Middle, Upper Middle Class Distinction for Retirees

[REWahoo]

Yes. Help my memory. I think he might have been a writer? And this was his parting retort.

Writer? Ha!

Lawyer... (Sorry Gumby)

You are rather clueless, aren't you. SEC lawyers don't make seven-figure incomes or determine the course of human events.

But XSEC lawyers do.

And we'll do that long after you've taken down your inconsequential shingle and "retired early" because your working life is so meaningless.

I'm checking out of here for a better place, like my own blog maybe. Regret dropping in earlier this week. Didn't realize these are the lumpen slums of cyberspace.

 

[bw5972]

I also think one aspect of "class" is knowing how to act in a variety of different situations and this seems to have little to do with income or net worth.

+1

I know some financially well off but "low class" people as well as some financially challenged but truly high class folks.

 

[MichaelB]

Proud lumpen of cyberspace class here.

 

[travelover]

...................There are still working (class) dogs and cats who have to hunt or herd, but these are now the minority.

And, ironically, often the most intelligent/astute.

I'd call my greyhound astute - she retired when she was only three. I suspect that she slowed down to take the exit to the couch instead of the kennel crates.

 

[FI_RElater]

I googled and found this:

https://phoenixmi.com/wp-content/up...et-Sizing-Update-and-Millionaires-Ranking.pdf

The report uses the term affluent instead of middle class. Here is their cutoff for the different segments (on page 4 of report):

Near Affluent $100k - $249k Investable Assets
Lower Mass Affluent ($250k - $499k) Investable Assets
Upper Mass Affluent: $500k - $999k Investable Assets

Investable Assets includes educational/custodial accounts, individually owned retirement accounts, stocks, options, bonds, mutual funds, managed accounts, hedge funds, structured products, ETFs, cash accounts, annuities, and cash value of life insurance policies

I really can’t see the numbers above— way too low
{should start at 250-499 , then 500-999, with upper mass affluent 1-2 mil; 4% of 500k plus average SS gets you to a bit over average family wages while that of two mil gets one to “comfortable “ if house is paid off}

for us, we left the suburban part of the city in neighborhood where most had college degrees (next door had recently sold to couple where one was a patent attorney and the other an engineer while ours sold to a full professor at a local (well known) university). we both had grad degrees and had incomes putting us in the 33% fed tax range. Now retired to a place where the retirees might have been degreed but none of the working residents do.
With pension and assets we’re in the “comfortable” area, even without SS yet, so one would be hard pressed to define exactly what “class” we might be...

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Now retired to a place where the retirees might have been degreed but none of the working residents do. With pension and assets we’re in the “comfortable” area, even without SS yet, so one would be hard pressed to define exactly what “class” we might be...

I would say we have our own "Class" Comfortable Class! Living happily without a care... Priceless.

 

[ceciledian]

When I was a kid I asked my DF pretty much the same question. He said we were middle, middle, middle, class. Seems right to me.

I asked my dad the same thing and got the same answer. Are you my sister?

 

[haha]

I spent this morning looking around for some indication as to what designates if a retiree is Middle or Upper Middle class. What I find is mostly based on income. But assuming a retiree does not have an income as such, and lives off His/Her Net worth invested to their desired allocation (That may generate income), begs the Net Worth question. I have a feeling some people think they are in the middle class demographic when in fact they are not or are in the Upper Middle Class Demographic.

From what I have managed to find from checking Google etc. is that those aged 55-64 with a net worth of between $843k and $2.8m put one in that category. I am asking here as most people in this group, I would think (Assumption) fall somewhere in that group or above. Let us also assume that include a paid off residence.

Is this a good indication of Upper Middle Class in the case of a retiree? I have also not included SS or Pensions as we do not take those yet and fall into the 55-64 demographic.

I would be interested in the opinions of folk here.

My opinion is that this is just bs. If you want to feel superior to others, why not just brag like the rest of us peons? Bragging is a well developed sport, understood by all and widely practiced right here on this forum, as well as in every grade school and high school. No need to complicate things!

 

[ikubak]

By the OPs stated standards, I am UMC but I practice the strategy of artificial poverty to keep taxes low and health insurance very low. I’m ok with everyone thinking I am a bum.

 

[splitwdw]

I think that the government should set the definitions and then that information should be on your identification papers like driver's license and passport. Also, it would end any ambiguity. If you came into a little more money you could appeal for a higher classification.

Geeze, by this definition my dog is Upper Class.

Made my day, you are classy!

 

[Dash man]

I think it’s best to be humble and to forget these classes that divide us into groups of more or less successful or not. We can’t take it with us.

 

[Bir48die]

Well, I flew economy for years. Then I was kinda special and flew economy plus. But once in awhile I was bumped to first class. So then I became confused whether I was middle class, upper middle class or top of the class.

 

[steadystate]

This thread brings to mind a niggling annoying tendency of mine to wonder exactly how I compare to the population frequenting this site. Indicating some insecurity I realize. Judging by the numerous passive-bragging posts in the "introductions" forum, with $5M+ nesteggs, giant pensions, massive real estate and such, I don't stack up so well. On the other hand, maybe ER's of more modest means don't make similar posts; I guess that makes sense.

It would be fun to see detailed demographics, but that is very hard info to reliably extract from website polling.

Note to self: stop comparing to others! (I never listen to myself, though)

 

[Meadbh]

Class is all about the stairs, really!

https://youtu.be/r5dMlXentLw

 

[rodi]

I think the tendency in the US is for everyone to consider themselves middle class. I used to get in arguments with coworkers about this - couples with 2 professional careers, living in pricey homes, and taking great vacations each year... spending boatloads of money on enrichment/educational opportunities for their kids, driving BMWs to work... I'd say they were upper middle at the lowest... and they'd argue they were middle to lower middle. My kids attend a magnet school that is in an urban neighborhood. (read that diverse ethnically and economically - including lots of free lunch kids). So they see that we aren't stressed living paycheck to paycheck, the way some of their classmates' families are.

We live a comfortable upper middle class life on less than many here.... In part because we have a paid off home and don't mind older cars and have taught clotheshorse son to shop at Goodwill. (He'd love to have an unlimited budget for designer clothes.)

We have 'enough'.... not so much we don't think about our purchases and shop for the best price... but not worried about whether we'll be able to pay our bills.

 

[volfan]

In a sense it doesn't matter. But, I was actually thinking about this the other day. Class has a number of factors to it. Income is part of it, but so is education. Some activities are more tied to certain "classes" than others. Some of the people I know who say class doesn't matter are people who were raised in one class and stayed there. It can be different if you changed.



I was raised in the working class. I lived in a neighborhood where most people had good jobs that didn't require a college degree. When I went away to law school I was suddenly around people who grew up in a very different environment. And, yes, there was a gulf at times between what I knew and thought and what those around me knew and thought. There was a difference between middle class (what I had considered myself growing up) and upper middle class (what I felt everyone around me was when I was working).



When DH and I were working full time we had upper middle class incomes and lived in that type of neighborhood. Maybe because of my upbringing we always did some things that were more middle classy. I liked chain restaurants that some of the people I knew barely even knew existed.



But, now with DH retired and me working only a few hours a month it is different. Our income is definitely a middle class income. We have more assets, of course, than most people earning that income for a living.



We are planning to move soon and I have thought about this when moving. We want to downsize and want a less expensive home. We currently live in one of those upper middle class gated enclaves. So most of the people in the neighborhood probably have college degrees. A few may not who have incomes though that are higher than average.



But, I was looking at some houses where we plan to move. The area is very safe. That isn't an issue. It is close to amenities. Within a very short distance is a very high income area that we don't want to buy in because we don't want to spend that much money on a house. Back when we were working we would have done that.



So, this area I am looking at has some smaller houses (which we want) and is safe, etc. But, I looked at the demographics and it has a very middle income average income. Only 1% or so of the people have graduate degrees. It is very clearly a middle class area. And, I did wonder what it would be like. Would I fit in with the neighbors? I mean in terms of interests and stuff like that. It was very clear years ago that I didn't fit in that well with the part of my family that didn't go to college and stayed in the same/similar areas that I grew up in. I still loved them as family, but we had little to talk about once we got past family stuff. So, I do worry a bit about moving into an area where we may not have that much in common with neighbors.



That said, I don't want to pay to live in the kind of area I would have lived in 15 years ago.

Well said and thought provoking, Katsmeow. Perhaps if the same neighborhood was retirees instead of working families more people would have similar educational backgrounds and interests because they could all be millionaires living off their 4-5%. Unfortunately where I live downsizing from just 2200 to 1600 sq ft would put me in the same predicament, and we aren't in an affluent neighborhood to begin with.

 

[racy]

Geeze, by this definition my dog is Upper Class.

+1 I spend more on my dog's meds than mine. When the dog passes my expenses will decrease 4%!

 

[bbbamI]

I often feel that I've set my sights too high when I aspire to reach Lower Class.

 

[Floridatennisplayer]

What does it matter to anyone? Nothing. Knowing someone has a lot more money than me or someone who has a lot less means nothing. Are you super rich? Good for you.... it doesn’t matter. both of us are going to die anyway and we won’t take a penny of it with us. I only care about a persons character. If you are a jerk and Rich or a jerk and poor I have no desire to hang around with you. You can’t buy class.

 

[Cessna152]

Good grief. We really love talking about this stuff don't we?

(Not a criticism; merely an observation.)

This is the cyber space equivalent of the park bench where retirees hang out, after all! What else is there to do? Put on your 3D VR glasses and join in....

 

[gerntz]

As I drive my rusted 2001 Acura through the streets of Scottsdale, Az, I get some condescending looks from the Bentley and Ferrari drivers -definitely appalled by my “lower class”.

Laugh at em. Who cares?

 

[NW-Bound]

I often feel that I've set my sights too high when I aspire to reach Lower Class.

There's something lower? No Class?

 

[NW-Bound]

This is the cyber space equivalent of the park bench where retirees hang out, after all! What else is there to do? Put on your 3D VR glasses and join in....

Look how the men and women do not mingle.

 

[NW-Bound]

Maybe not, but it certainly changes the perceived affluence level. And that is all that class is - one’s perception of how others live.

As I drive my rusted 2001 Acura through the streets of Scottsdale, Az, I get some condescending looks from the Bentley and Ferrari drivers -definitely appalled by my “lower class”. I don’t get the same looks at home in Illinois.

I dunno. Could be just the way you drive that scares them, when they think of the rust on your car that may get smeared onto their glossy cars when you run into them?

 

[MarieIG]

I asked my dad the same thing and got the same answer. Are you my sister?