Die With Zero - Book

[Flyfish1]

Part way through the book , Die With Zero.
Interesting idea, optimize your spending throughout your retirement to live your best life. Seems a bit risky to me since you never really know your ultimate longevity. Anyone else read it yet?

 

[Bigdawg]

Part way through the book , Die With Zero.
Interesting idea, optimize your spending throughout your retirement to live your best life. Seems a bit risky to me since you never really know your ultimate longevity. Anyone else read it yet?

Yes, almost done. I like the idea of doing what you want at the appropriate time in your life. The example about back packing around Europe for the summer. Great idea at 21. Not so great at 55. I don't think "Die with Zero" is the actual idea I am getting from the book.

 

[target2019]

https://www.diewithzerobook.com/welcome

Looks interesting enough, so I ordered. I promise I won't go to Zero!

 

[Car-Guy]

If inflation gets bad enough, I could get there.

 

[old medic]

Ill need to find this book? My Dad always said he wanted spend his money wisely and only bounce one check..... the one to the undertaker....
Summer break 10th and 11th grade I took my backpack and rode my thumb all over the east coast from NC to Maine.

 

[pb4uski]

A rip-off of the "Die Broke" book from many years ago?

 

[audreyh1]

I do prefer to optimize current spending, but not to draw down to zero. Half would be OK.

I take as much out of my portfolio as my withdrawal rate allows even if I don’t spend it all right away, because I plan to spend it soon.

So author Bill Perkins is legendary? As an energy trader I guess.

 

[Markola]

Thanks for the book tip. I’m definitely reading that, and it’s nice to see a person of color writing in the personal finance space.

Our plan is actually built to spend the portfolio to zero at 92 (we have no heirs). However, that does not mean we plan to run out of money, given full SS, millions in home equity building up over the next decades, and daily expenses declining as normal as we age.

 

[ERD50]

Part way through the book , Die With Zero.
Interesting idea, optimize your spending throughout your retirement to live your best life. Seems a bit risky to me since you never really know your ultimate longevity. Anyone else read it yet?

Reminds me of the old joke: "My Uncle knew how long he was going to live, the judge told him!"

Buried (no pun intended) in just about all the portfolio withdrawal optimization conversations here is the theme of "dying broke". And that theme is balanced with " I don't want to run out my portfolio and live on cat food in my 90's".

I'd agree we need to keep an eye towards doing some things while we are able. It's all a balancing act, I'm not sure how much light a book can shed on that.

-ERD50

 

[FANOFJESUS]

You would be surprised what raising your spending to 4.5% does to your portfolio.

 

[MarieIG]

Truly - this is not a goal.

 

[sengsational]

For those who have a big discretionary budget and plan level spending, they're likely to leave a lot on the table. I need to revisit the plan I had when I retired over 7 years ago. Mr Market has been kind to me, and so the portfolio has not gone down so far. I've been more conservative than I've needed to be, I think, so even if the book provides a nudge to doing something extra that's fulfilling, it's probably worth the read. Talking about spending more... I put a hold on it with the library

 

[Time2]

For those who have a big discretionary budget and plan level spending, they're likely to leave a lot on the table. I need to revisit the plan I had when I retired over 7 years ago. Mr Market has been kind to me, and so the portfolio has not gone down so far. I've been more conservative than I've needed to be, I think, so even if the book provides a nudge to doing something extra that's fulfilling, it's probably worth the read. Talking about spending more... I put a hold on it with the library

These are the good times, if things change twenty years from now, when new people look back in the archives and see all the people that did so well from 2010 to 2020 and retired so well, it may be very discouraging for them. We are a lucky lot!

BTW, I worked for mine.

 

[RobbieB]

We've been spending (according to SWR stuff) at an unsustainable rate ever since I retired. Say 5 to7 percent. Been retired 7 years now and have more than when I started. Net worth up 38% and investable assets up 43%.

New cars, landscaping, sheds, first class air and hotels, wedding and limo'ed in the guests and of course wagyu, lobsters, truffles and sushi grade fish.

I keep trying, but I'm making it faster than I can spend it -

 

[Markola]

You would be surprised what raising your spending to 4.5% does to your portfolio.

And it’s amazing what not getting locked into spending a certain % while staying flexible with a variable percentage withdrawal plan does for one’s ability to retire early.

 

[ERD50]

You would be surprised what raising your spending to 4.5% does to your portfolio.

OK, surprise me. Does raising your spending to 4.5% improve your portfolio? That would surprise me!

IOW, can you flesh out that post a little? Maybe some examples?

-ERD50

 

[harley]

We've been spending (according to SWR stuff) at an unsustainable rate ever since I retired. Say 5 to7 percent. Been retired 7 years now and have more than when I started. Net worth up 38% and investable assets up 43%.

New cars, landscaping, sheds, first class air and hotels, wedding and limo'ed in the guests and of course wagyu, lobsters, truffles and sushi grade fish.

I keep trying, but I'm making it faster than I can spend it -

You've also been living those years during a major bull market. Are you planning to maintain your "unsustainable" WR if we go into a longish term bear market, or even a 70s style slowdown? Or would you just cut the spending rate during the less exuberant years? Or have you gotten so far ahead that 10 years of little to no returns won't impact your spending/estate plans? Just curious.

 

[FANOFJESUS]

OK, surprise me. Does raising your spending to 4.5% improve your portfolio? That would surprise me!

IOW, can you flesh out that post a little? Maybe some examples?

-ERD50

No it does not improve your portfolio. It does help if you have no heirs. 5% also can be good if you have no heirs.

 

[RobbieB]

You've also been living those years during a major bull market. Are you planning to maintain your "unsustainable" WR if we go into a longish term bear market, or even a 70s style slowdown? Or would you just cut the spending rate during the less exuberant years? Or have you gotten so far ahead that 10 years of little to no returns won't impact your spending/estate plans? Just curious.

Don't have any plans, just do it all on the fly. I was a bit concerned that I was way over the "line" but hey, why worry eh? If things cool off so will we. Kids will be done with school in a couple years including 1 Phd and 1 masters, wife is getting closer to SS and Medicare too and I'll be going on my own SS account too.

 

[GravitySucks]

Don't have any plans, just do it all on the fly. I was a bit concerned that I was way over the "line" but hey, why worry eh? If things cool off so will we. Kids will be done with school in a couple years including 1 Phd and 1 masters, wife is getting closer to SS and Medicare too and I'll be going on my own SS account too.

We've been lucky. You can either enjoy your luck or worry that it's not going to last.
I'm happier enjoying it while we can.
Our favorite oyster bar is now fully opened. We are taking full advantage - to hell with the cost.

 

[RobbieB]

Yeah Baby!

Belly up at the oyster bar in Carmel for a couple dozen and then a fried dozen is a fav!

 

[FIREd_2015]

Thanks for the lead. I put in a hold request at our local library.

 

[MichaelB]

The challenge I see with the idea of “dying with zero” is how life will be at “zero minus a few years”. In the years before running out, it will be painfully obvious that the end of the portfolio is imminent and unavoidable, and I fear this will generate unmanageable stress. It will also motivate me to dramatically reduce spending. So, instead of having a strategy that allows me to enjoy “all the money”, it will instead ensure the final years will be fearful and unhappy, and probably impoverished.

I’d rather have a plan that lets me spend today and at the same time ensure my future needs are also provided for. If that means leaving money behind, fine.

 

[braumeister]

I’d rather have a plan that lets me spend today and at the same time ensure my future needs are also provided for. If that means leaving money behind, fine.

Forget that!
I'm still planning to take it all with me.

 

[friar1610]

A rip-off of the "Die Broke" book from many years ago?

That’s what I was wondering. Read that years ago. You end up with an annuity to see you through your final years, IIRC.