Winemaker
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
The new proposal may actually make large Roth conversions impossible, as the conversion amount is not backed out of the Adjusted Taxable Income Amount, and would push you over the income limit amount.
The rules will be changed to align them with the original intent of the program and address unintended consequences of some people using the rules for a benefit that wasn't intended. There is no punishment... just no continued benefit once the account balance eclipses a certain amount... though I can see that some who might be impacted might view the curtailment of a benefit as punishment... but suck it up buttercup.
Stop whining and start "wine"ing.
Yes, it took 40 years to correct an unintended benefit. Actually, the unintended benefit has been apparent for some time but the political gears of government often turn slowly.So it took 40 years to to correct an unintended benefit? I don't think so.
Just a lot of jealousy out there. ...
Yes, it took 40 years to correct an unintended benefit. Actually, the unintended benefit has been apparent for some time but the political gears of government often turn slowly.
IMO, if one thinks it is jealously then they are a little too full of themselves.
...
I've also never understood why IRA's are limited to $7000 contributions (over 50) but 401K's are allowed to contribute $19500? The same limits should apply to both. Why should I have a lower limit just because my employer doesn't offer a 401K?
.....
+1
That seems so unfair and simple to fix.
I was caught by that, due to employer not having a 401K. Also caught by when the employer had a 401K, but it was no matching, and not really good choices. Still contributed as could put in much more than in an IRA.
It affects workers whose employer doesn't have a 401K or has a lousy (expensive) 401K.
....And why put an upper limit on the size of thes accounts? ...
I am wondering about the ban on conversion of after-tax money from tIRAs to Roth IRAs starting in 2022. I have an IRA that has about 8% after-tax money and I've been slowly converting it since I retired 5 years ago. (This is an old account that had both after-tax and pre-tax money in it way before Roth IRAs and conversions were invented.) The current rules are that the funds have to be convered pro-rata, so 8% of every conversion is tax-free.
I am curious about whether I would be prohibited from converting any of these funds in the future, or if the pro-rata rule just goes away and all conversions come from the pre-tax money. I haven't gone to find the actual text of the bill, and the summaries I've read don't cover this case, so if anyone has seen something that's more detailed than "no more back-door Roth conversions", I would appreciate a link to the info.
Unfortunately, that's not the point.... under your thinking there shouldn't be RMDs at all because that IRA money would still be taxed within 10 years if the owner or spouse dying.^^^ But it still will be taxed within 10 years of the death of the owner and/or spouse. Uncle Sam still gets his money.
The Kitces article linked above covers this as well as any and says you won't be able to convert. There's no text in the bill getting rid of the pro-rata rule, so you must convert your after-tax money pro-rata as you make conversions, but the new rule would be you can't convert your after-tax money. So no conversions would be possible for you! I'm in the same boat, years ago when savings were hard to come by in our household, I scrimped and diligently saved and put a little after-tax money in my IRA. This would make that move disastrous.
Perhaps you could still do conversions if you abandoned all claim to any of the money being after tax, but then you are simply letting them tax you twice on the same money. Talk about unfair!
Considering that federal government is spending "trillions", with more multi-trillion spending bills on the way, just how much tax do they think they will collect from all the punish the rich schemes? Someone above quoted $279 "billion" sitting in "mega-IRAs. Those are not going to generate taxes more than a mere fraction of only $1 trillion. I think "punish the rich" tax schemes are counter productive when all is said and done. My opinion.
I don't have a problem with any of those proposals.... the whole IRA program was intended to allow middle income taxpayers to save for retirement with an incentive of tax savings.
Given their very names, it should be obvious that the backdoors were not intended and should be closed and locked.
I also don't have any problems with restrictions on IRAs above certain limits.
DawgMan, I don't feel you are taking advantage of loopholes. You are taking advantage of a "backdoor" method which is permitted under the existing law. Once I saw the trigger word "loophole" introduced near the beginning of this thread, the discussion turned away from the substance of the article, I believe. This happens in most discussions. But then things get back on point.
I have no problem with tax law evolving, either.
So could I gently suggest that we continue this helpful discussion while not using these loaded terms?
I think this is just going to add more layers of complexity to the tax codes.
Not that I will in my lifetime get into the "over $400k annual income" club. But as is (most) often the case with IRS "rules", that $400k cutoff today may become $200k the next time the rich aren't deemed to be paying enough. Then $100k the time after that, then soon it applies to everyone.