I just bought VFINX today

[brewer12345]

Also, I really don't like to trade, I'm more of a buy and hold type.

So, you don't want to trade, but you like to buy mutual funds that do a lot of trading?

 

[AirJordan]

So, you don't want to trade, but you like to buy mutual funds that do a lot of trading?

Not the case at all, I own FAIRX, DODFX, VPCCX, FBRVX, which all have turnover rates of 15% or less if I can remember correctly. No point owning funds in a taxable account, if the capital gains just eat you alive

 

[lswswein]

I would mick, but I don't have the time, and effort to pick stocks, and find great ipo's, or undervalued companies. Picking mutual funds is what I'm content doing.

Stats say that it is more difficult to pick fund than stocks.

Total # of mutual funds: 8905
Total # of stocks: NYSE: 2900, AMEX:837, NASDAQ: 3000

-h

 

[AirJordan]

Stats say that it is more difficult to pick fund than stocks.

Total # of mutual funds: 8905
Total # of stocks: NYSE: 2900, AMEX:837, NASDAQ: 3000

-h

Woooow, such a compelling argument, and so well thought out. If you think picking funds is harder than stocks, then you're out of your mind

 

[lswswein]

Woooow, such a compelling argument, and so well thought out. If you think picking funds is harder than stocks, then you're out of your mind

Well you did disprove it it with an even better argument didn't you!
You know where I stand on the topic

-h

 

[Alex]

10k DODFX (Dodge and Cox)
8k RYVPX (Royce Value Plus)
5k FAIRX (Fairholme)
5k JSVAX (Janus Contrarian)
5k FBRVX (FBR Small Cap)
5k ARTKX (Artisan Small Cap)
10k VPCCX (Primecap Core)
10k PREOX (Perrit Emerging Ops.)

Beating Indexes is EZ

Also, I really don't like to trade, I'm more of a buy and hold type. I don't believe that panicing got anyone anywhere, and timing the market is too hard. If I wanted to trade I'd play with equities, but the consensus of the board is I'm not that smart...

That's funny, you just said you traded in and out of VFINX, so what's the truth?

 

[AirJordan]

That's funny, you just said you traded in and out of VFINX, so what's the truth?

Sorry sarcasm is a bit hard to portray over the internets

 

[unclemick]

AJ - have no idea whether you have a dryer sense of humor than mine and are playing the perfect foil. Let's hope we don't convince you too soon - and miss the opportunity to put up our experience and the results of recent academic research for those interested to peruse.

So at least you recognize chasing the 'value premium' or at least contrarian(dare I say RTM), low turnover, low expense ratio puts the odds more on your side.

heh heh heh - even if the odds are agin ya - there are enough winners every generation to keep the game afoot. Of course if all you want to do is retire after persuing a career/family etc - pssst Target Retirement - dollar cost average, use all tax favorable vehicles availible(401k, IRA, Roth,etc.) and when the time comes -Retire. With the new lifecycle funds - it's stone simple - of course most can't resist putzing - it's incurable and hormonal - but you could possibly work it off with a kayak - or a few individual stocks.

Or poker - lest I forget!

 

[yakers]

heh heh heh - even if the odds are agin ya - there are enough winners every generation to keep the game afoot. Of course if all you want to do is retire after persuing a career/family etc - pssst Target Retirement - dollar cost average, use all tax favorable vehicles availible(401k, IRA, Roth,etc.) and when the time comes -Retire.


but you could possibly work it off with a kayak - or a few individual stocks.

Damn, unclemick just released my secret retirement plan Just about everybody seems to miss the kayak part....

 

[HFWR]

10k DODFX (Dodge and Cox)
8k RYVPX (Royce Value Plus)
5k FAIRX (Fairholme)
5k JSVAX (Janus Contrarian)
5k FBRVX (FBR Small Cap)
5k ARTKX (Artisan Small Cap)
10k VPCCX (Primecap Core)
10k PREOX (Perrit Emerging Ops.)

Beating Indexes is EZ

Also, I really don't like to trade, I'm more of a buy and hold type. I don't believe that panicing got anyone anywhere, and timing the market is too hard. If I wanted to trade I'd play with equities, but the consensus of the board is I'm not that smart...

Returns? Expenses?

 

[ERD50]

10k DODFX (Dodge and Cox)

Beating Indexes is EZ

Yep, so easy.

But, then why didn't DODFX (the first on your list and the first I checked ) beat their index?

Dodge & Cox International Stock (DODFX)

Vanguard Emerging Mkts Stock Idx (VEIEX) - The investment seeks to track the performance of the Select Emerging Markets Free index. The fund employs a passively managed investment approach....

-ERD50

 

[LOL!]

Let me try to be the first to point out that DODFX is not an emerging market fund. It is an international value fund much like VTRIX or NIVAX.

 

[donheff]

Damn, unclemick just released my secret retirement plan Just about everybody seems to miss the kayak part....

Mine too. I'm going snowboarding with my son on Friday. It is nice to be free.

 

[ERD50]

Let me try to be the first to point out that DODFX is not an emerging market fund. It is an international value fund much like VTRIX or NIVAX.

OK, maybe it isn't the best match, but I guess that could be said about *any* managed fund. Else, it would be an index fund - right?

Dodge & Cox International Stock - FUND SUMMARY
The investment seeks long-term growth of principal and income. The fund generally invest at least 80% of assets in a diversified portfolio of equity securities issued by non-U.S. companies from at least three different countries, including emerging markets.

I'm still waiting for AJ to show that past performance is a predictor of future performance. It's not very challenging to come up with a list of funds that performed well in the past. It's even easier with stocks.

-ERD50

 

[2B]

really, i am serious. wouldn't a good manager be able to beat an index fund? wouldn't a manager be able to spot problems with individual stocks, etc?

You have been neglecting your reading, grasshopper.

 

[2B]

I suggest you read "The four Pillars of Investing" by William Berstein. All of your answers will be in there.

I am anal-retentive and I found that book tedious. I like the details and numbers. NYL is a sophisticated and educated woman. It could kill her.

 

[2B]

You guys should seriously have a throw down with the people at Motley Fool, Fund Alarm, and M-Star, they all swear by actively managed funds, but hey 1 out of 4 ain't bad

I own Dodge and Cox International fund -- my only non-index fund. I own it because of its performance. It has been one of the 20% for every time period I've looked at. Of course, the minute the indexes start beating it internationally, it's toast.

Domestic funds that beat their index are hard, if not impossible, to find.

 

[LOL!]

.... NYL is a sophisticated and educated woman. It could kill her.

She's a lawyer. She has read worse before just by virtue of her career. If such text could kill her, she would be dead already.

 

[Alex]

Sorry sarcasm is a bit hard to portray over the internets

the internets? plural?

Anyway its not hard at all - they have these emoticons that make it real simple ---------> :<-------------- that one is sarcasm.

 

[sgeeeee]

10k DODFX (Dodge and Cox)
8k RYVPX (Royce Value Plus)
5k FAIRX (Fairholme)
5k JSVAX (Janus Contrarian)
5k FBRVX (FBR Small Cap)
5k ARTKX (Artisan Small Cap)
10k VPCCX (Primecap Core)
10k PREOX (Perrit Emerging Ops.)

Beating Indexes is EZ

Also, I really don't like to trade, I'm more of a buy and hold type. I don't believe that panicing got anyone anywhere, and timing the market is too hard. If I wanted to trade I'd play with equities, but the consensus of the board is I'm not that smart...

I'm willing to accept that you are just as smart as John Galt (one of this board's Mensa members), so I want to learn from you. Please let me know how to apply superior knowledge to choose funds that beat the index funds. I am in a very different situation than you are in, so I can't imagine that the same solution that is optimum for you is optimum for me, but I would think that if I understood the criteria you used to choose funds, I could apply it to my situation. I am older with considerably more money than you have. I am married with a small mortgage. I am retired and both my DW and I are entitled to small pension benefits starting several years from now. Can your method work for me?

What is your criteria for choosing this suite of funds? You mentioned past performance in a couple of previous posts, how much past performance did you consider? Are there other criteria?

Do you anticipate holding these same funds for the rest of your life? for several decades? for 5 years? Whatever your timeframe, if you go back that many years and apply the same criteria, would have chosen the exact same suite of funds? If not, what is going to be your trigger to trade these funds for others?

 

[Texas Proud]

It seems like DODFX is doing pretty great.... not a bad pick if you are going for managed funds...

But I don't know what index to compare it to.... so I don't know if it is beating its index or not..

so, for picking.. not bad IMO...

Seems to track the Total International Index the last two years.... but was better for the last 5...

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=VGTSX&t=2y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=dodfx

 

[Alex]

I'm willing to accept that you are just as smart as John Galt (one of this board's Mensa members), so I want to learn from you. Please let me know how to apply superior knowledge to choose funds that beat the index funds. I am in a very different situation than you are in, so I can't imagine that the same solution that is optimum for you is optimum for me, but I would think that if I understood the criteria you used to choose funds, I could apply it to my situation. I am older with considerably more money than you have. I am married with a small mortgage. I am retired and both my DW and I are entitled to small pension benefits starting several years from now. Can your method work for me?

What is your criteria for choosing this suite of funds? You mentioned past performance in a couple of previous posts, how much past performance did you consider? Are there other criteria?

Do you anticipate holding these same funds for the rest of your life? for several decades? for 5 years? Whatever your timeframe, if you go back that many years and apply the same criteria, would have chosen the exact same suite of funds? If not, what is going to be your trigger to trade these funds for others?

 

[REWahoo]

It seems like DODFX is doing pretty great.... not a bad pick if you are going for managed funds...

But I don't know what index to compare it to.... so I don't know if it is beating its index or not..

According to the Dodge & Cox website, DODFX is compared to the MSCI EAFE Index. The fund started in 2001 and beat the index at the 1,3 and 5 year points.

http://www.dodgeandcox.com/performance/index.shtml

 

[DRiP Guy]

the internets? plural?

Yeah, everyone knows it's properly 'teh intarwebs'. Sheesh.


[mutters to self... 'A series of tubes... tubes... a series of tubes...']

 

[DRiP Guy]

..the consensus of the board is I'm not that smart...

I'd hazard we could extend that unanimity to well beyond just the board...



["Oh, look what I got mommy - a troll!" "That's nice, dear. Now put it back..."]