"Early Retirement Extreme" forum

[Chuckanut]

The guy can retire whenever he wants to. I just don't want to hear any complaints when he hits the SS Full Retirement Age and sees how small his check is.

 

[FANOFJESUS]

This reminds of younger me a decade ago. I thought I could retire with $600K by moving to extreme LCOL country. I am glad I did not take that path because I would have sacrificed my kids' life for mine. And couldn't have been happy knowing that every day. But then again, hindsight is always 20/20.

Good friend of mine charted the path I was planning and he just came back to homeland with no money left in coffers. I am glad I didn't do it.

Curious what happened to him? Why did he not make it?

 

[mrWinter]

Someone suggested in a reply to one of my threads that I check out the "Early Retirement Extreme" forum.

On there, I found a 32 year old man, married, with 3 very young children, ages 9, 8, and 3, asking if he could retire NOW with $800K and no debt. The consensus was that he's ready now but should consider working "a little longer" to create a pad to cover the increased amount his kids will cost him as they grow up.

YIKES!!! And here I am worrying about whether my DH and I are ready to retire at age 61/57 with about that amount!

Either I'm way off base or he's in for a rough future. I think I'll stick to this forum, where people are either more reasonable or at least more skeptical.

I guess a lot of it depends on what that person means by 'retire'. If they mean quit their unliked career and do their own thing, work on some side project, get a less paying job they enjoy, then ok maybe. But if they mean sleeping in, reading a lot of books, going to the beach, traveling, farting around in the garden etc. and never earning a dime again, then yikes indeed. Also, as one of their kids, boy I'd be pissed that he couldn't be bothered to lift a finger anymore at age 32 to maybe help pay for college or get any foot up in life. Is Early Retirement Extreme the new PC term for welfare queen?

 

[seabourne]

+1 - and Jacob's did for me, after a while. I had long had a slight problem with his approach, in that it felt overly academic and analytical. I sensed a whiff of inauthenticity in the way he presented his lifestyle. It felt as if he were merely performing a scientific experiment, as opposed to actually living the life. Yes, my sensitivities are a bit too finely tuned or, as my ex-fiancee would say, "I'm very picky when it comes to people", but it didn't come as a surprise when he announced that he was re-entering the world of work, as a highly-paid quant trader. Think of that - to go from making your own rake, to earning a big wad of money. Bit of a change eh?

I really like clever people, but also dislike emotional dishonesty - and I felt that there was a bit of that going on with both Pete and Jacob. Actually, a LOT of it going on with Pete, and a bit with Jacob.

For what it's worth, I've always been somewhat turned off by Pete's shtick, but while Jacob's approach is significantly more extreme than I prefer, he does do it honestly. A lot of it is him being a hyper-analytic person with a low socialization need. I enjoy going to eat out, he's the sort who hates menus because it doesn't give him time to find the optimal solution. My wife and I enjoy travel, though not much is jet-setting, but he'd rather be woodworking in the basement than spending a week in Nice. As I recall, he only did the quant thing for about 2 years - he was doing the algo type analysis for fun and wanted to see if he could get it to work for trading, didn't get what he wanted from it, and left. Other than probably spending more on commuting, I don't think that his spending ever changed, because he'd solved that problem and didn't need to change anything or revisit the issue.

Anyway, I've found the ERE site interesting, but often in a manner of looking at the extreme options and figuring out what I care about cutting and what doesn't matter and can be reduced without much effort or concern on my part. That sort of analysis certainly helped up my saving rate while I was working and probably helped me get to retirement last year before I hit 40.

 

[LARS]

You have to sacrifice if you want to FIRE! LBYM and all that kind of stuff.

ETA: You spendthrift you.

Everyone has to "sacrifice" (make monetary trades off) no matter who (or how wealthy) they are: excepting the Bill Gates of the world. So, again, that leaves just about everyone.

 

[Retch The Grate]

Jacob used to post here I seem to recall as I think that's how I first got pointed at his website and back when he was actively working towards his ERE goal I don't remember anybody here having any major problems with him or his blog. Some people got a bit snippy when he decided to go do the quant thing, but in general he's been mostly regarded as a more extreme frugality person doing his version of FIRE.

 

[Major Tom]

For what it's worth, I've always been somewhat turned off by Pete's shtick, but while Jacob's approach is significantly more extreme than I prefer, he does do it honestly. A lot of it is him being a hyper-analytic person with a low socialization need. I enjoy going to eat out, he's the sort who hates menus because it doesn't give him time to find the optimal solution. My wife and I enjoy travel, though not much is jet-setting, but he'd rather be woodworking in the basement than spending a week in Nice. As I recall, he only did the quant thing for about 2 years - he was doing the algo type analysis for fun and wanted to see if he could get it to work for trading, didn't get what he wanted from it, and left. Other than probably spending more on commuting, I don't think that his spending ever changed, because he'd solved that problem and didn't need to change anything or revisit the issue.

Anyway, I've found the ERE site interesting, but often in a manner of looking at the extreme options and figuring out what I care about cutting and what doesn't matter and can be reduced without much effort or concern on my part. That sort of analysis certainly helped up my saving rate while I was working and probably helped me get to retirement last year before I hit 40.

Good points, and I may have judged Jacob a bit harshly. I don't think I've misread Pete though. The attitude that radiates from that site gets up my nose

 

[NW-Bound]

For what it's worth, I've always been somewhat turned off by Pete's shtick, but while Jacob's approach is significantly more extreme than I prefer, he does do it honestly. A lot of it is him being a hyper-analytic person with a low socialization need. I enjoy going to eat out, he's the sort who hates menus because it doesn't give him time to find the optimal solution. My wife and I enjoy travel, though not much is jet-setting, but he'd rather be woodworking in the basement than spending a week in Nice. As I recall, he only did the quant thing for about 2 years - he was doing the algo type analysis for fun and wanted to see if he could get it to work for trading, didn't get what he wanted from it, and left...

Jacob has not updated his blog since he took the quant job, so I did not know what he has been up to.

He's a smart guy, and would not be sitting twiddling thumbs if he finds something interesting to do. He's the kind of guy who would work to solve some problems even if there's no money in it.

 

[imoldernu]

Saw four sons thru school, retired @53, 30+ years ago, and then lived in Woodhaven in a Park Model. Happy days, busy doing fun things... and after a few years, snowbirding in Florida. A while back, but with an even lower asset base, though never did without.

Just went back to peek at ERE and found some of my old personal back and forths with Jacob, years ago. Was interesting, and he gave me some good advice. Lots of mutual interests.

 

[easysurfer]

I visited there a few times in the past as certain topics for discussion don't get flagged there. But after participating in one or two of those threads I decided not really my thing. Guess I'm stuck here after all .

 

[Lienlord]

When I was 32, I also had 2 young boys (a toddler and a newborn). Then my wife & I attended a "get out of debt" seminar at church and learned about emergency funds, snowballs, LBYM, etc. We set a goal to pay off our mortgage early and invest for early retirement "someday".
Now 22 years later, our sons are grown and out of college, and we've been FI for many years.
I'm planning to RE from my W2 j*b in 6 months. I give it up to anyone that already has $800K at the age we really got the (snow)ball rolling!
Not sure I would feel comfortable pulling the trigger with that many years left, but everyone is different. Fortunately, at 32 there's always time to return!

Like some once said, "Good decisions come from experience, which comes from Bad decisions!"

 

[Mountain skier]

I have always enjoyed MMM. Not sure why some folks here do not care for him much? Perhaps a few examples will help me understand.

 

[REWahoo]

I have always enjoyed MMM. Not sure why some folks here do not care for him much? Perhaps a few examples will help me understand.

Reading through these threads will shed some light on why some like him and some don't.

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/meet-mr-money-mustache-66459.html

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/mr-money-mustache-divorce-blog-post-95534.html

 

[aaronc879]

I have always enjoyed MMM. Not sure why some folks here do not care for him much? Perhaps a few examples will help me understand.

I think many of the people on here are high spenders and don't want to accept that you don't NEED $60K+/yr to retire. You can retire on <$30K/yr like many, many people have. Not everyone wants to travel the world or eat out 10+ times a week.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I think many of the people on here are high spenders and don't want to accept that you don't NEED $60K+/yr to retire. You can retire on <$30K/yr like many, many people have. Not everyone wants to travel the world or eat out 10+ times a week.

Both MMM and the ERE guys were promoting the low cost lifestyle before the ACA, which wasn't realistic for many families without group health insurance. Without the ACA subsidies our premiums alone would be $25K this year. MMM does seem to travel the world and eat out - he just used to leave those expenses out of his posted budgets, like he did with other categories like taxes and home maintenance. If I left out travel, income taxes, home maintenance and healthcare my expenses would look pretty good, too. As for the extreme retirement guy, most posters here on Medicare seem to spend at least $5K per person annually, so pretty hard for a person to live on $10K when half that goes to healthcare, not including any big bills like hearing aids or dental work.

I grew up in an under $30K kind of household so I know it can be done without going hungry, but we did have employer health insurance and we went camping for vacations, not jetting off to Hawaii and Ecuador.

 

[LarryMelman]

The FIRE bloggers all suffer from a cult of personality to various degrees. MMM perhaps being the most extreme, but others have the problem too. Being blogs, they control the platform, the content and its tone. And more importantly, they can censor comments that aren't appropriately rah-rah or deferential.


That's why an open forum like this, will always be much more worthwhile.

 

[NW-Bound]

+1

Groupthink is usually (always?) not good. Dissenting views should be heard.

 

[Jerry1]

If the guy in the original post is debt free with $800K at 32, he’s doing quite well. I never loved my job, but I would take that at 32 and project what I’d have at 40 and dream about a nicer retirement than just getting by. At 32, I’d also consider finding my passion instead of retiring. He’s built a great cushion and could do gig work and have lots of time for family, etc. To work as hard as he (they, I’m sure his spouse was in the game too) just to scrap by for the next several decades does seem like a very rewarding life to me.

 

[unclemick]

I haven't read that forum since Jacob took that high dollar full time job as a quant, in Chicago.

The amazing level of frugality that is reported on that site is unrealistic for the kinds of lifestyles that many of us live. Despite that, I do think that reading there could be valuable for motivational purposes when saving for retirement.

For example, a person might think, "Jacob made a rake rather than buying one. Oh well, I suppose that is insane but I guess I could at least check the Dollar Store or yard sales, to see if I can find a cheaper rake than those at Home Depot."

Sans the kids, (ER'd 1993 - to present) early on on I took great great pleasure being really really cheap and could/have in the past regaled this forum with embellished tales of 'Swamp' living. And with a little temp work, taking in boarders, onset of pension at 55, early SS and time in the market plus romance and marriage living expenses have drifted up 10x from my all time never to be repeated one year low.

Bragging is fun BUT do I wish to go back and live that lifestyle - er NO!

heh heh heh - Now having past SS and RMD ages knowing people for whom it is not a choice - I am extremely grateful for this forum clear back to Dory36 days.

P.S. No longer re use dryer sheets and neither does my wife. In joke.

 

[GenXguy]

The FIRE bloggers all suffer from a cult of personality to various degrees. MMM perhaps being the most extreme, but others have the problem too. Being blogs, they control the platform, the content and its tone. And more importantly, they can censor comments that aren't appropriately rah-rah or deferential.


That's why an open forum like this, will always be much more worthwhile.

For certain, regarding the MMM forum, the members tend to attack anyone posting anything politically conservative in nature. It definitely feels very cult-like.