Middle, Upper Middle Class Distinction for Retirees

[Amethyst]

Class is about how you treat people and move through the world.

 

[enginerd]

I feel as though I’m at the lower end of upper middle class. But if I think about it, I’m clearly in the upper half of the lower end of the upper middle class. An outside observer would quite likely mistake me for the lower side of the upper-middle end of the upper middle class...but that is highly debatable.

 

[MarieIG]

Class is about how you treat people and move through the world.

Thank you.

 

[Dash man]

I feel as though I’m at the lower end of upper middle class. But if I think about it, I’m clearly in the upper half of the lower end of the upper middle class. An outside observer would quite likely mistake me for the lower side of the upper-middle end of the upper middle class...but that is highly debatable.

Definitely nerdish

 

[rodi]

Class is about how you treat people and move through the world.

This is so true. My grandmother - who was about as classy and refined as they come - used to say people get hung up on etiquette rules... which fork goes with what food... but the true sign of class is to make sure no one feels uncomfortable if they don't know the etiquette rules. Good manners is about making every guest feels good about themselves - NOT about judging or belittling people who don't know the rules.

(She made sure we understood etiquette - and the more subtle signs of true class.)

 

[MarieIG]

This is so true. My grandmother - who was about as classy and refined as they come - used to say people get hung up on etiquette rules... which fork goes with what food... but the true sign of class is to make sure no one feels uncomfortable if they don't know the etiquette rules. Good manners is about making every guest feels good about themselves - NOT about judging or belittling people who don't know the rules.

(She made sure we understood etiquette - and the more subtle signs of true class.)

Obviously, your grandmother was the epitome of graciousness.

The which fork, struck a memory. I worked at a (very expensive) country club for a while in collage (lots of forks, lol). Some of the clientele were very kind and others completely obnoxious. Somehow, the ability to make a waitress cry did not strike me as "high-class."

 

[NW-Bound]

This subject about socioeconomic class comes up every so often. I never bother to think about it.

But I am sure I belong in the Comfortable Class. I am comfortable in my own skin.

 

[Nemo2]

Somehow, the ability to make a waitress cry did not strike me as "high-class."

OT, but that post reminded me of when my late wife & I went on R&R from Riyadh to Ireland.....mid 1980s

First night in Dublin we stayed at the Jameson (Whiskey) House....family residence turned into a B&B/Hotel.

We went to the dining room, and our waitress was a young Irish girl.....first day on the job, first day waitressing.

She kept screwing up the order, and it got to the point where the three of us were laughing like fools, wondering what surprise she was bringing next.

We finally said "Whatever you've brought...we'll eat it!"

Left her a good tip....and I've wondered periodically, over the years, whether she remembers that evening also. She was crying too - with laughter!

 

[Meadbh]

OT, but that post reminded me of when my late wife & I went on R&R from Riyadh to Ireland.....mid 1980s

First night in Dublin we stayed at the Jameson (Whiskey) House....family residence turned into a B&B/Hotel.

We went to the dining room, and our waitress was a young Irish girl.....first day on the job, first day waitressing.

She kept screwing up the order, and it got to the point where the three of us were laughing like fools, wondering what surprise she was bringing next.

We finally said "Whatever you've brought...we'll eat it!"

Left her a good tip....and I've wondered periodically, over the years, whether she remembers that evening also. She was crying too - with laughter!

She probably owns the place now.

 

[Major Tom]

I recall someone once describing this board as "the lumpen slums of cyberspace".

I didn't remember that, but Google came to the rescue. Quite an entertaining thread - he lasted all of 8 posts before exiting in a huff. Definitely not the right temperament for this place

 

[Winemaker]

https://lifehacker.com/the-perfect-salary-for-happiness-by-state-1605278164

I think this link from 2014 pretty much says it all, but it will need 4 years of inflation adjustment. Here in Grapetown in 2014, I needed $76,200 per household a year to be happy. That should take care of all needs except for material things.

I wonder if wine is considered material? Upper Middle Affluent? Classy even? Beverage of lumpen slums of cyberspace champions?

 

[NW-Bound]

The table in the article is a good reflection of the cost of living in each state.

That probably includes the mortgage that most people pay. If a retiree has a paid-for home, he will be much happier with the same income.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

California is a big state. $95K per the happiness chart in the link above goes a long way in some areas or for households in most areas with paid off homes. In San Francisco $105K is considered low income for a family of 4, the HUD limit for subsidized housing.

My retirement goal is an upper class life on a middle or low income budget, at least a middle or low budget given a HCOL area.

 

[Major Tom]

I'm quite sure that by now, ShokWaveRider fully regrets even mentioning the subject of class, social or economic, because we have taken the subject and run with it. All this despite the fact that it was not intended to be the main topic of discussion! Nevertheless, I will continue barking up the wrong tree by saying that all this talk of class makes my head hurt a bit, though nowhere near as much as attempting to unravel the issue of social class in the UK, which is a veritable head-scratcher. From the Wikipedia article on the subject,

"There are many inconsistencies and subtleties that many believe are far more important to the British system than a person's assets. For example, many believe that referring to one's self as "classy" or even using the word "class" in such a context is indicative of a lower class."

The first rule of Fight Club is: you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: you DO NOT talk about Fight Club!

Social class in the United Kingdom

I feel as though I’m at the lower end of upper middle class. But if I think about it, I’m clearly in the upper half of the lower end of the upper middle class. An outside observer would quite likely mistake me for the lower side of the upper-middle end of the upper middle class...but that is highly debatable.

I am still trying to figure out whether this was a serious post, or intended as a joke. Regardless, it's a mirth-inducer, for sure!

 

[NW-Bound]

Social class in the United Kingdom

Thanks for sharing this. I learned a lot. I have beem thinking about spending a month or two in England next year to know more about the country than what I saw in London. This will help my observation during that travel.

The article talks of social capital as part of the class ranking. As an introvert and a loner, I am sure that my social capital is poor.

Not related to this, but I recently read about the gaffes by Prince Philip that made me laugh out loud.

For example,

"the Duke said to Tom Jones after his Royal Variety Performance: "What do you gargle with, pebbles?".

He later added: "It is very difficult at all to see how it is possible to become immensely valuable by singing what I think are the most hideous songs."​

 

[sturbridge]

For example, many believe that referring to one's self as "classy" or even using the word "class" in such a context is indicative of a lower class."

HA! Pretty much every town I've ever lived in has a Limousine service called "Touch of Class". I always thought if you had to put it in the name, it was likely missing elsewhere.

 

[NW-Bound]

I am still trying to figure out whether this was a serious post, or intended as a joke. Regardless, it's a mirth-inducer, for sure!

I had the same thought. It was a joke. Note his distinction of a subclass inside a class, like a student who said "I got a B, but it was a B+, which is about the same as an A-".

 

[DEC-1982]

I also think one aspect of "class" is knowing how to act in a variety of different situations and this seems to have little to do with income or net worth.

+1

 

[RunningBum]

I'm quite sure that by now, ShokWaveRider fully regrets even mentioning the subject of class, social or economic, because we have taken the subject and run with it. All this despite the fact that it was not intended to be the main topic of discussion!

Probably shouldn't have made this the thread title and the entire first post then. I'm still scratching my head at why one would muddy a housing decision with class distinction.

 

[NC 57]

Some observations:

The two words that stand out for me in this thread are "enough" and "comfortable". I have enough and I live comfortably. Plus I associate with the people I choose to associate with. Socioeconomic class, breeding, income and education do not matter.

My house is in a gated community populated with higher income/higher educated people. It was bought and paid for in my pre-retirement days. Ironically all of my friends live outside the community. I almost never see my neighbors and never socialize with them. I do wave though when I see them outside.

Raised in a lower middle class household, I was fortunate to have a successful corporate career, retiring comfortably in my late 50's from a "C" level job. I rarely see or speak to the wealthy "upper class" people I worked with for several decades. Many were self-centered snobs preoccupied with power games and bank accounts. Today my friends are exclusively solid middle and working class people like my parents. Some are retired middle managers I met on the way up the corporate ladder and others are people my wife and I have met during our RV travels. None of them care about my net worth or the titles I once held. The time my wife and I spend with our friends hiking in national forests, eating pot luck dinners, or sitting around a campfire telling stories with a glass beer or wine in hand is priceless.

A $70,000 annual income in 1900 is the equivalent of $700,000 today. In 1900 a person with a $700,000 annual income would live at the top of society with a mansion, multiple servants, and an extremely "comfortable" and luxurious lifestyle for the age. A $70,000 income today would support only a vary modest mortgage. Yet a household with a $70,000 income has access to 21st technology unimaginable in 1900 which enables lifestyle choices and conveniences unavailable to the wealthiest people in 1900. Would you rather live in 1900 on $700,000 per year or $70,000 in 2018? I choose the latter.

My family loves me, I love them, and we enjoy time together.

Class does not matter. I have enough and I'm comfortable. Life is good.

 

[Spanky]

There's something lower? No Class?

Classless - no need for distinctions of wealth, income, education, culture or social network.

 

[kcowan]

I didn't remember that, but Google came to the rescue. Quite an entertaining thread - he lasted all of 8 posts before exiting in a huff. Definitely not the right temperament for this place

Anyone who takes a screen name of SEC Lawyer is too full of themselves to be an active participant here!

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Major Tom had it right, It was not the intention to analyze and fixate about class. Purely to try to make sense of the quagmire of socio-economic positioning with respect to the retiree and ER and their expenditures in relation to their NW and their own acceptable standard of retirement living. After all we all had an idea of what we needed to ER, then we did it, and now years later have some good insight.

My original thoughts still hold. I will repeat unless you have forgotten.

From what I have managed to find from checking Google etc. is that those aged 55-64 with a net worth of between $843k and $2.8m put one in that category. I am asking here as most people in this group, I would think (Assumption) fall somewhere in that group or above. Let us also assume that include a paid off residence.


To Clarify a little, this is as I understand a general designation for working stiffs, as I cannot find any data specific to a retiree, which for most have no direct working earned income. Because "most" of our income is directly related to our NW, I think it is a good indicator. Of course those who have rental income etc. are a little different as in my books they are still working. (Tongue in cheek LOL) I would be worried about the properties and renters etc. That to me is too much like work.

Top 10% have between $973k - $1.2k
Top 5% have between $2m - $2.7m

A lot of you are REALLY hung up on the word "class". Remember we all just got the BIGGEST "Middle Class" Tax cut ever. Not my words, so please do not blame the messenger. The way some of you are harping on about it, smells of insecurity..... (DOH! Just kidding ) Really I am kidding. If one is in this forum, they are hardly insecure. But it sure sound like it when we keep on about it. We can change it to "Wealth Percentile" if you like. Not that the banter is not entertaining.

 

[Gumby]

I'm quite sure that by now, ShokWaveRider fully regrets even mentioning the subject of class, social or economic, because we have taken the subject and run with it. All this despite the fact that it was not intended to be the main topic of discussion! Nevertheless, I will continue barking up the wrong tree by saying that all this talk of class makes my head hurt a bit, though nowhere near as much as attempting to unravel the issue of social class in the UK, which is a veritable head-scratcher. From the Wikipedia article on the subject,

"There are many inconsistencies and subtleties that many believe are far more important to the British system than a person's assets. For example, many believe that referring to one's self as "classy" or even using the word "class" in such a context is indicative of a lower class."

The first rule of Fight Club is: you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: you DO NOT talk about Fight Club!

Social class in the United Kingdom

My mother, a born and bred English prole, made a very sharp distinction between a "Toff" and a "Proper Gentleman", and made me promise to be the latter should I ever come into money.

 

[MichaelB]

Monty Python explains class

Edit to change link, Alan's updated version is much better. I'll post instead another favorite Python clip -
Upper Class Twit of the Year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2k1iRD2f-c