ficalc.app VS firecalc.com

[JoseSantiago]

Hi retirement friends,

Has anyone used these calculators? Ficalc.app gives me 100% odds with my portfolio and spending vs firecalc.com which gives me 65% odds, does anyone know what type of differences these calculations are based on?

Thanks!

 

[Gryphon]

One thing to be careful of with firecalc is that you cannot enter any dates prior to the current year. If you are retired & already started your pension or Social Security, you have to pretend that those payments started this year. If you enter any dates from 2022 or earlier it messes up the results, sometimes quite badly. For example, if I change the starting year of my pension from 2023 to the real starting date of 2017, the success rate drops from 94.6% down to less than 50%.

You should also look at the portfolio tabs & make sure that they're using similar assumptions about how you're invested in stocks vs bonds.

I wound up getting fairly similar results - 94.6% vs 92%.

 

[Toast]

I use both calculators as well and am following this thread. What I like about FICalc is how easy it is to run alternative withdrawal strategies.

 

[Morgan22]

In the FI Calc app when you add in pensions or social security in the "Add Additional Income" field did you check the box that says "Income repeats indefinitely"? (It defaults to 1 year.)
First time I used FI Calc I missed this because I didn't scroll down and was wondering why it seemed far off from FIRECalc.

 

[COcheesehead]

I use both and never had that level of discrepancy. It has to be entry differences.

 

[camfused]

One thing to be careful of with firecalc is that you cannot enter any dates prior to the current year. If you are retired & already started your pension or Social Security, you have to pretend that those payments started this year. If you enter any dates from 2022 or earlier it messes up the results, sometimes quite badly. For example, if I change the starting year of my pension from 2023 to the real starting date of 2017, the success rate drops from 94.6% down to less than 50%.

You should also look at the portfolio tabs & make sure that they're using similar assumptions about how you're invested in stocks vs bonds.

I wound up getting fairly similar results - 94.6% vs 92%.

I am missing something. Don’t you include your current assets, plus SS and pension as income, and it goes from here (what does the past have to do with anything)?

 

[USGrant1962]

I am missing something. Don’t you include your current assets, plus SS and pension as income, and it goes from here (what does the past have to do with anything)?

FIRECalc has a number of fields where you enter a date, including the start of Social Security. So if one started SS last year one might enter 2022. FC doesn't check those dates and fails/breaks if you enter prior years. It is a flaw on the data entry side of FC.

 

[camfused]

^^^ Ok, so on the second tab, you just enter what you are currently getting for SS, and you put in this year for your pension (if applicable). FC is a quasi-future scenario predictor, based on past scenarios, and it (and you) should not care about your financial past.

I guess I am still missing something, but whatever, I'll move on.

 

[FREE866]

I like both calculators and admittedly spend way too much time on them.


I don't bother with the social security feature. I'm 56 now so what I do is run a test of 14 years because that's when I plan to take social security and as of now that will pay almost all of my expenses. I think that's when I will truly feel "home free" . Both for now give me 100% thankfully.

 

[COcheesehead]

FICalc also has way more withdrawal strategies and the ability to change allocations over time, so make sure your scenarios are apples to apples between the two.
Frankly I think FICalc is the more robust tool, but FireCalc seems to be the one folks on here use most.
The Fidelity planner is another option. You can get very granular with your expenses and have time span related expenses like when healthcare starts, stops, has additions, sell/buy cars, houses, have mortgage paid off, etc.

 

[camfused]

I am not sure what it is, but there is something about FICalc that I don't trust. For example, my current withdrawal amount is $95K. I put this into both tools, along with all my other data, and they both say 100% success. Fine. When I change this to a $175K withdrawal, FICalc still says 100% success, and FireCalc says about 10%. For a 6+% withdrawal rate, the FICalc answer just seems wrong.

 

[FREE866]

I am not sure what it is, but there is something about FICalc that I don't trust. For example, my current withdrawal amount is $95K. I put this into both tools, along with all my other data, and they both say 100% success. Fine. When I change this to a $175K withdrawal, FICalc still says 100% success, and FireCalc says about 10%. For a 6+% withdrawal rate, the FICalc answer just seems wrong.

whats the time frame for that 6% withdrawal rate?

 

[Gumby]

Both of these are models. As George Box told us, "all models are wrong, but some are useful."

 

[COcheesehead]

I am not sure what it is, but there is something about FICalc that I don't trust. For example, my current withdrawal amount is $95K. I put this into both tools, along with all my other data, and they both say 100% success. Fine. When I change this to a $175K withdrawal, FICalc still says 100% success, and FireCalc says about 10%. For a 6+% withdrawal rate, the FICalc answer just seems wrong.

When you change an entry, you need to click on another input box as a way of entering the new data. Otherwise it will default to your previous scenario.

 

[Fire26]

Email James at ficalc with your example and questions, I have done so on 3 occasions and he has replied quickly with comprehensive answers. The email is hey at ficalc.app

 

[jamesplease]

Hi all, I know I'm a bit late, but I'm the creator of FI Calc. I'm happy to answer any questions that anyone has about calculation results or about the calculator in general.

FIRECalc and FI Calc should also produce similar results in many situations, but they will not be the same.

If anyone ever encounters a result in FICalc that they can't make sense of, please email me. The email is in the above post, but to write it out again: hey(at)ficalc.app

I'm happy to review the simulation and answer any questions you have.

I am not sure what it is, but there is something about FICalc that I don't trust. For example, my current withdrawal amount is $95K. I put this into both tools, along with all my other data, and they both say 100% success. Fine. When I change this to a $175K withdrawal, FICalc still says 100% success, and FireCalc says about 10%. For a 6+% withdrawal rate, the FICalc answer just seems wrong.

Can you share this simulation? Click the "Save or Share" button, and then paste the URL either in this thread or in an email to hey(at)ficalc.app .

 

[Rianne]

Hi all, I know I'm a bit late, but I'm the creator of FI Calc. I'm happy to answer any questions that anyone has about calculation results or about the calculator in general.

FIRECalc and FI Calc should also produce similar results in many situations, but they will not be the same.

If anyone ever encounters a result in FICalc that they can't make sense of, please email me. The email is in the above post, but to write it out again: hey(at)ficalc.app

I'm happy to review the simulation and answer any questions you have.



Can you share this simulation? Click the "Save or Share" button, and then paste the URL either in this thread or in an email to hey(at)ficalc.app .

What is the inflation rate in FIcalc? It only allows the extra SS income to start 5 years after retirement. Or am I doing something wrong? I get differing results compared to Firecalc. It wants to add inflation to extra income when it is COLAd, so that income increases over time.

 

[COcheesehead]

What is the inflation rate in FIcalc? It only allows the extra SS income to start 5 years after retirement. Or am I doing something wrong? I get differing results compared to Firecalc. It wants to add inflation to extra income when it is COLAd, so that income increases over time.

In the extra income box, you can specify when it starts and if it’s for a defined period or indefinitely. There is also a check box to have inflation applied or not applied.

 

[jamesplease]

What is the inflation rate in FIcalc?

From 1913 onward inflation is derived from the CPI-U published by the US Bureau of Labor and Statistics. Years 1871-1913 use Warren-Pearson.

It only allows the extra SS income to start 5 years after retirement. Or am I doing something wrong?

Where it says "5 years into retirement" is an input field. If you click into it you can type in any number that you want.

There are other configuration options available for Additional Income and Withdrawals, like specifying a duration and also whether or not it adjusts for inflation. If you're using this feature, you'll want to make sure that you have each of these options correctly configured, otherwise the results won't match what you're trying to model.

I get differing results compared to Firecalc. It wants to add inflation to extra income when it is COLAd, so that income increases over time.

If you need more assistance please send me the URL of this simulation and I can take a look.

 

[COcheesehead]

Hi all, I know I'm a bit late, but I'm the creator of FI Calc. I'm happy to answer any questions that anyone has about calculation results or about the calculator in general.

FIRECalc and FI Calc should also produce similar results in many situations, but they will not be the same.

If anyone ever encounters a result in FICalc that they can't make sense of, please email me. The email is in the above post, but to write it out again: hey(at)ficalc.app

I'm happy to review the simulation and answer any questions you have.



Can you share this simulation? Click the "Save or Share" button, and then paste the URL either in this thread or in an email to hey(at)ficalc.app .

I want to thank you for creating this tool. I think it is very powerful and provides much more info than FireCalc.

 

[sparky08]

Nice work Jamesplease. I didn't know about ficalc until I saw this thread.

For me, it work better than firecalc. I have an inherited IRA that will expire in a couple years. I never firgured out how to put that in Firecalc. And I like modeling possible part time temporary work.

 

[Rianne]

From 1913 onward inflation is derived from the CPI-U published by the US Bureau of Labor and Statistics. Years 1871-1913 use Warren-Pearson.



Where it says "5 years into retirement" is an input field. If you click into it you can type in any number that you want.

There are other configuration options available for Additional Income and Withdrawals, like specifying a duration and also whether or not it adjusts for inflation. If you're using this feature, you'll want to make sure that you have each of these options correctly configured, otherwise the results won't match what you're trying to model.



If you need more assistance please send me the URL of this simulation and I can take a look.

Thanks, I'm not scrolling enough. The SS COLA part is still a puzzle and I don't know if Firecalc assumes COLA either. I do like my success!

 

[MichaelB]

The SS COLA part is still a puzzle and I don't know if Firecalc assumes COLA either. I do like my success!

Yes, FIRECalc calculations include COLA inflation adjustments for SS. For other pension income you have the option of including inflation adjustment or not.

 

[Rianne]

Not to belabor something I've discovered with calculators, and it is true with fiCalc as well, all being equal except SS amounts (smaller amount at FRA and larger at 70 according to opensocialsecurity.com) the end success result is better if you take SS at FRA instead of 70. I only mean over 30 years of investing, not the monthly amount.

 

[Time2]

Not to belabor something I've discovered with calculators, and it is true with fiCalc as well, all being equal except SS amounts (smaller amount at FRA and larger at 70 according to opensocialsecurity.com) the end success result is better if you take SS at FRA instead of 70. I only mean over 30 years of investing, not the monthly amount.

Ya but! Does that take into account 4 more years of Roth conversions at a lower rate to pay less RMDs tax later and a spouse that will collect a higher SS check when the higher earning spouse dies?
Yes. it's complicated.