FIRE and friends

[FUEGO]

That's a good idea. After all, if some of the doom and gloom predictions I've read on the board lately come to pass, I may have to go back to work! "Sabbatical" leaves that option open...

You can be perfectly honest with yourself and others by leaving the definiteness out of your statements re: retiring. Sabbatical or "taking time off" certainly makes sense to 30-somethings. Retiring is a foreign concept.

And describing it as a sabbatical to those who aren't too close leaves open the ability to return to part time or full time paid employment without having any "I told you so's" thrown back at you. Not that anyone would be jealous enough of your ability to take an extended sabbatical to try to hurt you later by throwing your financial shortcomings in your face!

 

[FIREd]

I suppose you could just tell people you are going to rehab/fat camp.

"I'll be going away for a while"...

Oh, wait a minute, Lindsay Lohan probably said the same thing this morning...

 

[FUEGO]

Gee...maybe I should have mentioned a sabbatical....

Let's just say we all referred to the sabbatical idea nearly simultaneously...

 

[e86s54]

About 20 years ago my wife met up with some college friends from her class. They all had what seemed like great careers on the upswing and she had a good job, but not making headway to the top (hitting the glass ceiling). She was very quiet for a few days after that, feeling like an underachiever.

My wife ER'd 10 years ago and I'm on my first month. We met up with them again not long ago. They are all caught in the rate race, broken marriages, underwater mortgages and feeling tired and trapped. One had her 1st baby with a sperm donor at 47 (yikes).

So driving back I asked "so how do you feel now?". She was happy that she felt she made the right decisions. Now instead of work today, she went to yoga and then golf. It's a hard life

So in the end, most people want to show off what they've achieved and most of it also has a dark side. I would not think twice about it. I'd say I ER'd and that I understand its not for everyone. Personally, I would say that the biggest luxury in my life is to no longer be rushes into everything. I now enjoy life as it happens. So don't let them bring you down. If he's your friend he'll adapt, if he isn't, no loss.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Furthermore, I would most definitely use Fuego and bbbam's earlier suggestions of a sabbatical .

 

[bbbamI]

Let's just say we all referred to the sabbatical idea nearly simultaneously...

Who knew a 52 year old woman could think like a 30 sumpin' year old man.

Uh oh....maybe I've blown my cover....

 

[ls99]

Ok, off with the boots

 

[MasterBlaster]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBlaster
follow that up with... and you ??.... how are those staff meetings going ?

You are cruel, sir!

Oh perhaps it is a bit cruel. I probably wouldn't say it.
I would only go there if the hostile reactions about ER started though.

On a broader note: Don't we all have a bit of that Victorian work ethic ingrained in us, so it's not them but us that feels a bit squeamish when discussing ER. Are we not all a bit torn on this issue ?

 

[bbbamI]

Ok, off with the boots

Just for you...don't show it to anyone else....

(FD, I promise not to post any more songs or pics of my feet)

 

[ls99]

Nice paint job.

 

[REWahoo]

Your photo of naked feet is sandalous...

 

[Retch The Grate]

Your photo of naked feet is sandalous...

bo! The pain...

 

[donheff]

I pulled the plug in early 2005 and was up front with everyone. The last few years, as the recession dragged on, I have felt a little self conscious about this with people I don't know because I worry about tossing around a status they may be unable to achieve in the current environment. I will be 62 at the end of summer so I am getting to the age where it isn't a surprise anymore. But, if I was 50 or so I might go with the ESR or sabbatical status.

 

[Onward]

Basically, you don't want to put out this vibe that you are somehow different, wealthy, or of a higher socioeconomic class than your peers.

That is definitely part of it. But a bigger part is that I just don't want to hurt the guys I care about the most. We grew up together and have faced all of our lives' challenges together. How can I tell them, "I'm going to spend the next 20 yrs watching you writhe in agony and quiet desperation, while I'm sipping lemonade in the shade"?

Reading what I just wrote I think I must have some guilt issues to work on.

Let's just say we all referred to the sabbatical idea nearly simultaneously...

But doesn't "sabbatical" just postpone the problem? After six months your friends will be asking the same questions again, no? Mine would be.

On a broader note: Don't we all have a bit of that Victorian work ethic ingrained in us, so it's not them but us that feels a bit squeamish when discussing ER. Are we not all a bit torn on this issue ?

That is a very interesting idea that I will have to think more about.

 

[FIREd]

On a broader note: Don't we all have a bit of that Victorian work ethic ingrained in us, so it's not them but us that feels a bit squeamish when discussing ER. Are we not all a bit torn on this issue ?

I think there is a little bit of that for me...

 

[FIREd]

(FD, I promise not to post any more songs or pics of my feet)

It's all good!

 

[FUEGO]

But doesn't "sabbatical" just postpone the problem? After six months your friends will be asking the same questions again, no? Mine would be.

Maybe after a year or three, you could just say "this sabbatical is working out pretty well, I think I'll do this full time now". How much/little you reveal about your methods that allowed you to get to that point is up to you. If I knew the person well enough to know that they could comprehend and appreciate the effort it took to get to where you are today, I'd probably be forthright with how I achieved FIRE.

I have shared my secret FIRE plan with approximately 4-5 friends. So far, all are engineers, know how to use excel in depth, have taken engineering economics, understand compound growth rates and time value of money, etc. All are very financially responsible individuals. They see the big picture: work is not the be all end all in life; it is intrinsically valuable. It provides a paycheck that lets you buy nice things, pay the mortgage, save a little or a lot, and some day not have to work. Most are family or leisure oriented and appreciate having free time. These folks can understand what I am talking about, accept that it is a doable plan and an achievable goal, and recognize that it may be too extreme for their tastes but that it isn't unrealistic.

The vast majority of the remainder of friends/acquaintances/colleagues that I have would be unable to comprehend the relatively simple nature of FIRE (or I just don't know them well enough to know how they would feel). Hence no time is wasted being forthright with my big plans for the future. Explaining FIRE to most would be as cogent as explaining my rationale for joining a known cult or something similar. Life is too short! Most of my social contacts are 30-ish so that shades my "proper conversation topics" as well. A lot of my friends and acquaintances are still in college finishing up a dissertation, doing a post doc, finishing up residency, or just getting started in a career. The rest have recently settled down, gotten married, bought a house, maybe popped out a kid or two. Retirement isn't on their radar and so my plans to FIRE would be a foreign concept.

 

[FIREd]

Maybe after a year or three, you could just say "this sabbatical is working out pretty well, I think I'll do this full time now". How much/little you reveal about your methods that allowed you to get to that point is up to you. If I knew the person well enough to know that they could comprehend and appreciate the effort it took to get to where you are today, I'd probably be forthright with how I achieved FIRE.

Yes, I think Sabbatical is going to be a transitional label. After a few years, I will probably feel more comfortable calling myself semi-retired or even retired.

 

[easysurfer]

When I explain it to others, I've resigned to say that I FIRE'd because I enjoy so much that every day feels like a Saturday. Then either others do not understand and think I'm nuts because that is such a simple reason or they do understand and say they wish they were in my shoes

 

[Tigger]

Just for you...don't show it to anyone else....

(FD, I promise not to post any more songs or pics of my feet)

Lovely feet!

 

[audreyh1]

I had no problem with my coworkers - as I was one of many over several years to retire quite early.

But my neighbors? That was a little more awkward, especially with the folks across the street husband finally retiring at the more typical age of 65. Our neighbor hoped to retire in his 50s.

Still - it was Austin during the high tech boom. We didn't have to do much explaining...

Fortunately, within a year of retiring we were moving in new circles with new friends from new interests, and somehow it was much easier to explain, and somehow much less of an issue with new acquaintances. With travel and outdoor hobbies you are more likely to run into other retired folks anyway.

Audrey

 

[Milton]

I just don't want to hurt the guys I care about the most. We grew up together and have faced all of our lives' challenges together. How can I tell them, "I'm going to spend the next 20 yrs watching you writhe in agony and quiet desperation, while I'm sipping lemonade in the shade"?

Reading what I just wrote I think I must have some guilt issues to work on.

I agree.

If you have grown up together and faced similar challenges, then presumably you have had essentially the same options. The fact that friends have made different choices should not be cause for celebration or condemnation ... certainly it is not cause for guilt.

 

[pixelville]

Not embarrassed. But ... [having trouble putting this in words] I think the fabric that holds many middle-class, middle-aged friendships together is the comraderie that comes from knowing you're both stuggling against a common enemy: the drudgery, confusion, anxiety, and thanklessness of modern workaday life. When you retire early you give up your membership in that struggle, and your friendships (with those still in it) can't be the same.

I don't think I'm imagining all this?

All very true. And well put. We ESRed at 40. Been over 2 years. Slowly, slowly lot of our friends (or ex-colleagues) are drifting away. We no longer have as much in common (they talk about work, career, kids and we about travel, reading, leisure) and there is a subtle but definite resentment/envy that we have an easy life. Somehow everyone believes we were lucky although it is really life choices we made years ago (no kids, live frugally). One reason some of the "friends" may be staying away from us is that we remind them of the life they wish to have but don't - which increases their dis-satisfaction with their job & life.

Another observation, some other friends start thinking of you as their therapist and others think that since you are not working, you have lots of time where they can dictate how you should spend. Oh well.... the problems of ER .

Are there groups / meetups for FIRE where you meet others (not virtually) who are also ERed?

 

[Onward]

and there is a subtle but definite resentment/envy that we have an easy life

That's exactly what I'm most afraid of. Thanks for articulating what I couldn't quite.

And the situation is made worse by the fact that, among all my close friends, I have worked the least hard over the years. I know that and they know that. I'm just the only one who read Terhorst, Dominquez, and Bogle.

O gawd, what have I gotten myself into?

 

[youbet]

The fact that friends have made different choices should not be cause for celebration or condemnation ... certainly it is not cause for guilt.

I like that outlook. Each of us has our own life to live and someone who chooses another path than ourselves is not necessarily wrong simply because it would not have been our choice.

I've had very few issues with friends and relatives since I FIRE'd. Of those still working, I suppose some envy my position, some think they'd be bored and others truly thrive earning a living. Each to his own. Some have fallen away as our common interests are fewer. Some are closer. We're all ourselves and evolving as we pass though life.

If your outlook is that you have not chosen a superior path in life but simply your own path while others have chosen their own paths, then you won't have issues relating to those around you post FIRE.