Money Mustache Fires Back at Suze Orman ($500K to retire vs $5 Million)

[daylatedollarshort]

When you are flying around the world committed to delivering speeches for pay, that is not FIRE.

Complaining about people who own SUVs or let their cars idle for wasting energy, but then flying around the world, actually holding conferences in far off places soliciting others to fly all over the world as well, is pretty hypocritical.

The environmentalist in this link said that one trip to Portugal for two would increase their carbon foot print for the year by 50% over their normal household and car driving usage.

One of the things I really liked about Amy D. and The Tightwad Gazette, is that she always did the math. Is it cheaper to make or buy pizza? Is it worth the gas and her time to go to garage sales on the weekend? She always calculated how much she was really saving or spending per activity, and avoided the penny wise, pound foolish ideas.

 

[Texas Proud]

Was curious so did a search.... seems that back in 2016 MMM admitted that the blog was pulling in more than $400K per year...



Now tell me, how many people who were making $400K per year (not sure if that is gross or net) would live on $25K per year?


I remember looking at his budget when I first saw his blog and thought he was leaving out a lot of expenses...


As someone else mentioned, he is not counting his trip around the world, but he is getting to see the world that would cost normal people a LOT of money to do...

 

[Milton]

Complaining about people who own SUVs or let their cars idle for wasting energy, but then flying around the world, actually holding conferences in far off places soliciting others to fly all over the world as well, is [-]pretty hypocritical[/-] incredibly obnoxious.

Fixed!

 

[Big_Hitter]

someone agreed with the $5M number

https://finance.yahoo.com/m/72aa1145-bde7-3c96-a376-2b26f7e2028a/these-numbers-show-suze-orman.html

 

[Running_Man]

Yeah, that's why I miss Amy D., the Tightwad Gazette creator.

Don't remember such from her.

Wish she had a website.

Here's a 2014 interview with her:

https://www.thesimpledollar.com/an-interview-with-amy-dacyczyn-the-author-of-the-tightwad-gazette/

From the interview:

Have you ever considered writing The Tightwad Gazette again, perhaps in online form? I think it’d make a killer blog.
No, no. I’m really retired. Every once in a while I run across something that I think would be a cool topic and I wish I were still writing the newsletter, but there’s not that much that I’ve come across that’s enough different from the stuff I already wrote about to make a new newsletter. It really was a grind, a lot of work … I like privacy. It was a crazy time and I’ve never really regretted retiring. After six and a half years, I was really ready to retire.

I always liked the Tightwad Gazette, here is someone that actually believes what she wrote and lived what she wrote. It is very obvious to me so many of the "retired" bloggers are attempting to portray frugality to build blogging income to leave a less frugal life. Repeating the same thing over and over again just to get "eyeballs". MMM is just the very worst of the bunch, have not visited his site in several years after the very apparent hypocrisy of what he does versus what he advocates.

 

[GravitySucks]

someone agreed with the $5M number

https://finance.yahoo.com/m/72aa1145-bde7-3c96-a376-2b26f7e2028a/these-numbers-show-suze-orman.html

Darn.
I'll have to go back to work.....NOT!

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

From the interview:


I always liked the Tightwad Gazette, here is someone that actually believes what she wrote and lived what she wrote. It is very obvious to me so many of the "retired" bloggers are attempting to portray frugality to build blogging income to leave a less frugal life. Repeating the same thing over and over again just to get "eyeballs". MMM is just the very worst of the bunch, have not visited his site in several years after the very apparent hypocrisy of what he does versus what he advocates.

Umm...it's called a SIDE HUSTLE!!! It is NOT a j*b! And they ARE retired...don't you understand?!?

She is my hero. She retired and well....RETIRED!!!!

someone agreed with the $5M number

https://finance.yahoo.com/m/72aa1145-bde7-3c96-a376-2b26f7e2028a/these-numbers-show-suze-orman.html

Well dammit. Guess I need to go find a j*b now. Well, maybe not. I think I have reverse OMY syndrome.

 

[Running_Man]

Well dammit. Guess I need to go find a j*b now. Well, maybe not. I think I have reverse OMY syndrome.

I like how the guy that supports that actually "retired" on 80K per year but operates a blog to bring his income up to 200K for his family to live a comfortable life.

 

[Totoro]

Building a $1 million after-tax nest egg by that age sounds great, but that $40,000 a year, assuming a 4% safe withdrawal rate, won’t fly in many parts of the country for another 40 years of life, with all its twists and turns.

From the article. I haven't spent that a year in any year of my life so far.

$5 million sounds about right if you want to retire before the age of 60

No, it doesn't. Assuming I live to a neato 100 years old, with a 50% higher lifestyle, investing just at inflation and no SS or pension whatsoever I'd die with at least 3 million left in the bank.

Clickbaiting much?

 

[Perryinva]

That’s all the “Financial Samurai” is, massive clickbait. He has always advocated a $200k income stream as “required” to hit the sweet spot for early retirement, so of course, $5M is the right number. His site is totally worthless and void of any real advice or useful information, just a discussion churner to generate income from increased hits. At least he admits how and where his income came and comes from, and he actually promotes purchasing of and running multiple blogs to generate income if you have the knack and desire to write a few hours a day. He also supports the $200k number based on alternate living in SF Bay area AND Hawaii. So living in a lower COLA or flyover country would be much less. Last time I read anything of his was years ago, but I guess he still churns for income.

Seems to me, once you have a paid off home, depending on taxes, $10k/mo should be more than pretty dang reasonable...

 

[Al18]

Financial Samurai is like the anti MMM. With the average home in the SF bay area and Hawaii selling for 500K to 1 M, a lot of information spread on Financial Samurai doesn't apply to the rest of the country.



The author of MMM is also not living the ultra low cost lifestyle pushed on his site. He has a steady income from MMM and his wife is doing pretty well selling hand made soap - so neither are truly retired.

 

[Milton]

he actually promotes purchasing of and running multiple blogs to generate income if you have the knack and desire to write a few hours a day.

Many of us on this board probably have the ability, but few have any desire to be chained to a daily writing schedule.

The author of MMM is also not living the ultra low cost lifestyle pushed on his site. He has a steady income from MMM and his wife is doing pretty well selling hand made soap - so neither are truly retired.

I thought they were divorced?

 

[Teacher Terry]

Mr. MM is divorced. He rarely writes anymore so has a lot of passive income from that blog. I wonder if his divorce had anything to do with money or the fact that it seems like he is very rigid and opinionated.

 

[timemoveson]

That’s all the “Financial Samurai” is, massive clickbait. He has always advocated a $200k income stream as “required” to hit the sweet spot for early retirement, so of course, $5M is the right number. His site is totally worthless and void of any real advice or useful information, just a discussion churner to generate income from increased hits. At least he admits how and where his income came and comes from, and he actually promotes purchasing of and running multiple blogs to generate income if you have the knack and desire to write a few hours a day. He also supports the $200k number based on alternate living in SF Bay area AND Hawaii. So living in a lower COLA or flyover country would be much less. Last time I read anything of his was years ago, but I guess he still churns for income.

Seems to me, once you have a paid off home, depending on taxes, $10k/mo should be more than pretty dang reasonable...

I guess I'd just offer an opinion from someone who actually visits his site and is in his demographic target audience: Sam's site is great fun to read!

If you are among the 8-12 million or so people in North America who fall into his broad target audience you might agree.

Since I do, and many others do, we know his data, projections, observations and insights are often spot on, and certainly always thought provoking. It's clear from the incredible volume of comments and discussion he generates on many of his posts frequently.

I have no connection with him whatsoever but read regularly. I think he's smart, insightful, funny and empathetic. His many thousands of readers would agree. He's created a great community.

He's certainly one of the most successful and relevant financial and wealthy-lifestyle bloggers around today for that target market.

That target market may not be relevant to you.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Financial Samurai is like the anti MMM. With the average home in the SF bay area and Hawaii selling for 500K to 1 M, a lot of information spread on Financial Samurai doesn't apply to the rest of the country.

I live in the Bay Area and how to live on $200K would not be helpful to me. I know how to do that. It is pretty easy if you have the income part covered. It is how to live the same lifestyle but on half or less the spending is the tricky / creative part.

 

[Big_Hitter]

I wonder if his divorce had anything to do with money or the fact that it seems like he is very rigid and opinionated.

probably because he's a real cheapskate

 

[daylatedollarshort]

probably because he's a real cheapskate

I hope the ex Mrs. MMM is enjoying her half of the assets. That blog alone was making a lot of money for many years.

 

[Perryinva]

I guess I'd just offer an opinion from someone who actually visits his site and is in his demographic target audience: Sam's site is great fun to read!

If you are among the 8-12 million or so people in North America who fall into his broad target audience you might agree.

Since I do, and many others do, we know his data, projections, observations and insights are often spot on, and certainly always thought provoking. It's clear from the incredible volume of comments and discussion he generates on many of his posts frequently.

I have no connection with him whatsoever but read regularly. I think he's smart, insightful, funny and empathetic. His many thousands of readers would agree. He's created a great community.

He's certainly one of the most successful and relevant financial and wealthy-lifestyle bloggers around today for that target market.

That target market may not be relevant to you.

Heck of a fanboi for someone with no connection. I won’t contest that he isn’t successful. He knows how to write to churn responses and clicks. I never found any of his discussions particularly insightful or useful. Same stuff you can find here or many other sites without making $$ for someone, like MMM. First, start off on Wall street and make a million dollars. Then successfully time and invest in real estate. After that, its easy. Sorry, but If you are getting a successful financial education from him, then good for you, and him, but I didn’t see it. He loves those regular clickers. And if there are 8-12 million target in NA for his demo, then I guess I’m in the wrong biz.

 

[foxfirev5]

Heck of a fanboi for someone with no connection. I won’t contest that he isn’t successful. He knows how to write to churn responses and clicks. I never found any of his discussions particularly insightful or useful. Same stuff you can find here or many other sites without making $$ for someone, like MMM. First, start off on Wall street and make a million dollars. Then successfully time and invest in real estate. After that, its easy. Sorry, but If you are getting a successful financial education from him, then good for you, and him, but I didn’t see it. He loves those regular clickers. And if there are 8-12 million target in NA for his demo, then I guess I’m in the wrong biz.

How do you know your discussions here aren't making someone $$? Just curious.

 

[timemoveson]

Heck of a fanboi for someone with no connection. I won’t contest that he isn’t successful. He knows how to write to churn responses and clicks. I never found any of his discussions particularly insightful or useful. Same stuff you can find here or many other sites without making $$ for someone, like MMM. First, start off on Wall street and make a million dollars. Then successfully time and invest in real estate. After that, its easy. Sorry, but If you are getting a successful financial education from him, then good for you, and him, but I didn’t see it. He loves those regular clickers. And if there are 8-12 million target in NA for his demo, then I guess I’m in the wrong biz.

It's cool, that's why the financial blogsphere is so great. Something for every demographic.

Yes, there are well over 10 million millionaires in NA, not to mention many more who generate incomes over $200,000. We are a very big target market.

Sam could have come to me for lots of his ideas, but I enjoy his presentation and his passion. As for me, I'm a decamillionaire who could "retire"....yesterday.

 

[FreeBear]

I'm a casual lurker on MMM and I enjoy most of Pete's articles and the active forum filled with all sorts of "attitude". Of course, I don't take it as gospel, but I think much of it is funny, entertaining and even informative. Absolute truth, probably not, but then I doubt I'd recognize the absolute truth every time it ran me over.


I wish I had known more about FIRE in the early 1990's. I would have saved more and gotten out sooner, and I still FIRE'd in my 40s...

 

[Al18]

Thanks for the update on MMM. I did not know he was divorced. I rarely visit his site.

 

[Milton]

I guess I'd just offer an opinion from someone who actually visits his site and is in his demographic target audience ... If you are among the 8-12 million or so people in North America who fall into his broad target audience you might agree.... That target market may not be relevant to you.

No need to be coy, [-]Financial Samurai[/-] timemoveson. What, specifically, is [-]your[/-] his “target audience/market”?

 

[timemoveson]

No need to be coy, [-]Financial Samurai[/-] timemoveson. What, specifically, is [-]your[/-] his “target audience/market”?

Nice! Alas, I'm just an interested reader freezing my ass off up north. His NorCal/SF weather is probably a paradise compared to mine this weekend.

To the point, I think his target market is pretty clear: the 10+ million millionaires in North America alone, plus the many more who earn top 1% incomes and aren't yet rich. A large number of people trying to grapple with what Enough means. It's a huge market.

If I was interested in running a web-based lifestyle business, I could only wish for his level of success. His site is almost certainly worth a low-multiple of 7 figures based on eyeballs and his target demographic.

 

[GravitySucks]

I hope the ex Mrs. MMM is enjoying her half of the assets. That blog alone was making a lot of money for many years.

Hope she takes her half of the blog money and starts a blog detailing how she spends half of it on luxury goods over the next 3 years.
I'd read that just for the comments section.