getting hit with a $3 surcharge.

Is this for real? Not a cash advance but a "purchase"?
Would it work for other cards , e.g. Chase Freedom, when groceries are
5%?

 

[Dtail]

Is this for real? Not a cash advance but a "purchase"?
Would it work for other cards , e.g. Chase Freedom, when groceries are
5%?

Interesting.
I will try it out soon for my BOA Cash Rewards CC which gives 3.5% back for groceries, plus saves a trip to the ATM machine.

 

[Markola]

I used a no fee cash back Visa for the last 9 months, which yielded $600. Unfortunately, it wreaked havoc on my YNAB budgeting so I’m going back to a plain vanilla debit card.

 

[Dtail]

I used a no fee cash back Visa for the last 9 months, which yielded $600. Unfortunately, it wreaked havoc on my YNAB budgeting so I’m going back to a plain vanilla debit card.

 

[badatmath]

One thing would be to pre-pay some bills you have that are payable by credit card.
For example, we pay our water bill by CC, without any special charge, so I could simply pay $1,000 towards our bill, and not have to worry about paying it for the rest of the year.

In some cases it even makes sense to pay a 2% surcharge to meet the limits.
On a $3,000 spend (taxes?) a 2% surcharge is $60.

Your water must be made of gold it would cover my water bill for about 10 years

 

[N02L84ER]

Is this for real? Not a cash advance but a "purchase"?
Would it work for other cards , e.g. Chase Freedom, when groceries are
5%?

Discover separates out the cash back amount on our statements. We do not get the 5% applied to the "cash advance", but it is also not a true "cash advance" and does not immediately start accruing interest.

 

[Sunset]

Your water must be made of gold it would cover my water bill for about 10 years

Chicago supplies water and needs to replace all the lead pipes as people are complaining So the price of water is high. But $1,000 would cover us for over 1 year.

 

[kaneohe]

Discover separates out the cash back amount on our statements. We do not get the 5% applied to the "cash advance", but it is also not a true "cash advance" and does not immediately start accruing interest.

Pls confirm........you are saying you don't get 5% cash rewards on cash from a grocery store when "real" purchases do and at some point (when?) it would start accruing interest? This sounds different from what "OP" said and what
reps at both Discover and Chase told me. Now I'm confused........

 

[meleana]

We have the American Express Blue Cash Back Card. 6% on groceries, 3% on gas and 1 % on everything else. $95 annual fee- still worth it as gas and groceries are our biggest expenses. We pretty much put everything we can on this card.


Last year we got back around $800. Then we got back around another $200 from our other cash back credit cards. Citi World Wide and Discover. They both alternate 5% cash back deals.

So- for example- if Citi is offering 5% cash back on gas for a a quarter (3 months)- then we switch to using it for our gas during that period of time.

Works out great and is simple and every year that is our vacation spending money.

As for Discover Card- yes- you can ask for cash back when you go grocery shopping or dept. store shopping (like at Walmart) and no interest accrues if you pay your credit card balance in full for that next statement.

 

[calmloki]

I knew there was a reason to have rentals! Thanks to the sewer/water bills, garbage bills, buying new carpet and such meeting minimum spends isn't too hard. Then there are the lumpy expenses: we have a $4200 hazard/liability policy due in May to the tune of $4200. We don't travel that much and have a mass of Chase UR points anyway, so I hunt cash bonus cards. This time I signed up for the Navy FCU Flagship Visa. $500 bonus + 2% cash back, annual fee waived first year and no 1099 to raise my income and pay tax on. Almost a 14% discount on the insurance bill and I write off the full $4200 on my taxes, since that's what I paid.
I've also prepaid utility bills into the future and normally pay car insurance as a lump sum. Haven't paid the fee to pay taxes with a card because I don't like paying extra to get the bonus, but that can be worthwhile if it's the only option.

 

[sengsational]

Buying tickets with the intent of never using it and asking for a refund is unethical to me, kind of like buying a huge TV right before the Super Bowl, and then taking it back to the store the next week.

I would never consider doing something like the TV thing. I also find it distasteful to see the kinds of returns people make after obviously using a product. I'm not too worried about an airline ticket though...that seat is the same and I'd return it with plenty of time for the airline to sell it.

I wish I could say I was creative enough to think of this technique for "manufactured spend" (a new term to me), but the truth is I bought a mostly refundable ticket from a European airline which actually didn't cost too much more than the non-refundable one. The ticket is to get my wife back from a trip "early" due to her duties for caring for her dad. But if he's doing fine at the time, she can continue traveling.

Your theory on then slowly spending down the refund may not work though, as most banks won't let you hold a credit balance for more than a cycle or so, and will send you a credit balance refund. For the amount you're talking about, it would be auto-issued by most banks, but maybe not all.

(my bold) That's an interesting point I didn't consider. That would make it real easy for them to take-back their bonus...they cut a check for the balance, less bonus.

Hmm.... I'd be careful with this sort of hack. It could work, but I'd imagine that the CC companies are wise to these sorts of schemes and have measures in place to detect them. I believe the fine print does typically state that the spending required to receive the bonus must be net of any refunds received, regardless of when the refund is issued. So in the exact scenario you detailed above, I think what could end up happening is that a $500 charge would show up on your CC bill after you cancel the $3,000 refundable air ticket, since the CC company would (rightly) say that you never actually met the signup bonus spending requirement and therefore you owe them the $500 that you applied the phantom signup bonus to. Of course, this is all speculation on my part, but if I were you, I'd probably stick to buying lots of AMZN gift cards at the grocery store to meet the bonus spend requirement.

(my bold) Thanks for the advice. It would be a huge dissatisfier for someone who came into the situation "honestly", as my case would be. But I'd be glad to pay $500 if DW's dad was doing so well that we could return her "early return" ticket!


ADDITION: I just read the "fine print". In the regular credit card agreement, it just says the bonus program is contained in another document. And in the bonus program document, it seems not to address the "problem" of returned purchases. My thinking is that they probably don't try to claw-back the money very often, if at all. If it was a problem for them, you'd think they'd say "at our option, we may charge the customer for bonus funds, even if already applied", or something like that.

That said, a fully refundable airline ticket is the only one way to do it. You could go buy a nice piece of jewelry at Bloomingdales or Nordstrom as they offer returns up to a year.

Knowing there are many other even simpler ways of buying, then returning something make me think the CC companies are less likely to just "let it go". I've still got some time, so I could use that card for more purchases, just so we have the flexibility of turning in that early return ticket without worry.


Thanks, all, for the "manufactured spend" ideas:

As for Manufactured Spend...sure, it's a thing. I just don't get into that level. I do prepay for Grocers and Gas Gift cards, only if I am coming up on a quarter where that is not a category between our 3 rewards cards.

Easy way to meet spending used to be simply buying Visa gift cards at the grocery store or CVS. This time of year, you could pay your taxes with a credit card.

... an easy way to get around this is to purchase the AMZN gift cards at a grocery store along with your other groceries, and it all just gets lumped together and coded as retail/food/grocery purchase.

One thing would be to pre-pay some bills you have that are payable by credit card.

I've also prepaid utility bills into the future and normally pay car insurance as a lump sum. Haven't paid the fee to pay taxes with a card because I don't like paying extra to get the bonus, but that can be worthwhile if it's the only option.

 

[audreyh1]

This is a good reminder. I have several annual insurance bills due this month, and a card I just acquired last month that will give me 20,000 reward points for $3000 spend in the first 60 days.

Good thing I use a credit card to pay my insurance bills.

I think I've calculated that the points convert to cash or statement credit at 80%.