How much can we realistically spend for a long time?

[mountainsoft]

Location: in a low cost of living area...
Initial annual expenses: minimum $100,000

Low cost of living area but you need 100K per year to live? You must have expensive hobbies.

There are two sides to financial independence. Saving more money, and reducing expenses. The less you spend, the less you need to save.

I have a 25 year old unemployed son who does not seem to be interested in working for others. He has a computer science degree and is doing something computer related and hope to commercialize his game skills some day. I am not interested in comments about if we should take care of him. We decided to take care of him no matter what.

I understand, our daughter was over 30 years old before she finally moved out. You want the best for them, but you don't want to kick them to the curb with tough love either. We would have supported her as long as she was living at home, but we did repeatedly encourage her to start her own life.

Like PB4USKI mentioned, we charged our daughter $400/month the last few years she lived at home. Partially it was to teach her to be responsible for herself. Of course, there was a real financial reason too, she was costing us money. Food, clothing, internet, electricity, car insurance, licensing, health insurance, etc. The older she got, the more expensive it became to support her, and she had very few frivolous expenses. She was content spending the day on her computer and watching movies. She finally moved out about 1-1/2 years ago and is doing very well on her own.

It's only fair that your son helps out financially, even if it's just a token amount that doesn't cover his actual expenses. Surely he can do something to earn a little money, fast food, delivery driver, youtube videos, etc. It will help with your finances, teach important life lessons, and can make your son feel more confident and responsible.

That is why I am asking for a potentially long period withdrawal of my portfolio, covering my son's life if he is not successful.

I am tired of working. Assuming we both retire now. How much can we realistically spend for about 70 years? (beyond the minimum $100,000).

As other's have mentioned, all three of you won't be around for 70 years. The total expenses should go down as each of you dies.

 

[flyingaway]

I'm curious why you can't do that?

First, without a job, he would not be able to rent a place to live.

Second, we are afraid that bad things might happen to him when he is out there alone, runs out of money, and feels depressed.

He actually mentioned moving out, we just did not feel that now is the correct time.

 

[flyingaway]

Low cost of living area but you need 100K per year to live? You must have expensive hobbies.

There are two sides to financial independence. Saving more money, and reducing expenses. The less you spend, the less you need to save.

That is a good question. We have a house that is much bigger than normal in my area. We have been thinking about downsizing, but the cost of doing that is also not cheap.

 

[pjigar]

Is the 3% WR inflation adjusted or against the size of the portfolio?

3% of starting value of portfolio first year (x) and the inflation adjust x every year there after. Like trinity study. Do NOT do 3% of portfolio value every year otherwise you are restarting SORR series.

 

[retire202052]

I know you didn't ask for this comment.....but it's very relevant. The main part of your original post was:

"I'm tired of working"

You've done a great job putting yourself in a position to take control of your life.


I'm assuming you paid for your sons college education, as well. And you said "I have a son, so not sure if it's step mom at home or not. But, the conversation should go something like this....."Dude, WTF....I'm tired of working....you got about 6 months to get it figured out...cause we're retiring"

PROBLEM SOLVED!!

I didn't want to work for someone else when I was 25....but I had to do it. You may be doing him more harm by enabling him.


My thoughts went to the movie "Step Brothers" when I read your post...haha

PS...please don't reply saying I have no right to give my opinion on how to raise your son.....you posted it.

 

[chassis]

@flyingaway another suggestion is that you and your wife spend some money on a life coach to explore what’s behind you having reservations about supporting your able bodied and minded son. This is a sincere suggestion.

Have you studied the idea of codependence? It’s interesting.

 

[Exchme]

OP needs to realize the limits of what can be meaningfully done here both from a predictive standpoint and from a future behavior standpoint. From historical studies, there have too few 70 year periods to mean much and even if we had a lot of data, including data from so long ago when the world was so different seems unlikely to be predictive. Will the demographic issues, crises, technology, governance, etc. so far in the future be compatible with anything we know today or that was true in the past?

There's only so much we can do to protect our children from the world, eventually we are gone and they have to face it and muddle through as best they can.

 

[Sittinginthesun]

My parents gave me some tough love in my early 20's and cut me off when they saw I wasn't headed anywhere good in life. Without that I would have continued to flounder along knowing I had a lifeline.

It took that kick in the ass to realize I actually did have drive and a work ethic. And making minimum wage was not going to give me the life I wanted.

I now make 7 or 8 times what my dad ever did in his best year. And respect that tough love they gave me. I needed it. Maybe your son does too.

 

[retire202052]

My parents gave me some tough love in my early 20's and cut me off when they saw I wasn't headed anywhere good in life. Without that I would have continued to flounder along knowing I had a lifeline.

It took that kick in the ass to realize I actually did have drive and a work ethic. And making minimum wage was not going to give me the life I wanted.

I now make 7 or 8 times what my dad ever did in his best year. And respect that tough love they gave me. I needed it. Maybe your son does too.

+1

 

[Joylush]

My parents gave me some tough love in my early 20's and cut me off when they saw I wasn't headed anywhere good in life. Without that I would have continued to flounder along knowing I had a lifeline.

It took that kick in the ass to realize I actually did have drive and a work ethic. And making minimum wage was not going to give me the life I wanted.

I now make 7 or 8 times what my dad ever did in his best year. And respect that tough love they gave me. I needed it. Maybe your son does too.

I’m sure there is some info missing. Why would any non- disabled 25 year be incentivized to be a productive adult if they knew they’d be supported by their parents for their entire life? That doesn’t make any sense.

 

[armor99]

Just something to consider. I have a cousin living in NYC that is now 50. He never left home. And his parents just did not love him enough to push him out when he was younger.
He has no life, or friends to speak of. How can he? He has no common frame of reference to speak with other normal 50 year old people.
His life is literally ruined. And he is probably too old at this point to change things much. The patterns are just too engrained.
In your efforts to keep him from pain in the short term, you are chaining him to a life of misery. I promise you, if you push on him, and make him go out, and make his own way in the world, he will thank you for it later in life. Please take this in the spirit in which it is given. One of fear and concern for your son, not anger or malice against him.

 

[pb4uski]

+1 It is hard to describe the positive psychological benefits of working and having a job and having your own money.... DS would have been content to sit at home and play video games if we had let him but we nudged him out of the nest.... and he is a much better person today as a result.

I like the idea of the Guard too.

Even with a full time job DS finds plenty of time to play video games.

 

[ivinsfan]

First, without a job, he would not be able to rent a place to live.

Second, we are afraid that bad things might happen to him when he is out there alone, runs out of money, and feels depressed.

He actually mentioned moving out, we just did not feel that now is the correct time.

The actual comment was not someone saying he should move out. They said he should have to kick a 100 bucks week to help pay for the roof over his head...So none of those things you mentioned apply.


When you say he does something computer related is that stuff he just does and has no money return?

 

[ivinsfan]

I’m sure there is some info missing. Why would any non- disabled 25 year be incentivized to be a productive adult if they knew they’d be supported by their parents for their entire life? That doesn’t make any sense.

Apparently Mom and Dad are providing more then a bare bones living, because most 25 year olds spend money.

 

[steelyman]

We decided to take care of him no matter what.

Wouldn’t that include being there (physically present) with him to help find solutions for his needs? A place to live, a job (if necessary)? Just the steps through as part of the learning process.

 

[latexman]

Apparently Mom and Dad are providing more then a bare bones living, because most 25 year olds spend money.

How does he buy weed? That’s not cheap.

 

[The Onceler]

With full respect, you might be asking the wrong question. By my calculations, you can spend about $166,000 per year (combined for the three of you) until you and your wife both die (actuarially speaking). At that point, your son will need to fend for himself. He will be 60 years old and presumably ready to launch himself into the world. There will be no SS for him. So the best plan might be to give him his share of the $166k now to invest to support his life after you and your wife pass. That would give him a stake in his future, be non-threatening due to the distant adverse news, allow unfettered computer game skill development, and otherwise be a clear set of guidelines.

 

[jollystomper]

Yes, flexibility may be helpful. I am thinking to start low at $100,000 per year, which is actually tighter than what we would like to spend.

My son is not interested in investing at this time. But I hope he will learn when he is really matured.

Also with respect, this is what stood out.

Your money to support yourselves is fine. But you cannot control his behavior once it becomes his money. And without him having an interest to preserve that money, all of your planning for him will be wasted.

There are many stories of children blowing large 7 figure inheritances in a few years. Not just their spending. But once others find out they have money (do not assume he will keep it "secret", people like to brag), and realize they are naive/not protective of it... they will get a whole new set of "friends", even "lovers", who are there for the purpose of spending "other peoples money".

One of our sons friends received around a $500K inheritance from a deceased parent, no strings attached. It took about 3 years for them to run through that. Even our son, who was not good with money himself at the time, tried to tell his friend to slow down and think about saving some of it. But he was in the minority of voices the friend heard.

This is just one example, I have direct and indirect (through family, friends, and co-workers) knowledge of at least a dozen similar cases over the years, with greater amounts in play.

In truth, as you choose to go this route, I would spend less time analyzing what you can spend, as you will be fine - and more time trying to educate/guide your son on the proper management of money and not just rely on "hope".

 

[RobbieB]

Anyone with a computer science degree could (and should) be raking in the dough right now.

 

[flyingaway]

I did not say that my son will never work or make any money.

I am just planning for the worst case, similar to many of you here planning for a 50% drop in the market some day.

 

[ivinsfan]

I did not say that my son will never work or make any money.

I am just planning for the worst case, similar to many of you here planning for a 50% drop in the market some day.

Well you know a kid that decides never to work is not a worst case scenario, it's one you are inflicting on yourself. I suggest you do you and let your boy do him.



It's in no way comparable to a 50% market drop which doesn't have a chance in heck of happening.

 

[Steeler75]

+1 It is hard to describe the positive psychological benefits of working and having a job and having your own money....


+1000

I still vividly recall the time I first moved out of the nest and purchased a condo (never pay rent). I remember going to My fridge, making a ham sandwich with My food, and sitting down at My table in My home. It was the most amazing feeling of independence I’ve ever known…. Huge psychological benefit.

 

[GravitySucks]

Firecalc is not liberal or conservative. It's just historical record.

I'd say $200k for you and spouses life.
Good sequence of return and son can keep the 200k withdraw. Bad sequence he'll have to live on $50k a year.

 

[youbet]

I am not interested in comments about if we should take care of him. We decided to take care of him no matter what.

I had to chuckle when I read this flyingaway! The chance of folks being able to keep the conversation relating only to the numbers and not on the subjective/gossipy subject of how to raise and relate to a child is generally zero here.

 

[ivinsfan]

I had to chuckle when I read this flyingaway! The chance of folks being able to keep the conversation relating only to the numbers and not on the subjective/gossipy subject of how to raise and relate to a child is generally zero here.

When it comes to retirement this is a pretty important subject...but it's like mentioning something and telling someone "don't think about that" it never works.


It's not subjective that the OP will need a much bigger nest egg, if it's for 3 people for 70 years.