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06-05-2021, 04:37 AM
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#1
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Coastal CT
Posts: 228
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Die With Zero - Book
Part way through the book , Die With Zero.
Interesting idea, optimize your spending throughout your retirement to live your best life. Seems a bit risky to me since you never really know your ultimate longevity. Anyone else read it yet?
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06-05-2021, 05:40 AM
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#2
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyfish1
Part way through the book , Die With Zero.
Interesting idea, optimize your spending throughout your retirement to live your best life. Seems a bit risky to me since you never really know your ultimate longevity. Anyone else read it yet?
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Yes, almost done. I like the idea of doing what you want at the appropriate time in your life. The example about back packing around Europe for the summer. Great idea at 21. Not so great at 55. I don't think "Die with Zero" is the actual idea I am getting from the book.
__________________
-Big Dawg-FI since 9/2010. Failed ER in 2015. 2/15/2023=DONE! "Blow that dough"-Robbie
" People say I'm lazy, dreaming my life away Well, they give me all kinds of advice designed to enlighten me When I tell them that I'm doing fine watching shadows on the wall "Don't you miss the big time, boy. You're no longer on the ball" -John Lennon-
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06-05-2021, 06:02 AM
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#3
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: On a hill in the Pine Barrens
Posts: 9,669
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https://www.diewithzerobook.com/welcome
Looks interesting enough, so I ordered. I promise I won't go to Zero!
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06-05-2021, 06:13 AM
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#4
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,836
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If inflation gets bad enough, I could get there.
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20's "something" mind, trapped in a 70's "something" body
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06-05-2021, 06:16 AM
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#5
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 1,463
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Ill need to find this book? My Dad always said he wanted spend his money wisely and only bounce one check..... the one to the undertaker....
Summer break 10th and 11th grade I took my backpack and rode my thumb all over the east coast from NC to Maine.
__________________
Went from EMS to PDN
Earn Money Sleeping/ Paid Doing Nothing
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06-05-2021, 06:16 AM
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#6
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,204
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A rip-off of the "Die Broke" book from many years ago?
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
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06-05-2021, 06:45 AM
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#7
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 37,931
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I do prefer to optimize current spending, but not to draw down to zero. Half would be OK.
I take as much out of my portfolio as my withdrawal rate allows even if I don’t spend it all right away, because I plan to spend it soon.
So author Bill Perkins is legendary? As an energy trader I guess.
__________________
Retired since summer 1999.
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06-05-2021, 07:14 AM
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#8
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 3,927
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Thanks for the book tip. I’m definitely reading that, and it’s nice to see a person of color writing in the personal finance space.
Our plan is actually built to spend the portfolio to zero at 92 (we have no heirs). However, that does not mean we plan to run out of money, given full SS, millions in home equity building up over the next decades, and daily expenses declining as normal as we age.
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06-05-2021, 08:43 AM
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#9
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyfish1
Part way through the book , Die With Zero.
Interesting idea, optimize your spending throughout your retirement to live your best life. Seems a bit risky to me since you never really know your ultimate longevity. Anyone else read it yet?
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Reminds me of the old joke: "My Uncle knew how long he was going to live, the judge told him!"
Buried (no pun intended) in just about all the portfolio withdrawal optimization conversations here is the theme of "dying broke". And that theme is balanced with " I don't want to run out my portfolio and live on cat food in my 90's".
I'd agree we need to keep an eye towards doing some things while we are able. It's all a balancing act, I'm not sure how much light a book can shed on that.
-ERD50
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06-05-2021, 08:44 AM
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#10
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,563
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You would be surprised what raising your spending to 4.5% does to your portfolio.
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06-05-2021, 10:01 AM
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#11
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 5,598
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Truly - this is not a goal.
__________________
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without.
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06-05-2021, 10:13 AM
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#12
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,622
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For those who have a big discretionary budget and plan level spending, they're likely to leave a lot on the table. I need to revisit the plan I had when I retired over 7 years ago. Mr Market has been kind to me, and so the portfolio has not gone down so far. I've been more conservative than I've needed to be, I think, so even if the book provides a nudge to doing something extra that's fulfilling, it's probably worth the read. Talking about spending more... I put a hold on it with the library
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06-05-2021, 10:47 AM
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#13
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 3,652
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These are the good times, if things change twenty years from now, when new people look back in the archives and see all the people that did so well from 2010 to 2020 and retired so well, it may be very discouraging for them. We are a lucky lot!
BTW, I worked for mine.
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06-05-2021, 10:57 AM
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#14
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 8,968
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We've been spending (according to SWR stuff) at an unsustainable rate ever since I retired. Say 5 to7 percent. Been retired 7 years now and have more than when I started. Net worth up 38% and investable assets up 43%.
New cars, landscaping, sheds, first class air and hotels, wedding and limo'ed in the guests and of course wagyu, lobsters, truffles and sushi grade fish.
I keep trying, but I'm making it faster than I can spend it -
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06-05-2021, 11:01 AM
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#15
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 3,927
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Die With Zero - Book
Quote:
Originally Posted by FANOFJESUS
You would be surprised what raising your spending to 4.5% does to your portfolio.
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And it’s amazing what not getting locked into spending a certain % while staying flexible with a variable percentage withdrawal plan does for one’s ability to retire early.
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06-05-2021, 11:30 AM
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#16
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FANOFJESUS
You would be surprised what raising your spending to 4.5% does to your portfolio.
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OK, surprise me. Does raising your spending to 4.5% improve your portfolio? That would surprise me!
IOW, can you flesh out that post a little? Maybe some examples?
-ERD50
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06-05-2021, 11:58 AM
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#17
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2008
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 8,764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieB
We've been spending (according to SWR stuff) at an unsustainable rate ever since I retired. Say 5 to7 percent. Been retired 7 years now and have more than when I started. Net worth up 38% and investable assets up 43%.
New cars, landscaping, sheds, first class air and hotels, wedding and limo'ed in the guests and of course wagyu, lobsters, truffles and sushi grade fish.
I keep trying, but I'm making it faster than I can spend it -
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You've also been living those years during a major bull market. Are you planning to maintain your "unsustainable" WR if we go into a longish term bear market, or even a 70s style slowdown? Or would you just cut the spending rate during the less exuberant years? Or have you gotten so far ahead that 10 years of little to no returns won't impact your spending/estate plans? Just curious.
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Anonymous (not Will Rogers or Sam Clemens)
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
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06-05-2021, 12:16 PM
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#18
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50
OK, surprise me. Does raising your spending to 4.5% improve your portfolio? That would surprise me!
IOW, can you flesh out that post a little? Maybe some examples?
-ERD50
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No it does not improve your portfolio. It does help if you have no heirs. 5% also can be good if you have no heirs.
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06-05-2021, 12:26 PM
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#19
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 8,968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harley
You've also been living those years during a major bull market. Are you planning to maintain your "unsustainable" WR if we go into a longish term bear market, or even a 70s style slowdown? Or would you just cut the spending rate during the less exuberant years? Or have you gotten so far ahead that 10 years of little to no returns won't impact your spending/estate plans? Just curious.
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Don't have any plans, just do it all on the fly. I was a bit concerned that I was way over the "line" but hey, why worry eh? If things cool off so will we. Kids will be done with school in a couple years including 1 Phd and 1 masters, wife is getting closer to SS and Medicare too and I'll be going on my own SS account too.
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06-05-2021, 12:58 PM
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#20
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Syracuse
Posts: 3,501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieB
Don't have any plans, just do it all on the fly. I was a bit concerned that I was way over the "line" but hey, why worry eh? If things cool off so will we. Kids will be done with school in a couple years including 1 Phd and 1 masters, wife is getting closer to SS and Medicare too and I'll be going on my own SS account too.
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We've been lucky. You can either enjoy your luck or worry that it's not going to last.
I'm happier enjoying it while we can.
Our favorite oyster bar is now fully opened. We are taking full advantage - to hell with the cost.
__________________
“No, not rich. I am a poor man with money, which is not the same thing"
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