CuppaJoe
Moderator Emeritus
Welcome to the forum, MBAustin. Being 99% certain may be more than enough. Keep us posted.
Michelle, I'm just curious where you have encountered all these people that don't spend much and save enough to be FI yet keep working. I know it isn't that hard to do it, as evidenced by all of us here that succeed quite well. Just never seen a big concentration of people that are FI yet keep clocking in every day.
Well, I've encountered a lot of these people in my profession and my job; most of them are not in "big law firms" but firmly entrenched in public servant positions. I also know lots of professionals or people in trade skills who have saved enough for retirement but keep on working because their work is a labor of love or work fills up their time.
I'm with Michelle's thoughts here; and my sense is that the inhabitants of this forum are not very representative of most people with the financial ability to retire.
I'm curious. How do you "know" these people have saved enough to retire but choose not to? I know a fair amount of people, but there's only a small handful whose financial situations I am relatively familiar with. I guess at a lot of them, but it's at best an educated guess. And I know a fair number of public servants, and I don't think a single one of them continues in their jobs because of a labor of love. Maybe a few because it fills their time, but I don't think many. I would venture to guess that 100% of them would quit their jobs if they won the lottery.
I agree. Certainly many people talk it up at work about how they "don't need this", they can "quit at any time (they) want", and so forth. But they almost never do quit ... which suggests that they are full of hot air.People often talk a big talk, exaggerate, embellish, boast, etc when the reality may be different from how they talk.
I knew a man in his mid to late 70's at my (former) agency, who would have received a hefty pension had he retired. He wasn't motivated to work too hard. His job was not especially stressful, though it was repetitive since he was more or less a glorified clerk.FUEGO said:I find this topic very interesting though. I really don't know anybody who is FI and just loves their job so much that they stick with it. If anything, the folks I know in the public sector doing what I do are "just putting in their 30 years" to a greater extent than folks in the private sector.
Such people do exist. My wife - employed in the private sector - is FI several times over (thanks to generous compensation and a LBYM lifestyle), but will not retire for at least the next few years; she derives a great deal of satisfaction and status from her work. I have no doubt that there are other people similarly situated, although perhaps they are rather fewer that Michelle or ChrisC believe.
Actions speak louder than words. Some just shut up and do it. Others keep complaining. Because they can't do it.I agree. Certainly many people talk it up at work about how they "don't need this", they can "quit at any time (they) want", and so forth. But they almost never do quit ... which suggests that they are full of hot air.
I had that same question. How do you really know these people are financially independent? People often talk a big talk, exaggerate, embellish, boast, etc when the reality may be different from how they talk.
Milton said:In contempory Western society, personal financial details are essentially a taboo topic, even (especially?) among family and close friends. So it is effectively impossible to know whether someone is genuinely FI and working by choice rather than necessity.
Fuego said:I guess those that are truly FI but love their jobs and keep at them are doing something meaningful? That's hard to find these days.
Pretty simple, really. When the economy sucks and jobs are almost non-existent, many people want a much higher "margin of safety" in their retirement calculations before pulling the plug.I'm curious. How do you "know" these people have saved enough to retire but choose not to? I know a fair amount of people, but there's only a small handful whose financial situations I am relatively familiar with. I guess at a lot of them, but it's at best an educated guess. And I know a fair number of public servants, and I don't think a single one of them continues in their jobs because of a labor of love.
I was out looking at cars last Friday when I saw a car that I was casually interested in. I could write a whole nother' post on this adventure however..., The salesguys kept trying to close the deal which I, of course, resisted. Their last move was to have me talk to the owner of the big dealership in the big plush corner office overlooking the dealership.
Well the owner, a very personable guy about 70 or so, told me his story. He had owned (simultaneously) 16 new car dealerships and sold them all so that he could retire. He took first class round' the world cruises, tried golf, and was bored stiff. So after sitting on the sofa for a year he bought the dealership that I was in "just for fun". Guessing from this guy he must be worth several hundred million dollars.
I told him that I was considering retirement but had not made the leap yet for the very issues he raised. We had a long talk about retirement, cars, and traffic in the Southern California. I liked the guy but never agreed to purchase the car.
In a way I admired this guy. Besides being a very successful businessman, he was in his element, he was around what he loved, and at that dealership it was never a dull moment.
I keep wondering what I'll do once I pull the plug. Maybe I can sell used cars...
So the odds are good that they *do* have enough, but uncertain times with low confidence cause people to reach for -- and cling to -- all the security they can find, and that means holding on to jobs they probably don't *need* to keep.
True. But I guess what I was addressing was the ER part separate from FI. In other words, when the economy is great and jobs are sprouting up all over the place, you don't need to feel quite as FI in order to take a chance on pulling the plug. But when the job market is horrible and made worse by the rampant age discrimination which exists in a lousy job market, you're likely to require a lot stronger feeling of FI before you're willing to call it quits.I would say if they need to keep working because they don't feel like their portfolio would have a high enough chance to support their spending, then they aren't quite financially independent.
True. But I guess what I was addressing was the ER part separate from FI. In other words, when the economy is great and jobs are sprouting up all over the place, you don't need to feel quite as FI in order to take a chance on pulling the plug. But when the job market is horrible and made worse by the rampant age discrimination which exists in a lousy job market, you're likely to require a lot stronger feeling of FI before you're willing to call it quits.
where in some CSRS cases they will draw 60-70 percent of current gross income, they also have matching 401K plans (agency plus TSP) where their employer contributes up to 10 percent of their salary subject to IRS limits and many have principal balances in excess of $500K-$1million,
Well, CSRS is a good deal, but let's not exaggerate...No matching TSP contributions for CSRS. No SS, either. And the high-3, on which the pension is based, is only as high as the not-very-high salary.
Anyway. Where I work, there is considerable peer pressure to retire and return as a contractor - because not to do so, would be "leaving money on the table" which somehow = Loser. I have never heard anyone say they've come back because they love the work, or even that they need the money.
As for my attitude about all that, my profile comment about peer pressure pretty much says it all....
Amethyst
Knowing what I know about CSRS, if I were in it and I felt confident I could get a secure 30+ years in, I'm not sure I'd be too concerned about my TSP, and pretty sure I wouldn't worry about how stock market performance would impact my retirement.Well, CSRS is a good deal, but let's not exaggerate...No matching TSP contributions for CSRS. No SS, either. And the high-3, on which the pension is based, is only as high as the not-very-high salary.
I worked with a man who is similar - except he's 92-93 and still working. He has been saying for years that the only reason he won't retire is because he is convinced he will die. The lump sum portion of his retirement has to be close to a million dollars, and the annuity would be the max of 75%. But he comes to work every day and flirts with all the 20-something clerks.I knew a man in his mid to late 70's at my (former) agency, who would have received a hefty pension had he retired. He wasn't motivated to work too hard. His job was not especially stressful, though it was repetitive since he was more or less a glorified clerk.
I guess it depends on the job and the person.I find this topic very interesting though. I really don't know anybody who is FI and just loves their job so much that they stick with it. If anything, the folks I know in the public sector doing what I do are "just putting in their 30 years" to a greater extent than folks in the private sector. And this spans a number of government agencies in different disciplines and at different levels that I have worked for or currently work with (as a private consultant). To a person, I can't think of anyone who had their 30 years and just couldn't help but stick around running up the clock. I'm sure they exist somewhere, I have just never encountered them personally. Maybe professors would fit into this category, but of the many that I know/have known, most of them hang it up around 30 years or shortly thereafter.