Middle, Upper Middle Class Distinction for Retirees

[Nemo2]

It has generated a lot of discussions & views, however.

Yes, but only among the hoi polloi.

 

[Gunny]

I think what you're trying to establish is not upper/middle/lower class living. Warren Buffet lives a middle class, possibly lower middle class lifestyle. He goes to McDonald's for the cheapest breakfast possible and drives a simple car. He lives in the same house he's lived in forever. Sam Walton was the same way. Drove an old pick up truck and lived in a simple ranch house. Bill Gates used to travel economy when he became a billionaire and wore old rumpled up suits.

Living lower or middle class has nothing to do with money. So putting a person/family in that category is not reality. This FIRE forum is filled with financially savoy, frugal people who have figured out how to live as close to stress
free and comfortable without being billionaires.

I threw up a little when my DH and I went on a drive to Palm Beach, FL. Drove by Mar a Lago and the rest of the .1% of the wealthy, yes my math is right. These people live in cathedrals, not houses. I guess the disgust and wastefulness of the landscaping and gates and walls and yachts and on and on turned my stomach, almost to the point of tears.

I'm a pretty conservative guy and have always been of the opinion that if one has the resources, then why not a mansion and a yacht. Now that I'm FIRE'd and living happily below my means and see the needs of others around me, I too become uneasy when I witness the over the top practice of affluence. Hey buddy, just how big of a lake house do you need? You are only there a couple weeks a year. Don't you know there are kids in your own county going hungry?

 

[Spanky]

Here's the funny thing though. They are pretty small fry themselves compared to the people living on Medicine Lake. And the people living on Medicine Lake are small fry compared to the people living on Lake Minnetonka.

Plymouth is a great location within 30 minutes of downtown Minneapolis and the lake is a lot quieter than Lake Minnetonka, which is crowded by big boats and farther to downtown.

 

[redduck]

I was teasing my friend Nemo. Like one would say "he has no class"....

Oh, I'm sure that way more than one person would say that!

I will admit that DW has said that to me on more than one occasion.

Your DW said to you that Nemo2 has no class? And she said it more than once?

 

[MichaelB]

Your DW said to you that Nemo2 has no class? And she said it more than once?

rimshot

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I have come to the conclusion that if you have ~$2.5m in NW NOT including your main living property. With a 4% WR ($100k PA) That would put you in the Middle to Upper Middle C!&$$ . Add SS and Pensions and it would put you squarely into the Upper Middle. JMHO I could be wrong.

 

[Hamlet]

Plymouth is a great location within 30 minutes of downtown Minneapolis and the lake is a lot quieter than Lake Minnetonka, which is crowded by big boats and farther to downtown.

I like Plymouth quite a bit, and actually love the new neighborhood, even though I'm a little uncomfortable with being on the less wealthy side of the curve now. Its a lot easier to not worry about keeping up with the Joneses when the Joneses can't afford to do anything all that exciting.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I like Plymouth quite a bit, and actually love the new neighborhood, even though I'm a little uncomfortable with being on the less wealthy side of the curve now. Its a lot easier to not worry about keeping up with the Joneses when the Joneses can't afford to do anything all that exciting.

1 problem with Plymouth. Cold as Hell in the winter. Not in my ideal retirement garden spots.

 

[MichaelB]

1 problem with Plymouth. Cold as Hell in the winter. Not in my ideal retirement garden spots.

I'm not looking to start an argument or anything, but my understanding is hell is not cold at all, but just the opposite - very hot.

 

[Amethyst]

It's well known that the devil tailors each experience to the individual sinner's dislikes, which the devil knows even better than the sinner does.

In other words, you may yet be surprised

I'm not looking to start an argument or anything, but my understanding is hell is not cold at all, but just the opposite - very hot.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I'm not looking to start an argument or anything, but my understanding is hell is not cold at all, but just the opposite - very hot.

LOL.... OK you win.... But not an ideal retirement spot nevertheless.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I'm not looking to start an argument or anything, but my understanding is hell is not cold at all, but just the opposite - very hot.

Perhaps hell freezes over in Minnesota.

 

[mpeirce]

It's pretty cold there today...

 

[Gumby]

I'm not looking to start an argument or anything, but my understanding is hell is not cold at all, but just the opposite - very hot.

Dante says that there is a frozen lake in the middle of Hell. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocytus

 

[ShokWaveRider]

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...4.psy-ab..2.20.1315.0..0i131k1.44.O6ak1awaaXM

 

[Spanky]

1 problem with Plymouth. Cold as Hell in the winter. Not in my ideal retirement garden spots.

Anywhere in Minnesota in the winter is simply Brrr cold!

 

[Winemaker]

My wife kisses me several times during the day, my kids, their spouses and grandkids hug, kiss and seem to enjoy my company. My neighbors wave back when I wave to them, my 7 tenants all acknowledge me and for the most part pay their rent on time all the time. My brothers and sisters all speak to me when I am around, and pleasantries are always exchanged when we get together on a regular basis.

At least to my face.

I am rich beyond compare; life is good. I don't know what class that is, but I'm fine with the one I'm in.

 

[FIREd_2015]

Just read another recently published article about money and happiness. Apparently there is a sweet spot.

“...It’s been debated at what point does money no longer change your level of well-being. We found that the ideal income point is $95,000 for life evaluation and $60,000 to $75,000 for emotional well-being...Emotional well-being, or feelings, is about one’s day-to-day emotions, such as feeling happy, excited, or sad and angry. Life evaluation, really life satisfaction, is an overall assessment of how one is doing and is likely more influenced by higher goals and comparisons to others...The study also found once the threshold was reached, further increases in income tended to be associated with reduced life satisfaction and a lower level of well-being..."

Money only buys happiness for a certain amount - Purdue University

 

[NW-Bound]

The study also found once the threshold was reached, further increases in income tended to be associated with reduced life satisfaction and a lower level of well-being..."

I don't believe the above. Most people will agree that there is a diminishing effect with increasing income, but negative?

It could be because the higher income jobs come with more stress, and that additional money may not be worth it. We have seen many doctors on this forum retire early for that exact reason.

But, if one can get more money for no additional work, would you refuse because it makes you less happy? Come on!

 

[homestead]

According to this article you only need 375k in retirement to be middle class.

Nowadays, to sustain a “comfortable” and “middle-class” lifestyle in retirement, a retiree will need about $375,000 in savings. The reality is that most folks fall far short of that number.

 

[Cayman]

My post was a joke.

I got it

 

[Cayman]

Just read another recently published article about money and happiness. Apparently there is a sweet spot.

“...It’s been debated at what point does money no longer change your level of well-being. We found that the ideal income point is $95,000 for life evaluation and $60,000 to $75,000 for emotional well-being...Emotional well-being, or feelings, is about one’s day-to-day emotions, such as feeling happy, excited, or sad and angry. Life evaluation, really life satisfaction, is an overall assessment of how one is doing and is likely more influenced by higher goals and comparisons to others.
Money only buys happiness for a certain amount - Purdue University

I think the good ol' Boilermaker grad students who authored this study are off-- way off. The study states that the the ideal income point is $95,000 per individual. This is the kind of rubbish that leads folks to believe that they'll never retire with enough $ to live happily and well, let alone ER.

 

[RobLJ]

It's well known that the devil tailors each experience to the individual sinner's dislikes, which the devil knows even better than the sinner does.

In other words, you may yet be surprised

 

[ncbill]

I think what you're trying to establish is not upper/middle/lower class living. Warren Buffet lives a middle class, possibly lower-middle-class lifestyle. He goes to McDonald's for the cheapest breakfast possible and drives a simple car. He lives in the same house he's lived in forever. .

Buffet's house is usually pictured from the front.

From that angle, it does appear to be a modest home.

But an aerial photo shows essentially another full-sized home at the back.

There's nothing "lower-middle-class" about where he lives.

 

[USGrant1962]

I have come to the conclusion that if you have ~$2.5m in NW NOT including your main living property. With a 4% WR ($100k PA) That would put you in the Middle to Upper Middle C!&$$ . Add SS and Pensions and it would put you squarely into the Upper Middle. JMHO I could be wrong.

Sounds like John Goodman's speech in the Gambler. Google it, but NSFW language.

Edit - look for the 1 minute version.