Crazy Expat Plan

[CaliforniaMan]

There are a number of expat forums that you might consider joining. There you can ask expats via the forum or private messages about their actual experiences. For many destinations: InterNations.com, expat-blog.com. For Cambodia specifically: cambodiaexpatsonline.com, khmer440.com, and a recent addition thekhmerforum.com.

I spend a good deal of time in Cambodia and love it here, although I don't live here full time. Considering you are living on 20K in Las Vegas, you might be able to do 12K in Cambodia. I would not want to do it on that little, but you are young and hey, life is not only about money, it is about experiences too. There are many expats here that have a good life on relatively little. You can also get a job here teaching English. I would plan to get the TEFL certificate if you want to that. Also could volunteer for a while at an NGO then transition to a paid position. Note, you won't make much, and you may work long hours 6 days a week. Another reason to check out the forums is that you can make contacts here before you try to relocate. Good luck whatever you decide!

 

[retirementguy1]

There are a number of expat forums that you might consider joining. There you can ask expats via the forum or private messages about their actual experiences. For many destinations: InterNations.com, expat-blog.com. For Cambodia specifically: cambodiaexpatsonline.com, khmer440.com, and a recent addition thekhmerforum.com.

I spend a good deal of time in Cambodia and love it here, although I don't live here full time. Considering you are living on 20K in Las Vegas, you might be able to do 12K in Cambodia. I would not want to do it on that little, but you are young and hey, life is not only about money, it is about experiences too. There are many expats here that have a good life on relatively little. You can also get a job here teaching English. I would plan to get the TEFL certificate if you want to that. Also could volunteer for a while at an NGO then transition to a paid position. Note, you won't make much, and you may work long hours 6 days a week. Another reason to check out the forums is that you can make contacts here before you try to relocate. Good luck whatever you decide!

Thanks!

 

[kramer]

Hi RetirementGuy1, I have lived in several of the places you are looking to go.

If you really want to do this, I would treat it as a temporary gig or traveling phase unless you somehow managed to start making serious cash overseas.

A couple of questions:

* Have you ever traveled to any of these places before? Do you have international travel experience?

* Do you have a Bachelor's Degree? This is an important credential if you want to teach English (and I think it is required for a CELTA certification and in many cases for a work permit). The best source I found for learning about the teaching English market is Dave's ESL Cafe. In fact, it made me NOT want to do it, although I strongly considered it. There is just a ton of useful info there posted by others.

Another point I will add: Even though I had enough money to properly early retire, I thought I would have to work to really immerse myself in the culture and get to know local people. For me, at least, this turned out to NOT be the case. In fact, it would have just gotten in the way in that it would have taken so much time.

 

[Aus_E_Expat]

I am not suggesting you will fail - but I do think my thought and research may be required.

I have lived as an expat in S E Asia for many years and have met many people trying to do what yo have done.

I think you will need a job of some type - just retiring is unlikely to be successful unless you are very wealthy and have a support network in the area where you retire.

I continue to work in S E Asia although I could easily afford to retire as I think without a job it is difficult to exist in this environment.

 

[heeyy_joe]

I appreciate and consider everyone's comments but if you offer an opinion, back it up with some evidence. I just haven't seen any from you. I'm not trying to start a fight, you just haven't offered any evidence.....Tell me why I'm on a fool's errand.

Evidence? - You're the one calling it crazy!

 

[retirementguy1]

Evidence? - You're the one calling it crazy!

Okay, you got me on that one! lol

 

[retirementguy1]

I do have a BS degree and it would probably wise to get the TEFL certification before I leave, just as a plan B. I've read some blogs on teaching English and it made me not want to do it either. lol


I have spent a couple weeks in Thailand and really enjoyed it once we got out of the main tourist areas. I've also backpacked through 15 countries in Europe. I played in an orchestra in Italy for a couple of summers as well. I love Europe but my dollar won't stretch far enough there.

 

[Bamaman]

Unless you have $ millions, a 32 year old that doesn't work is called "unemployed".

I understand your getting burned out in a hard working job. There's nothing wrong to take some time off and seeing the world. Having an adventure is great.

There's also nothing wrong with taking some of your savings, going back to school and earning the skills where you can work in a career that pays better than the food service industry. You might also be more fulfilled and feel better about yourself.

But whatever you do, do it now. Look up and you'll be 40. Look up and you'll be 60. Time passes so fast the older you get.

 

[butterfly]

We are planning to live as expats but we will have a larger income stream as we are 2A2C.

Check out these blogs for lower COL examples:

Cost of Living in Chiang Mai, Thailand

https://www.nomadicmatt.com/travel-tips/how-to-travel-the-world-on-50-usd/

Lifestyle and Travel in Southeast Asia | Living in Bangkok Blog

Quit Your Job - Sell Your Stuff - Travel Abroad | Tieland to Thailand

 

[bad_LNIP]

Need to be careful in the P.I. Terrorist cells are ramped, especially if you do not blend in

I think it depends on the part of the PI you are in, but Mindanao is NOT the place you want to be, unless you are rolling out with some gun trucks and a Special forces A team, and I'm not kidding.

I would echo what others said about the 4% withdrawl rate. I don't think that would work in your scenario. I think you need to get a higher rate of return and engage in some risk management, which may require more of your time and study on portfolio management than you initially thought and probably requires some leverage/derivatives. If you aren't comfortable with that, this strategy may not be for you.

I am a closed end fund fan myself which provide higher monthly income to buying discounted funds for immediate Alpha. I have seen some portfolios structured where they actually have lower Betas than the market with similar returns.

I'd probably look at Latin America, perhaps Ecuador, not Costa Rica, and maybe Panama. I've been to Ecuador, and it is stupid cheap. I don't know about living on 12k cheap, like I said, I think you are going to need more income from the portfolio.

Not an expat yet, but I am in preparation/investigation mode.

 

[CaliforniaMan]

We are planning to live as expats but we will have a larger income stream as we are 2A2C.

Check out these blogs for lower COL examples:

Cost of Living in Chiang Mai, Thailand

https://www.nomadicmatt.com/travel-tips/how-to-travel-the-world-on-50-usd/

Lifestyle and Travel in Southeast Asia | Living in Bangkok Blog

Quit Your Job - Sell Your Stuff - Travel Abroad | Tieland to Thailand

One sees these types of articles and blogs all over the internet, usually by people who want to sell their book, or drive people to their blog for the advertising revenue. Take all with a grain of salt. Nobody lives in SE Asia on what these people tell you. You can survive, after a fashion. But what happens when you get sick, you want a western doctor? Most expats in SE Asia realize that they will loose 10+ years of their lifespan. You want to travel a bit or just sit by the riverside all day? Living with a roommate might be nice for a short stay, but living that way? What about if you get a girlfriend, she might want to go out for a movie and dinner. You think she wants to sit on a plastic stool at the local noodle cart or go to the theater at the new western style mall and a sit down restaurant. And prices are rising here. Everything imported costs more than in the U.S. People want a good life, you won't last long living on the budget in these silly articles.

 

[kramer]

I do have a BS degree and it would probably wise to get the TEFL certification before I leave, just as a plan B. I've read some blogs on teaching English and it made me not want to do it either. lol


I have spent a couple weeks in Thailand and really enjoyed it once we got out of the main tourist areas. I've also backpacked through 15 countries in Europe. I played in an orchestra in Italy for a couple of summers as well. I love Europe but my dollar won't stretch far enough there.

You have both travel experience and a Bachelor's Degree, good to hear.

The credential you want for teaching English is the CELTA, and it is best to take it in your destination country. The course is the same, no matter where it is taught (a grueling 4 week course that will take most of your time).

I think your financial portfolio is just way too thin for someone your age to retire or even semi-retire abroad in transient jobs. And, unfortunately, most of the work opportunities you will come across are low paying.

I would use this as a chance to visit various places and size them up with respect to possibly trying longer stints (or even retirement) in the future. That is what I did when I retired (at age 41) but it would have been better if I had traveled to more places before retirement. On my first year of retirement, I took a 7 month trip through Southeast Asia and a 2 month trip to Colombia.

 

[sailor]

Go teach english in Japan for a couple years ... You can really Bank some more cash ... Maybe 40-50k usd per year

I think you are overselling teaching English in Japan.
While relatively easy to find job, most of them do not pay more than 250k yen per month ($2k USD). And you will spend some (most?) of it.
I have two friends teaching there and they both said the website below describes the reality pretty good:
Teaching in Japan and Some Common Myths About Living and Teaching in Japan.

 

[Throwdownmyaceinthehole]

Watch the documentary Living on one dollar- it's currently on Netflix. It may have you rethink the live like a local lifestyle. You may want to check out the Backpackers Visa in Australia, but you have to work. The folks we met doing that were having a great adventure.

 

[retirementguy1]

Watch the documentary Living on one dollar- it's currently on Netflix. It may have you rethink the live like a local lifestyle. You may want to check out the Backpackers Visa in Australia, but you have to work. The folks we met doing that were having a great adventure.

I just finished the documentary, good flick but I don't think any of us are advocating living in voluntary poverty. Living like the locals can simply mean eating local foods, cheap rent, riding a scooter instead of maintaining a car, etc.

I looked into the backpacker's visa and it looks like you need to be under 30yo. Bummer...

 

[retirementguy1]

We are planning to live as expats but we will have a larger income stream as we are 2A2C.

Check out these blogs for lower COL examples:

Cost of Living in Chiang Mai, Thailand

https://www.nomadicmatt.com/travel-tips/how-to-travel-the-world-on-50-usd/

Lifestyle and Travel in Southeast Asia | Living in Bangkok Blog

Quit Your Job - Sell Your Stuff - Travel Abroad | Tieland to Thailand

Thanks for the blogs. I read many of them. I don't think they are lying about expenses. Generally, travelers are honest people because they rely on the honesty of strangers. That is how the world works. "Anyone who runs a scam, you are running a scam on yourself."

 

[butterfly]

Watch the documentary Living on one dollar- it's currently on Netflix. It may have you rethink the live like a local lifestyle. You may want to check out the Backpackers Visa in Australia, but you have to work. The folks we met doing that were having a great adventure.

Australia is not a cheap place to live, 12k pa would not allow you to live very well at all. Even as a backpacker. A option would be to work on a farm or do WOOFing, but that is hard work picking fruit etc.

(as an Aussie, trust me; if you find the USA expensive, Australia will not be the place to ER with not much money)

I would also check out the ERE and MMM blogs/forums OP. their idea of retirement is to be able to do work of your choosing along the way to top up your funds, so a different definition that what many people have.

 

[Hyper]

I say go for it. Life is much too short and you'll prob regret it if you don't. Wish I wasn't such a chicken about going out of the US.

 

[ESRwannabe]

OP, I don't think your idea sounds crazy. I have considered doing the same before.

However what I have decided to do is go for early semi-retirement instead of completely retiring. So, in my case my goal is to be able to pay for half of my living expenses via investments and the other half from work.

Financially this is a much easier goal and its also probably more realistic psychologically... What I have realized is that work is a huge part of my socializing/friendships/camaraderie, etc. Like most people I spend so much time a work that it is my main "social circle". I'm not married and don't have a girlfriend. Otherwise it might not be as important. Of course I could always change that, but I do have a bit of a hermit personality and enjoy having a lot of time by myself.

Stopping work completely would probably not be healthy for me. Luckily I don't mind working, I just don't like how time consuming it is. I would like to have more time for other things and not feel like work is such an obligation.

Anyway, since my goal is ESR, I believe I can achieve this easily staying in the US. There is no need to move to another country to be able to pull this off by my mid 40s, which is what I am targeting.

I am actually 88% of the way to my goal already (age 39 this year). My taxable stock dividends already bring in 88% of what I need for 50% of living expenses. I have roughly 50% of my investments in taxable and the other 50% in 401k and Roth IRA.

Oddly, I still don't feel like I have enough money to pursue ESR yet... I may end up being a perpetual OMY person.

P.S. If you want to travel I think working as an english language teacher would be an awesome way to do it. You would make plenty to living on and could leave your investments alone to grow more. If I end up wanting to expat for a while, that is the first option I will look into.

 

[retirementguy1]

OP, I don't think your idea sounds crazy. I have considered doing the same before.

However what I have decided to do is go for early semi-retirement instead of completely retiring. So, in my case my goal is to be able to pay for half of my living expenses via investments and the other half from work.

Financially this is a much easier goal and its also probably more realistic psychologically... What I have realized is that work is a huge part of my socializing/friendships/camaraderie, etc. Like most people I spend so much time a work that it is my main "social circle". I'm not married and don't have a girlfriend. Otherwise it might not be as important. Of course I could always change that, but
I do have a bit of a hermit personality and enjoy having a lot of time by myself.

Stopping work completely would probably not be healthy for me. Luckily I don't mind working, I just don't like how time consuming it is. I would like to have more time for other things and not feel like work is such an obligation.

Anyway, since my goal is ESR, I believe I can achieve this easily staying in the US. There is no need to move to another country to be able to pull this off by my mid 40s, which is what I am targeting.

I am actually 88% of the way to my goal already (age 39 this year). My taxable stock dividends already bring in 88% of what I need for 50% of living expenses. I have roughly 50% of my investments in taxable and the other 50% in 401k and Roth IRA.

Oddly, I still don't feel like I have enough money to pursue ESR yet... I may end up being a perpetual OMY person.

P.S. If you want to travel I think working as an english language teacher would be an awesome way to do it. You would make plenty to living on and could leave your investments alone to grow more. If I end up wanting to expat for a while, that is the first option I will look into.

Thanks for such a thoughtful and honest post. I am a bit introspective myself. Most of my small social appetite is fulfilled at work but since I work nights I am at work when most people are socializing. I think that is holding me back.

I found Bob Clyatt's book on the shelf of the local library which led me to this forum. I was on the ER path before then. I felt like I've been running a sprint and a marathon at the same time for several years. I just feel worn out. The unique thing about Clyatt's book is that it deals with the psychological as well as the financial. That is the only time I've seen that. I should reread it.


Also, nice avatar. Nobody suffers from depression when you are being chased by a bear. Am I right?

 

[ESRwannabe]

Also, nice avatar. Nobody suffers from depression when you are being chased by a bear. Am I right?

I'm not sure where I found that avatar picture but it was back during the great recession crisis when everything was going crazy. I thought the picture was hilarious. So decided to start using it as my avatar.

The old guy is really hauling it to get away from the bear market lol.

 

[retirementguy1]

I'm not sure where I found that avatar picture but it was back during the great recession crisis when everything was going crazy. I thought the picture was hilarious. So decided to start using it as my avatar.

The old guy is really hauling it to get away from the bear market lol.

The depression quote is from Adam Carolla. Obviously a metaphor. The bear is different for everyone.

 

[Unpaintedhuffhines]

retirementguy1, I say go for it. Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Raising Arizona: "Oh, H.I, you're young and you've got your health...what do you want with a job?" Nobody (including you) knows if your money will hold out, but if you live a frugal lifestyle, you could last a long time. And it's not as if $300K will vanish in a week. You will find out it is either working or it isn't and have a long time to plan if you see that it isn't going to pan out.

A friend of mine has a son that does something similar, but has nowhere near $300K. He works in the US for a while (a year or two), saves his money, then goes somewhere (this time its central America), putters around, finds a job if he needs more money, and lives as a local, with all the good and bad that comes with that. Some view this as insane, but life is way too short to not follow your dream. Just ask yourself: what's the worst that could happen? You find out that you don't have enough money to last forever? Well, then that means get a job and make more money. Sounds like you have quite the adventure ahead.

 

[panhead]

Hi all, I am 32 years old and I work in food service in Las Vegas. I am burnt out and have always wanted to live abroad. My net worth is $300k. With a 4% withdrawal rate I would have $12k a year to live on which goes pretty far in some countries. I'm considering Puerto Rico, SE Asia (Thailand to Vietnam), Latin and South America (Panama, Nicaragua).

I am open to working part-time. I could treat this like a sabbatical and if things don't work out financially I can always come back to the US and work.

I also would like to hear from expats and what their expenses are.

Any and all thoughts are appreciated.

Many of the posters on this board are in technology or a field that if you take any significant time away it can be very difficult to return to the same field. Since you are in food service, my thoughts are this would not be the case with you.

You are 32 years old and from what I can tell, with no obligations (wife, kids, etc).

You have some significant resources that, while unlikely enough for a permanent retirement, can fund a carefully planned adventure for a number of years.

Possible negative: if where you are currently employed offers substantial upward mobility in the (near) future including wage increases, you may be sacrificing some serious income. Only you know the answer to this.

Another possible negative: If you are able to carefully swing this for an extended period of time, your social security later in life will be seriously compromised, and it is possible you will need to live your elder years on an Austerity budget, and/or work until you drop. My 32 year old self had a significantly different image of my 65 year old self than my 45 year old self does currently (hope that made sense). That being said, if at 45 you start to worry about these kinds of things, there is still time to return stateside and work for 20 or so years to build up the nest egg and social security for a more secure traditional retirement.

In your position, with your apparent desires, I would probably sell all of my stateside posessions and hop a plane. I really don't see much of a downside here, as long as all my points above are accurate. Don't leave anything here to add to expenses, no storage lockers or anything.

Just be prepared to come back stateside if things don't work out. If you are willing to live like the locals in low cost areas, and you can find some work, who knows how long you could swing this. Be careful about finding work though, make sure you know, understand, and follow the local laws.

Let us know if you go for it, and please stay in touch on the board if you do. I, and likely others, would like to learn from your adventures.

Also, There are others that have done what you want to do. The first ones that come to mind are who I consider some of the pioneers of early retirement, Paul and Vicki Terhorst. They wrote a book, "Cashing in on the American Dream" somewhere in the 80s. Also, Bill and Akaisha Kaderli. Both of these couples make some money off of writing articles and blogs, but you might check them out, as they've both been doing the expat thing for a long time.

Good luck!

-Pan

 

[mikelish]

look into Chiang Mai, Thailand


Many expats live there for $6,000 per year or less