Is this Amount of Income Enough to Retire Early On?

[simple girl]

1, one, a single, cat. teeth cleaned @ $1000?

i never heard of cleaning a cat's teeth. that is a very large sum of money that if it was 1 time every 10 years i'd still question it but something tells me it is a lot more frequent than that.

Cats' teeth can need cleaning, and more often than once a decade, too, but I think bamsphd's vet is extraordinarily expensive. I would expect to be able to get two or in a pinch three cats' teeth cleaned for that kind of money!

I agree. I think my vet charged us around $250 or $300 back in 2004.

 

[bamsphd]

Cats' teeth can need cleaning, and more often than once a decade, too, but I think bamsphd's vet is extraordinarily expensive

Our "regular vet" actually offers teeth cleaning for considerably less money. As I understand it, they don't have a dentist on staff, they host a traveling dentist a few days a month. However, five years ago or so, our cat Tigger developed kidney failure and other issues very shortly after having his teeth cleaned. We don't know if there was a causal connection in Tigger's case. However, my wife blames our eventually losing Tigger in part on that dental procedure, and she is not going to let a traveling dentist treat another of our pets.

So instead she drives almost an hour down into Mass to visit http://www.veterinarydental.com/ which is a specialized dentist only vet. I will freely admit they seem to do very nice, if pricey, work. You may not always get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get. However, the really expensive part is that they advocate routine yearly cleaning! They try to anchor you with the idea that human dentists recommend twice yearly cleanings, and that because pets can not tell you when they are in pain you should not postpone visits for too long. I'm always pushing to let the local vet decide when cleanings are needed instead, since the local vet's standards are much more minimalist. However, I don't always succeed. As far as my wife is concerned, the pets always get the best. Getting her to go to the doctor for herself is a challenge, but she is practically a hypochondriac when it comes to the pets.

Amen. The dear wife spent $1k+ today to have one of our cats teeth cleaned, which is a recurring expense for all four cats and the dog

Update: The final dental vet bill for the cat was just under $900, though the total dental vet bill just broke $1k. However, the total bill also included a "dental evaluation" of our dog, and some over-priced dental treats.

However, yesterday the dear wife also ended up taking another cat to our regular vet because it was throwing up after almost every meal for the past few days. So that cat got sedation, an exam, X-rays, ultrasound, and had blood drawn for tests. At least she pushed back on boarding the cat overnight! She mentioned the sedation cost about $150, and the ultrasound about $300, but I don't know the grand total. Perhaps just as well. The vet did not find anything. For now we are giving over-the-counter Pepcid, and a "bland" chicken and rice diet. Hopefully the cat will get better on its own, or the blood tests will show something easy to treat. If not, I already know my wife will be taking the cat to http://www.intownmassvet.com/ a "referral" vet down in Mass. I will freely admit they are a very very good vet. Probably the best I've ever seen. I also like it that they work to solve your issue and then hope to never see you again! However, they are also not shy about charging.

Wives and pets can sure be expensive. Even when you get your pets at the animal shelter.

If I didn't have to cover medical expenses for me, my wife, our dog and our cats, I would probably be able to retire today.

 

[travelover]

Now that we have totally hijacked this thread , I'll mention that I occasionally descale my dog's teeth with dental tools that you can buy at Target. They are stainless steel and look like the dental tools your dentist uses. It is important to be gentle and not scratch the enamel on the tooth.

For cats, this procedure probably requires heavy leather gloves.

 

[plex]

Um, my parents cat was close to having kidney failure, and my parents only had to spend $500 for a full array of tests (including hydration). This was over the course of three visits, and included a ton of specialized medicine/food (she basically had stopped eating for a long time on her own and needed to be force fed at home for three weeks). The hydration was useful, but the tests were not, I ended up figuring out what it was before the vet did .

 

[hankster]

Is living in an inexpensive part of the country pretty much the whole secret of the sub-$20K budget? Too bad for me if it is, because I don't know of anywhere else I'd want to live. If push comes to shove, I guess I am willing to pay extra to live in WA.

Come on over to the [-]dark[/-] dry side of the [-]Everbrown[/-] Evergreen state. Cheap livin' over here as long as you can put up with the dry, dusty summers, colder winters, the..... oops, this is starting to sound like REWahoo promoting his area of residence

 

[NW-Bound]

Is living in an inexpensive part of the country pretty much the whole secret of the sub-$20K budget? Too bad for me if it is, because I don't know of anywhere else I'd want to live. If push comes to shove, I guess I am willing to pay extra to live in WA.

Oh, come on! You are a loaded lady. http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/enough-waffling-already-50793.html

Shouldn't you be fine somewhere around the Puget Sound with that money? It seems to me if one does not demand to be near the water, there should be plenty of towns where it is not too expensive to live, like Sequim or Port Angeles. Those towns are not too big to be crowded, nor too small to lack amenities. Of course I was only a visitor and might have the wrong impression.

 

[kyounge1956]

Come on over to the [-]dark[/-] dry side of the [-]Everbrown[/-] Evergreen state. Cheap livin' over here as long as you can put up with the dry, dusty summers, colder winters, the..... oops, this is starting to sound like REWahoo promoting his area of residence

It is cheaper east of the mountains, but I'm not going to move there. I got my fill of hot, dry and brown when I lived in California. Eastern WA has all those faults and lacks CA's compensating merit of mild winters.

I remember reading an article a long time ago, in which the author asserted that the state line between WA & OR is in the wrong place and really ought to run along the Cascade ridge instead of the Columbia River, because as it is now, western OR & WA have a lot more in common with each other than with the other halves of their respective states, and likewise with the parts of each state east of the mountains.

 

[kyounge1956]

Oh, come on! You are a loaded lady. http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/enough-waffling-already-50793.html

Shouldn't you be fine somewhere around the Puget Sound with that money? It seems to me if one does not demand to be near the water, there should be plenty of towns where it is not too expensive to live, like Sequim or Port Angeles. Those towns are not too big to be crowded, nor too small to lack amenities. Of course I was only a visitor and might have the wrong impression.

Sequim and Port Angeles are not all that much less expensive than other parts of the country—City-Data gives them a cost of living index of 96 and 92.1 respectively (100 is the national average). If you want economical living in western WA, you go somewhere like Aberdeen or Hoquiam in Gray's Harbor County (index of 87.5 for the county). And Seattle, at 126.3, makes everywhere else (except San Francisco) look cheap!

 

[packrat44]

Amen. The dear wife spent $1k+ today to have one of our cats teeth cleaned, which is a recurring expense for all four cats and the dog, despite our brushing their teeth twice a day!

That is the business I want to go into. If you allocate 30 minutes per cleaning - 16 cleanings a day - $16k/day. Work 3 days/yr would support retirement. If you want a new car, work an extra 1 1/2 - 2 days.

 

[bamsphd]

That is the business I want to go into. If you allocate 30 minutes per cleaning - 16 cleanings a day - $16k/day. Work 3 days/yr would support retirement. If you want a new car, work an extra 1 1/2 - 2 days.

You do have to also pay for equipment, the dental assistant, the receptionist, the rent, .... It also takes longer than 30 minutes per cleaning.

P.S.
The other cat did not get better on its own. It was eventually taken to the MA Vet Referral Hospital where a second ultrasound found what turned out to be a chunk of rubber chew toy stuck in its intestine. The good news is that yesterday it had its surgical staples removed, seemed all better, and was finally released from post-surgical confinement. The bad news is it threw up twice this morning, so the story might not be done. This month alone, that 2 year old cat from the shelter has run up almost $4k in vet bills, and it is not even the cat that got its teeth cleaned!

 

[packrat44]

bamspd,

Just messing with you a little.

I know it is not all income directly to the vets pocket. My father shut his practice as a surgeon upon turning 65. He wanted to continue work at 1/2 time, however, malpractice insurance, receptionist, office expense, etc. meant he would have little or no take-home.

 

[NW-Bound]

Back on the original question of the OP about living on $20K/yr, I rediscovered a thread where people discussed the budget for $36K/yr.

I will concede that I am not frugal enough for $20K, though I have shared a link earlier about a woman full-time RV'er who is having a great time on that budget, which also includes her medical insurance premium.

But a $36K budget should be more doable by most "spendthrifts" out there. No?

The following thread was a lot of fun back then: http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/retire-on-3k-per-month-thoughts-15451.html

 

[jacob]

I just discovered this thread.

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: It depends. It's a lot like asking whether it's possible to swim 4 kilometers. If you don't know how to swim, it's obviously impossible. If you're a beginner for whom swimming a lane is still a struggle, 4k corresponds to the "in your dreams" scenario. If you're an intermediate swimmer with semi-efficient technique, 4k is something you'd have to work up to over a year or two, but it's possible. Many do this for iron man triathlons. If you're an elite level competitive swimmer, 4k is "yeah, sure, it'll take me an hour or so".

Like with swimming there's a skill to spending money. Some do it more efficiently than others. A consumer who spends money every time there is a need and does it in the most convenient way possible knowing no other way is like the swimmer who can barely make a lane. This person will purchase things without considering the price. He will hire people to fix his things for him. He will pay before considering other options. Entertainment = buying stuff or spending money. Doing things = paying others to do them for you. Most people have been "trained" to be like this.

Conversely, if you're resourceful or become that way, you will only rarely pay others to fix things for you, because you know how to fix them yourself. You will know which supermarket offers the most value for the money. You will grow some food yourself. Entertainment is free and mostly revolves around doing and makings things rather than consuming them or "watching them."

So the answer is similar to swimming 4k. It's possible to live well on 20k/year in some intermediate producer/consumer state if you're willing to put in a few years of learning and rearrange your priorities a bit. As a 100% consumer, the answer is no. I know people who blow $20k within 3-4 months on their various payments just to stay afloat. Conversely, $20k would last me about 3 years.

Thinking there are some things that can't be done without money is thinking like a consumer. To give an example. I crew on racing yachts. This means I go sailing once a week (30-35 footers). Total one time cost: $500 in safety gear. The intermediate solution is $3000 in keel boat certificates; a $5000 yacht club membership and $1000 in trendy foul weather pants and jackets. Then add $400 to charter a boat for a day and try to gather 5 of your friends to sail it. The expensive solution is to buy a $100,000 boat on credit, possibly docked on the other side of the country, and pay the ship yard to maintain it.

Life is similar to this.

So the answer depends on which person you want to be.

 

[freebird5825]

Amen. The dear wife spent $1k+ today to have one of our cats teeth cleaned, which is a recurring expense for all four cats and the dog, despite our brushing their teeth twice a day!..

Cough..sputter...say WHAT ?

Dry food only is a better alternative for domestic pet dental health.

 

[BLS53]

To me, the main sacrifices are in housing and cars. If one can change their mindset in those two areas, living on $20K a year isn't that difficult for a single person.

 

[Eladio]

Jacob's right again.

There are so many areas in life and spending where people don't even consider all of the options.

 

[Midpack]

To me, the main sacrifices are in housing and cars. If one can change their mindset in those two areas, living on $20K a year isn't that difficult for a single person.

I agree completely, if you can keep housing (and directly associated expenses), cars and food under control, you have the basis for keeping expenses reasonable.

 

[scrabbler1]

To me, the main sacrifices are in housing and cars. If one can change their mindset in those two areas, living on $20K a year isn't that difficult for a single person.

Furthermore, and you may be implying this anyway, if you remain childfree you can keep a lid on your expenses. Mine are about $21.5k for a single person without children.

 

[BunsGettingFirm]

I have seen forum members come up with some rather narrow definitions of what they would consider successful retirement. If a forum member admits to having a spouse who works part time, then he/she is not retired. If a member admits that he can pick up part time gigs, then he's not retired. Basically anything short of having a pension and/or a stash and then being able to do nothing but pleasant things for the rest of one's life is derided as not true retirement. This narrow definition is the kind of thinking that ties a lot of people to well-paying but unpleasant or boring jobs because they think to themselves, "I can't quit this job because I have to have a huge stash because I want to never, ever work again and live on 4% of my stash for the next 40+ years." This kind of thinking is actually contrary to financial planning basics because the ability to pick up extra income is a degree of flexibility and a thus plus in retirement planning. It's an option that's not available to the truly disabled for instance.

I don't know about other people, but I got bored after 3 weeks of vacation. I was in a beautiful beach town hanging out with my own beach bunny, drinking beer and eating well-prepared meals on the beach, BSing with friends, doing exciting things such as motorcycle riding, 4 wheeling, dancing, and taking canopy trips. If I had any down time, I read books and posted on this forum. By the last couple of days though, I knew that I had enough because all those things started to dull. Yes, I know. It's amazing what I can be bored with.

Thinking back on the past 40 years, I realized that I have never done anything for close to 40 years straight, not a job, not a particular school, not a place to live, or not even a really demanding hobby. I can't imagine that I'd want to do nothing but ride my bicycle, surf, run, read books for 40+ years straight.

On the flip side, I know that I don't want to mad dash through life working, working, working, saving, saving, saving while not enjoying a moment all in the hope of that magical moment when I hit my number and then doing the exact opposite of working, working, working for the next 40 years. It's like saying I am really sleep deprived, so I'm going to sleep for the next 98 hours. It's not possible, and it is not necessary.

Instead of scaring every poster who shows up with a 1% withdrawal rate or a set of huge expenses, how about we at least allow the possibility that retirement is not some final decision that one makes and sticks with for the rest of one's life? Things change sometimes for the worse and sometimes for the better, but as long as we can do something about it, then preparing a portfolio for 3 consecutive Great Depressions is not really necessary. Heck, if 3 Great Depressions occurred in a row, even if you had held on to that job, saved more, you'd be screwed.

 

[haha]

I think you may be seeing this through a specialized vision. At a time when it may be hard for young, well trained people to get a good job, a lot of older people who have good jobs, who don't necessarily want to live "extreme retirement", who may have spouses that have much more convential ideas about what constitutes a proper lifestyle are well advised to find out just exactly what situation the person advising him to "go for it" has. Once they cut that cord, it just may stay cut.

No one thinks having a working wife or husband is a moral failing, but it does change the weight to be given to advice about how to retire coming from that person.

Another thing is that you are close to 40 and single with no dependents. This is a different situation altogether from that of an older man or woman with 2 or 3 kids.

Ha

 

[BLS53]

Furthermore, and you may be implying this anyway, if you remain childfree you can keep a lid on your expenses. Mine are about $21.5k for a single person without children.

I think being child free is a given assumption for anyone attempting to live on $20K a year. Unless we're talking about someone of low abilities, who is doing the best they can to earn $20K a year.

Considering this is a retirement forum, forcing dependent children to live a reduced lifestyle, just because you don't want to work anymore is irresponsible.

On the other hand, if someone has no dependents, and has a secure lifetime income stream of $20K a year, it's a personal decision that affects no one but themselves. However, there will be critics, especially if the $20K comes from a government pension.

 

[kaudrey]

Cough..sputter...say WHAT ?

Dry food only is a better alternative for domestic pet dental health.

Unless, like me, you have a cat with a weight problem, in which case you are told by the vet to give him only wet food (less calories). BTW - I have never "overfed" him. I have two cats, and the other cat eats more food, and is at a perfect weight. This cat is just...a fat cat!

 

[BLS53]

I take in a stray cat from time to time. Providing food and shelter. But health and dental care is strictly on their own dime.

 

[haha]

I take in a stray cat from time to time. Providing food and shelter. But health and dental care is strictly on their own dime.

Better duck.

Ha

 

[Nords]

I can't imagine that I'd want to do nothing but ride my bicycle, surf, run, read books for 40+ years straight.

Hey, you gotta be responsible for your own entertainment-- especially if the alternative is looking to the office environment for your social stimulation.

I can't imagine taking on a commitment that would interfere with my enjoyment of cycling, surfing, running, and reading books for the next five or six decades.

Considering this is a retirement forum, forcing dependent children to live a reduced lifestyle, just because you don't want to work anymore is irresponsible.

I think our responsibility to our dependents is to keep them at a minimum level of safety, shelter, food, and clothing. Basic security, perhaps a half-step ahead of Child Protective Services.

I used to think that we owed our kid(s) a basic college education, but I'm backpedaling even on that. These days I think that's a great way to make sure they launch out of the nest and don't boomerang, so subsidizing a kid's college is purely from my own selfish self-interest.

Anything above that subsistence level develops an attitude of entitlement and perhaps even affluenza. I don't see anything wrong with a reduced lifestyle because the alternative is far more difficult to "cure". I'd rather raise them on the confidence that they have the skill to survive on ramen & thrift stores, rather than leaving them ignorant of those survival tactics.

I also think that teaching a daughter to survive on her own will help her avoid a lifetime of seeking the security of a succession of sugar daddies. That may be my gender bias but it seems far more common with women than men. We have a neighbor's daughter going down that path, and I think I've seen how this movie ends...