Financial Advisor obtaining a PPP Loan

[All Is Lost]

Should I be concerned that my Financial Advisor applied for and received a Payback Protection Program (PPP) loan, and the loan was forgiven?

In looking at the details of the loan, the number of employees she listed does not match the actual number of employees that work there.

Please know that I did not actively seek out to see if she had taken out a loan. I have been a client of hers for a very long time. What would you do?

 

[pacergal]

It would not really be my business.
However, if your concern is a fraudulent claim, then I would seek business elsewhere.
Find another advisor, or try to manage it yourself.

 

[HarveyS]

Maybe your advisor has a second office you are unaware of? If you did not actively seek out this info, how did you come across it?
Since you have a long relationship, I'd ask her directly about it. If she lied or cheated, I'd move on immediately.

 

[OldShooter]

Move on, of course. But if you have solid evidence of fraud, IMO you have a duty to report it to authorities. FBI? You do not have to have enough evidence to convict, just enough to raise a reasonable doubt. It's the authorities' responsibility to take it from there.

 

[njhowie]

Small businesses were encouraged to apply for Paycheck Protection Program loans. Most all Paycheck Protection Program loans are forgiven. There was an extremely low hurdle to clear for receiving the loans and having them forgiven.

If you've been a client for a very long time, apparently you trust the FA. If you trust the FA, then why are you concerned at all? If you don't trust the FA, then close your account and move the money. Seems like a simple decision to me.

 

[ivinsfan]

Move on, of course. But if you have solid evidence of fraud, IMO you have a duty to report it to authorities. FBI? You do not have to have enough evidence to convict, just enough to raise a reasonable doubt. It's the authorities' responsibility to take it from there.

Whoa, is it OK if he asks her directly first. OP this is public info and you have the right to ask her directly. How do you know I f she has it people or others that don't directly face the public

 

[OldShooter]

Whoa, is it OK if he asks her directly first. OP this is public info and you have the right to ask her directly. How do you know I f she has it people or others that don't directly face the public

I think that's fine, and any other due diligence that the OP chooses to do. But if/when he is reasonably certain that fraud has occurred IMO it is poor citizenship to look the other way. That is really the root my comment; all the responses to this point were basically advice to look the other way. I don't think that's ethical.

 

[Sunset]

Move on, of course. But if you have solid evidence of fraud, IMO you have a duty to report it to authorities. FBI? You do not have to have enough evidence to convict, just enough to raise a reasonable doubt. It's the authorities' responsibility to take it from there.

+1

If it's legit, the person will be able to quickly prove all is good.

If it's fraud, then I'd hate to have my money handled by this person, no telling who they may already be stealing from

 

[HarveyS]

... all the responses to this point were basically advice to look the other way. I don't think that's ethical.

Well, not all the responses. I directly suggested to ask her about it.

When I applied for PPP at Chase I had to supply my Federal Form 941 - Employers quarterly federal tax return. That form clearly states the number of employees. Maybe other loan facilitators didn't require this form.

Let's not assume guilt before the accused has a chance to speak to the issue.

If she cannot explain it, it sure looks like fraud and she should be reported.

 

[Jerry1]

I agree that one shouldn’t look the other way, but in this case I would just move on. There’s no way you know enough about the situation to evaluate it. Do you know all the rules around the PPP? Are you positive you know how many employees the business has? People work from home, sole proprietors put family members on payroll, etc. There may be other criteria that you’re not familiar with.

I guess if I wanted to pursue it at all, I’d come right out and ask. The conversation must have come up, so why wouldn’t you just ask - “Hey, I thought you needed X employees to qualify and I only know of Y employees. How did you pull that off?” But personally, this isn’t my business. Now if my FA was proposing that I do something unethical or illegal, it would certainly be time for a new FA. Maybe even a note to the licensing board or the Association they belong to.

 

[OldShooter]

Well, not all the responses. I directly suggested to ask her about it. ...

Sorry, I was not clear. By "look the other way" I meant to not report a fraud if the OP believes that there has probably been one. Talking to the FA, particularly in the context of a long relationship, makes perfect sense. And maybe the whole thing is innocent; that would probably be the best outcome.

 

[Sunset]

Wonder what Bernie Madoff would say if any client had asked ?

 

[OldShooter]

... There’s no way you know enough about the situation to evaluate it. Do you know all the rules around the PPP? Are you positive you know how many employees the business has? People work from home, sole proprietors put family members on payroll, etc. There may be other criteria that you’re not familiar with. ...

It's not the OP's responsibility to convict. IMO the responsibility is to report to authorities if the OP has investigated in good faith and found evidence that fraud may have been committed. It's the authorities' job to investigate all that other stuff and, if appropriate refer the matter for prosecution. It is the prosecuting authority's responsibility to decide whether to move forward or not.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

If the person rants against people who receive public assistance then yes you should be worried as you are doing business with a complete hypocrite.

 

[Magus]

I would not confront the FA while they were still managing my money. I'd move my funds to manage myself or another FA if it looked really fishy or I had second thoughts about their ethics in general.

 

[youbet]

Should I be concerned that my Financial Advisor applied for and received a Payback Protection Program (PPP) loan, and the loan was forgiven?

No. That was a common occurrence strongly promoted by Fed Gov authorities.

In looking at the details of the loan, the number of employees she listed does not match the actual number of employees that work there.

Where did you get the actual number of employees?

Please know that I did not actively seek out to see if she had taken out a loan. I have been a client of hers for a very long time.

That’s funny!

What would you do?

Evaluate her performance on how she has performed for you and go with that.

 

[youbet]

If the person rants against people who receive public assistance then yes you should be worried as you are doing business with a complete hypocrite.

More importantly, if the person has dozens of bodies buried in the basement, you’re dealing with a potential mass murderer! Proceed with caution!

 

[OldShooter]

... Evaluate her performance on how she has performed for you and go with that.

My rule on dishonesty in a situation like this is one strike and you're out. If the OP eventually becomes convinced that the FA did something fraudulent, that is the action I'd suggest taking.

There is a folk tale that appears in many cultures, the punch line of which is "You knew what I was when you picked me up." Here are a couple of examples:
GIRL AND THE SNAKE Story, Young Girls Saves a Rattlesnake's Life and it Bites Her Because He's a Snake in the Grass Ex-Friends & Backstabbers Quotes
https://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Legends/TheLittleBoyAndTheRattlesnake-Cherokee.html

 

[youbet]

My rule on dishonesty in a situation like this is one strike and you're out. If the OP eventually becomes convinced that the FA did something fraudulent, that is the action I'd suggest taking.

There is a folk tale that appears in many cultures, the punch line of which is "You knew what I was when you picked me up." Here are a couple of examples:
GIRL AND THE SNAKE Story, Young Girls Saves a Rattlesnake's Life and it Bites Her Because He's a Snake in the Grass Ex-Friends & Backstabbers Quotes
https://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Legends/TheLittleBoyAndTheRattlesnake-Cherokee.html

Yes, but there is little/nothing in OP’s post indicating guilt. You’ve jumped the shark in making that assumption. I’d certainly fire anyone in my employment who committed a significant crime. But I’d get to the bottom of it first.

 

[OldShooter]

... You’ve jumped the shark in making that assumption. ..

Where have I stated such an assumption? Quotation, please.

 

[All Is Lost]

I appreciate the advice. Looks like I need to find a new FA. Since I am clueless about investments I suppose I will need to stay with her until I find a new one.

If anyone is interested, listed below is a link to businesses that received the PPP money and details on if it was forgiven. In the search function just type in the Zip Code that you are interested in. https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/search?q=

 

[Letj]

No. That was a common occurrence strongly promoted by Fed Gov authorities. Where did you get the actual number of employees? That’s funny! Evaluate her performance on how she has performed for you and go with that.

I completely agree with you. I don’t understand the extreme reaction from some about reporting her based on what the OP posted. The OP may not know the facts. How many extra employees she reported 100? The OP should really mind their business. Get a new FA if they’re no longer comfortable. This whole thing seems like conjecture to me.

 

[Sunset]

I appreciate the advice. Looks like I need to find a new FA. Since I am clueless about investments I suppose I will need to stay with her until I find a new one.

If anyone is interested, listed below is a link to businesses that received the PPP money and details on if it was forgiven. In the search function just type in the Zip Code that you are interested in. https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/search?q=

Interesting

 

[CardsFan]

Interesting

yeah. I entered my area code. Saw some familiar businesses, and then several "eldercare facilities" with forgiven loans of around $500k.

Not my monkey, not my circus, but I do wonder.

Actually, it IS my circus, since I am paying the bill.

 

[Scratchy]

OP has presented no good evidence any wrongdoing occurred. The details of the financial advisor's PPP loan application are about as much OP's business as my personal tax returns are to my housekeeper. IMO some of the overreaching and judgement in this thread borders on bizarre.