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Old 01-09-2020, 07:40 PM   #61
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1. Fear of running out of money.
2. Fear that others will judge (someone mentioned this upthread).
3. Fear of getting used to a nicer lifestyle and then running out of money.
4. Wanting to avoid wasting money.
5. Lack of ideas of what to do (someone mentioned this upthread in an incredulous post).
6. Contentment with what one has. In this case extra money is sort of a perplexing thing rather than a problem per se, but it can be something that someone feels obliged to address.

For me it's all of the above except not really #3. OP, what are your reasons for being stuck? Sounds like #6 from your most recent post, but there could be additional reasons. If it is #6, then it could just be a mental shift to deciding you don't really need to spend the extra money if you don't want to - i.e., it's not really a problem that needs to be addressed. Unless you'd be bothered by leaving extra money to whomever is in your will.


OP here. Yes I believe you are about right on #6. Donít have issues with the others except #4. My 2 boys, now 37 and 35 still joke about me always telling them to turn the lights off and donít let the hot water run constantly while shaving (rules I still live by). It definitely is a mindset that is very hard for me to change. I am 66 wife 65, both just started SS, (oh no more money!). I could easily just maintain and watch the nest egg grow more but that seems pretty dumb. I am really against letting kids inherit, always believe in hard work and earning it yourself, they are doing very well on their own. Free money is evil. We do like cruising have been on many, 2 each year usually, guess we could make that 6. Iím sure as time goes on I will gradually loosen up. Another thing I hate is going out to eat because I love to cook and can outdo all but the best professionals. It really bothers me to spend $100 in a restaurant knowing I could cook it much better for a quarter of the price. Anyway Iím rambling now, thanks to all for the advice which Iím sure will help with my habits moving forward.
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Old 01-09-2020, 07:50 PM   #62
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Lot's of people here struggle with your problem. Hehe, I'm not one of them -

I have a whole list of stuff to blow dough on and the list is no where near the end. Wifey wants another trip to Monterrey, I need another boat, the landscaper is working on the front and back yard, the tuition bills are coming and dorm fees.

I also run the water when I shave because i'm in the shower and if I turn the water off I'll get cold.

I worked for it and now I got it and I'm gonna

Blow That Dough!
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:01 PM   #63
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OP here. Yes I believe you are about right on #6. Donít have issues with the others except #4. My 2 boys, now 37 and 35 still joke about me always telling them to turn the lights off and donít let the hot water run constantly while shaving (rules I still live by). It definitely is a mindset that is very hard for me to change. I am 66 wife 65, both just started SS, (oh no more money!). I could easily just maintain and watch the nest egg grow more but that seems pretty dumb. I am really against letting kids inherit, always believe in hard work and earning it yourself, they are doing very well on their own. Free money is evil. We do like cruising have been on many, 2 each year usually, guess we could make that 6. Iím sure as time goes on I will gradually loosen up. Another thing I hate is going out to eat because I love to cook and can outdo all but the best professionals. It really bothers me to spend $100 in a restaurant knowing I could cook it much better for a quarter of the price. Anyway Iím rambling now, thanks to all for the advice which Iím sure will help with my habits moving forward.

I think some of your examples of frugality are as much about not being wasteful. I agreeóit bothers me to waste resources, whether those resources are money or natural.

I believe Brett mentioned above leaving money to heirs. Hard work and earning it yourself is great, but opportunities are different now. Neither of your children is likely to have a pension or significant SS. These are huge advantages that the current generation of retirees is enjoying that are difficult to replace with hard work alone. We grew up with very little and while I have every intention of spending down the nest egg if weíre in a bad scenario, if we end up in a good scenario Iíll be happy to make life easier for our kids. Though it will likely be held in trust until theyíre old enough to appreciate it!
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Old 01-09-2020, 11:02 PM   #64
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OP here. Yes I believe you are about right on #6. Donít have issues with the others except #4. My 2 boys, now 37 and 35 still joke about me always telling them to turn the lights off and donít let the hot water run constantly while shaving (rules I still live by). It definitely is a mindset that is very hard for me to change. I am 66 wife 65, both just started SS, (oh no more money!). I could easily just maintain and watch the nest egg grow more but that seems pretty dumb. I am really against letting kids inherit, always believe in hard work and earning it yourself, they are doing very well on their own. Free money is evil. We do like cruising have been on many, 2 each year usually, guess we could make that 6. Iím sure as time goes on I will gradually loosen up. Another thing I hate is going out to eat because I love to cook and can outdo all but the best professionals. It really bothers me to spend $100 in a restaurant knowing I could cook it much better for a quarter of the price. Anyway Iím rambling now, thanks to all for the advice which Iím sure will help with my habits moving forward.
Right. I'm pretty similar.

So don't waste money by spending it on restaurants or letting the kids have it. You have to find what you value - whatever that is - and then spend on that. Maybe 6 cruises is not wasteful, maybe it is. That's up to you.

So spend without wasting, whatever that looks like to you and your spouse.
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Old 01-10-2020, 12:43 AM   #65
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Remodel your home. That takes care of some big bucks!
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Old 01-10-2020, 06:26 AM   #66
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OP, I get what you're saying about leaving money to heirs. We don't mind leaving some, but the amounts the calculators show us leaving are far too much. It was great fun achieving FI and something we are proud of. We don't want to take that away from our kids. So, we just have to spend more. Flying first class sounds great...
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Old 01-10-2020, 07:09 AM   #67
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Old habits are hard to break. When my husband and I bought our first house a long time ago, we were on a very tight budget and didn't buy anything (including a $3.00 wastebasket for the bathroom) for a couple of years. Finally, we had a little wiggle room in the budget and I felt frozen by the idea of spending any money. I called a friend who was a big spender and we went shopping together and I bought some new clothes. It helped break the ice and I was able after that to occasionally buy something.
Plus 1 on your comment. I can remember when just before our wedding when my future wife went in to buy some bread and milk while I stayed in the car. A few minutes later she came out in tears because she realized as she was walking up to the register that she had dropped the $20 bill she was going to pay with and couldn't find it in the store. That was the only cash we were carrying that day and it was A LOT OF MONEY at the time. Nowadays, oh well no big deal.
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Old 01-11-2020, 08:54 AM   #68
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I've tackled it by forcing spending at sustainable levels. I've done the endless playing with the FIDO calculator and Firecalc, and come up with a very sustainable spend rate good through age of 95 (could easily stretch since pension and SS are about half). That amount starts the month, forcing us to move money from the investments to the local credit union. At the end of the month what doesn't get spent is moved into "temporary savings" account. Rule is that anything in there must be spent, can't be moved back to "investments."
I appreciate you mentioning that method. It lodged in my head, and I've been pondering it the past couple days. I think I'll give it a try.

I'm still early in retirement, but my natural spending seems to be at around a 2% withdrawal rate. In a sense, that's nice -- it provides a lot of financial and emotional security. But on the other hand, I know that if that spending rate continues, I'll end up winning the booby prize of Dead Guy with Lots of Money in the Bank.

One thing I've noticed is that, even though I'm free to spend much more than I do, I still habitually procrastinate about doing it. For instance, I'd like new windows in my house. I can afford it. But despite that, it's very easy for me to put it off, to say to myself, "Well, but do I really NEED new windows? They're expensive. It'd really add to the budget for this quarter, and I like seeing the spending numbers come in low."

Before I retired, having the spending numbers low meant additional security; it meant I could more easily pull the plug, without worrying. It felt good. I lived a long time like that, so it's automatic at this point.

But now that I've retired, low spending is taking on a different meaning. It's starting to feel as if I'm cheating myself somehow, being overly cautious, and setting myself up to win the booby prize mentioned above.

Anyhow, I'm going to see if I can implement a method similar to the one you describe. Maybe that will help me to spend more.
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Old 01-11-2020, 09:37 AM   #69
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I can recall my parents who grew up dirt poor and struggling during the Depression. Through a lot of hard work they eventually became quite well off while I was growing up. They however maintained that frugal, stretch the dollar, depression mentality until their dying day. It's a hard habit to break.

Even though I didn't grow up the way they did, I sometimes find myself picking up on some of their habits. I have to look at my financial situation often to remind myself that I am going to be alright.

I think I'll take another trip to Europe.. Yea! Why not?


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Old 01-11-2020, 10:44 AM   #70
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How many good summers left before you are getting wheeled out to the courtyard in your wheelchair? Or worse pushing up Daisies. Dont wanna be the richest guy in the graveyard.
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Old 01-11-2020, 01:11 PM   #71
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Or worse pushing up Daisies. Dont wanna be the richest guy in the graveyard.
+1 I recall the story of the lady at Lake Forest (wealthy Chicago suburb) College who lived in a tiny apartment. Bought 2nd hand clothes etc. She went about her life unnoticed, single, no kids. When she passed, left $7M to the college scholarship program. Naaa, I don't think I want to go that route.


https://www.chicagotribune.com/lifes...304-story.html
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Old 01-11-2020, 01:52 PM   #72
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Wife and I have lived a fairly frugal life. Have always saved maximum for retirement. Well, we are there and now with pension, SS, dividends, company stock, and multiple IRAs and 401kís. I am overwhelmed with the nest egg and how to spend it. I feel stuck in this frugality mindset and canít seem to spend more. I know it is a silly problem but for me it is real. Anyone else have this issue or ideas?
Changing old habits is hard. I don't see you changing from say a Midsize SUV (if that is what you drive) to the Porsche version for 4-5 times the money.. But start small.

Look around and realize your mattress is probably 20 years old or more. your back and joints have gotten older too. Time for new mattress and maybe new bedroom furniture? Does this apply to other things in the house? new efficient fridge with though the door ice? Super quiet dishwasher so you can actually talk while it is running....

That big flat screen TV and all the streaming services? Find the joy of watching movies at home and maybe a new couch or comfy chairs will be next. How about Echo devices or satellite music at home and in the car. Internet controlled lights and security. See who is at the door with video doorbell. Once you start to get accustomed these small improvements you won't want to go back. I mean do you know anyone who got power windows in their car and then went back to the crank kind.

You don't have to spend a fortune to improve your life. Tell your wife to go get her nails done regularly, join a gym with a spa and get a couple of massages a month. I don't need a bigger house or a pool or a boat, but I want things in my house to work well, and I belong to a gym that has a pool.

Not about BLOWING that dough, just living better. Then if the money is still growing faster than you can spend it, take some fantastic trips, get a nice car, rent a home in the south of france and learn french and how to cook! Or Italy perhaps.
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Old 01-11-2020, 05:35 PM   #73
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We've seen that too often people have not lived their dreams or grabbed as much gusto out of life as they should have.

My wife and I have inherited my parents' desire of international travel, and we're spending any future inheritances overseas. My wife did pay for a trip to Spain & France 3 months ago with her daughter, however.

My wife grew up in an apartment with 5 kids in a tiny bedroom (bunkbeds), no television, no telephone, very little food, no car, etc. She's just so thankful to be able to live in her nice home and not to have to share a bed or underwear with anyone.

On a serious note: I am very sensitive to cigarette smoke, and only have had two friends that continue to smoke. Both retired recently, and both had Stage IV lung cancer before they even knew they cancer. Neither lasted very long. Yearly physicals including chest X Rays might have spotted the problem before it because terminal.
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Old 01-11-2020, 07:45 PM   #74
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We're getting better at this. Stay at more expensive hotels. Buy an expensive car.
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Old 01-11-2020, 07:55 PM   #75
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I grew up poor and have also amassed a nice nest egg. Sometimes I find myself being too frugal--refusing to spend money on something I really want or need and can easily afford. This has caused some disagreements with DH. Old habits are hard to break. As I have aged one thing I do is think about what will happen to the money I have left when I die. I am sure my beneficiaries will not hesitate to spend, spend, spend. So I ask myself would I rather spend the money on something I need or let my beneficiaries spend it when I am gone. Looking at the issue from that perspective sometimes helps.

I have a good friend who had a very frugal husband. Even though they had plenty of money he did not want her to spend hardly anything. He died a couple of years ago and now my friend is buying all the things her husband would not get her buy, traveling, etc. I often think how much happier my friend and her husband's life would have been if he had not been so very frugal.


Harlee, My dad was the same way being frugal. I told him he needed to spend it because after they died, it would just get split 6 ways and pissed away. He just said, ďIf you all enjoy spending it half as much as I enjoyed saving it, it will be worth itĒ. Nothing more to say after that comment as I gave up.
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Old 01-11-2020, 08:11 PM   #76
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We've seen that too often people have not lived their dreams or grabbed as much gusto out of life as they should have.

Amen to that. My wife married young, and told me of measuring out the coffee to see if they had enough for the week. Her husband passed away 15 years ago, and some years later, we met and married. She said she wanted to travel, but could not do much.
Fast forward, after 52 trips and 511 travels days, we are slowing down. Our last cruise was in a suite, and our next one will be too
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Old 01-11-2020, 08:59 PM   #77
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That's fine, everyone has their own priorities. On any length flight I like the easy boarding, and not fighting with others on the overhead bin space, and being one of the very first off. Usually bags are tagged specially and are first on the carousel. The wider seat and more leg room is just a part of it.

In any case, I won't be bothered if the OP rejects it. Just giving ideas that maybe will spur something else. I also like the idea given above about vending out unpleasant tasks. That can be about anything.
I agree with all those reasons. But another important factor for me is that I just don’t like to sit next to young people. There are few in first class, and those that are generally seem well-mannered and dress conservatively. Rarely a rambunctious child in first class, either.
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Old 01-11-2020, 11:24 PM   #78
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Had this very discussion with my Dad over the holidays...their investments this year netted them over 3x what he ever made in salary and they don't know what to do with it all. Dad FIRE'd at 51 (they are now in their mid-70s) and raised 3 frugal kids - when we were children they spent money on "experiences" and not "stuff". Mom still darns socks and patches clothing! (She hates for things to go to "waste" - knowing that they can afford replacements doesn't change anything). They are generous with gifting to us kids (now in our 40s and all doing fine) and the grandkids' 529 plans are well-funded.

So, we tell them to just spend it! But they don't really know how - Mom got the kitchen remodelled, she LOVES it, but they accumulated more money in the time that it took to get the remodelling done than it actually cost. They do give to charity but (I think) have the same problem I do - a lot of the money you give to charities is "wasted" on administration and fund-raising, so your dollars aren't used as efficiently as you would use them yourself. (Off-Topic: suggestions of best charities to contribute to would not be ignored!)

For those of us not yet ready to FIRE but already on the right track - I think the advise should be to not short yourself of experiences now - BUY the WAGYU (no, I mean it, I speak from experience, I have some in my deep freeze right now). Drink the good beer. YES save, YES find the best deals, YES get those credit card bonuses and frequent flier miles - but, once you are saving a good amount and living below your means, live a little now.

I'm also a fan of random acts of generosity - that waitress at the diner that saved the last piece of rhubarb pie for you, at the end of her shift, when she didn't know if you were really coming back after your hike? $100 tip! Seriously, her day just turned out SO MUCH better - and you got rhubarb pie!
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Old 01-12-2020, 04:34 AM   #79
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Had this very discussion with my Dad over the holidays...their investments this year netted them over 3x what he ever made in salary and they don't know what to do with it all. Dad FIRE'd at 51 (they are now in their mid-70s) and raised 3 frugal kids - when we were children they spent money on "experiences" and not "stuff". Mom still darns socks and patches clothing! (She hates for things to go to "waste" - knowing that they can afford replacements doesn't change anything). They are generous with gifting to us kids (now in our 40s and all doing fine) and the grandkids' 529 plans are well-funded.


This sounds so much like us. Me more so than my wife on the parentheses except I don't darn socks. I enjoy gifting the max each year (divided between Christmas and Birthday) to my 2 step-children.


So, we tell them to just spend it! But they don't really know how - Mom got the kitchen remodelled, she LOVES it, but they accumulated more money in the time that it took to get the remodelling done than it actually cost. They do give to charity but (I think) have the same problem I do - a lot of the money you give to charities is "wasted" on administration and fund-raising, so your dollars aren't used as efficiently as you would use them yourself. (Off-Topic: suggestions of best charities to contribute to would not be ignored!)


This is why I gift directly to a few small local charities where I know how the money is used and that need the help.


For those of us not yet ready to FIRE but already on the right track - I think the advise should be to not short yourself of experiences now - BUY the WAGYU (no, I mean it, I speak from experience, I have some in my deep freeze right now). Drink the good beer. YES save, YES find the best deals, YES get those credit card bonuses and frequent flier miles - but, once you are saving a good amount and living below your means, live a little now.

I'm also a fan of random acts of generosity - that waitress at the diner that saved the last piece of rhubarb pie for you, at the end of her shift, when she didn't know if you were really coming back after your hike? $100 tip! Seriously, her day just turned out SO MUCH better - and you got rhubarb pie!

+1 and #4 and #6 I have been working on it for the past 8 years although it is coming along slowly. I even find myself discreetly going after my wife multiple times a day and turning off the bathroom light she left on. This is even after replacing burning out lights with LED bulbs. This past year I have spent more than usual trying to break the habit. Most of the time buying gifts for my wife gives me the most pleasure or arrange a special trip/adventure. In the past those have been mostly tent camping while traveling that we both enjoy. I have more limitations now so I have to spend the money to travel.

This is not an easy thing to change after all those times during which I only had canned pinto beans and biscuits to eat for a couple of years or other times (after a divorce from my first wife) where I had no furniture and slept on the floor or the few years where I had no heat during the winters and no air conditioning during the summers. (fortunately I didn't have to walk 10 miles uphill to work and 10 miles uphill to return home.) Eventually I will break the habits. I just hope I'm not too late.


Cheers!
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Old 01-12-2020, 06:53 AM   #80
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We are still clipping coupons and using Groupon...I think it is in our DNA.

We are at the stage in life, similar to you, where we prefer experiences to things. You mentioned that you go on cruises twice each year. Rather than going on 6 cruises/year, look into a WORLD CRUISE. We did that 2 years ago, and went with an ALL INCLUSIVE cruise line, Seven Seas. You do not deal with drink packages, or wifi costs. Excursions are already included. You pay a lot up front, but then you just enjoy 137 days, 30 countries, 62 ports, seeing so many different cultures. We did hiking, biking, kayaking, and a lot of physical things, but you can choose how much heavy lifting you want to do.

From that experience, we were able to decide where we wanted to visit again in the future. Our 6 hour safaris were very interesting, so last year we booked 5 weeks of safaris in 7 different camps. Amazing adventures...and again,all inclusives, we there were no expenses along the way that we had to decide on.

I highly recommend using a WORLD CRUISE to get you small appetizers of different countries...then you can decide if you want to go back for a full meal.
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