The fire movement’s champions hidden realities..

[rayinpenn]

Another Reader: <u>Fuego's kids qualify for Medicaid in North Carolina.</u>

As long as I am able bodied and of sound mind I am not comfortable being “on the dole” and having other people pay for my insurance.

 

[rayinpenn]

Revised.

 

[Another Reader]

<b>Fuego's kids qualify for Medicaid in North Carolina.</b.

Respectfully, As long as I am able bodied and of sound mind-I personally am not comfortable “living on the dole”.

When you put his family income in the ACA application, this is the option spit out. They are not eligible for a subsidized plan because of how the ACA is structured. Many moderate income families with multiple kids are in this position, even in states without expanded Medicaid. If you accept an ACA subsidy, you are on the dole as well. The taxpayers pay for some or all of your care in both situations.

 

[donheff]

MMM just announced that he has divorced. Everything is different now.

 

[SmallCityDave]

When you put his family income in the ACA application, this is the option spit out. They are not eligible for a subsidized plan because of how the ACA is structured. Many moderate income families with multiple kids are in this position, even in states without expanded Medicaid. If you accept an ACA subsidy, you are on the dole as well. The taxpayers pay for some or all of your care in both situations.

There are other options that have nothing to do with the government.

 

[MRG]

There are other options that have nothing to do with the government.

Please expand.

 

[ivinsfan]

I think the OP's whole premise is faulty. I believe the number 25 plus HI in the low 30's means that taking the base expenses and adding HI totals lows 30's. You misinterpreted,younger people with one child won't be paying 30 thousand a YEAR in HI. So all your numbers are off.

 

[Another Reader]

There are other options that have nothing to do with the government.

Not if you wanted to comply with the law and not incur the penalty.

The system we have created is inconsistent and has a lot of holes. Congress and the administrative branch of the federal government created and approved this. The third branch of the federal government declined to intervene.

I would not want my kids on Medi-Cal, which is Medicaid in California and I would do a lot to avoid that. However, if I were in the income range that put them on Medicaid in a state where the care is of an acceptable level, I would shrug and move on to other concerns.

 

[MRG]

MMM has been more full of it than a manure spreader pretty much from the start as even a casual examination of his claims should make clear. This is news?

Coffee, out my nose and on my shirt. Thanks. [emoji23]

 

[ivinsfan]

Not if you wanted to comply with the law and not incur the penalty.

The system we have created is inconsistent and has a lot of holes. Congress and the administrative branch of the federal government created and approved this. The third branch of the federal government declined to intervene.

I would not want my kids on Medi-Cal, which is Medicaid in California and I would do a lot to avoid that. However, if I were in the income range that put them on Medicaid in a state where the care is of an acceptable level, I would shrug and move on to other concerns.

Incorrect I believe the OP is talking about health share ministries which is a whole different topic.

 

[SmallCityDave]

Not if you wanted to comply with the law and not incur the penalty.

The system we have created is inconsistent and has a lot of holes. Congress and the administrative branch of the federal government created and approved this. The third branch of the federal government declined to intervene.

I would not want my kids on Medi-Cal, which is Medicaid in California and I would do a lot to avoid that. However, if I were in the income range that put them on Medicaid in a state where the care is of an acceptable level, I would shrug and move on to other concerns.

I thought they did away with the penalty? Regardless the penalty isn't that bad compared to the insurance rates.


You could always pay out of pocket or participate in a cost sharing programs especially if your net worth isn't too high.

 

[rayinpenn]

I think the OP's whole premise is faulty. I believe the number 25 plus HI in the low 30's means that taking the base expenses and adding HI totals lows 30's. You misinterpreted,younger people with one child won't be paying 30 thousand a YEAR in HI. So all your numbers are off.

Respectfully,
1)My quote FOR OCARE was well above the 30K
2)My unsubsidized price for work was $3,353 a month. Post retirement (tomorrow)
3) the cutoff for subsidies is in the low 60s I earn significantly over that.

 

[ESRwannabe]

The only FIRE blog I read is Root of Good. I think there is a lot of transparency and I really appreciate the detailed expenses. I like to think we are doing pretty well (and we are) but the way he and his wife keep spending in check while raising children (and traveling!) is really inspiring to me.

I agree with others here that Root of Good and Go Curry Cracker are the two best fire blogs to follow. Financial Samuari has good info, but the author is not someone you can relate to as he lives in San Francisco and feels poor even with $6+ million in assets.

Root of Good is literally a genius at not spending money. Go Curry Cracker spends a lot more money but they are expats in Taiwan, which makes a huge difference in taxes (I think they pay $0 US taxes).

Mr. Free at 33 is another good one to follow. He is an expat in Chiang Mai Thailand and lives off of a very low amount (like $1,300 a month). He is the most relate able to me. I have similar sized taxable investments ($416k)(I also have another $100k in 401k/Roth and a pension currently valued a little over $500k). I am also single and no kids like he is. So I could do what he is doing if I wanted to.

 

[MRG]

Incorrect I believe the OP is talking about health share ministries which is a whole different topic.

Oh, non-insurance.

 

[ivinsfan]

Respectfully,
1)My quote FOR OCARE was well above the 30K
2)My unsubsidized price for work was $3,353 a month. Post retirement (tomorrow)
3) the cutoff for subsidies is in the low 60s I earn significantly over that.

Ray you are a lot older then MMM, have you priced a HD ACA plan?

 

[rayinpenn]

Ray you are a lot older then MMM, have you priced a HD ACA plan?

Ah High Deductible.. no heres the deal->
I worked at JP Morgan and caught the tail end of subsidized Health Care. Don’t get crazy I said ‘subsidized’ Quote about 2 years ago for 4 of us $2000 a month (unsubsidized $3353/month). Now DD has here own plan now there are 3 of us. Im guessing around 2 grand a month. Starting next month..
We will see but only for 5 months July Im 65.

Not sure high DD works for me too many little things Diabetes type II and 2 metal knees (Im doing great walking every day)

 

[ivinsfan]

Ah High Deductible.. no heres the deal->
I worked at JP Morgan and caught the tail end of subsidized Health Care. Don’t get crazy I said ‘subsidized’ Quote about 2 years ago for 4 of us $2000 a month (unsubsidized $3353/month). Now DD has here own plan now there are 3 of us. Im guessing around 2 grand a month. Starting next month..
We will see but only for 5 months July Im 65.

Not sure high DD works for me too many little things Diabetes type II and 2 metal knees (Im doing great walking every day)

Not for you, I talking about MMM.. he's a youngster, was insuring 2 adults and one young child, I feel that with a HD plan you could pay 7-8K a year add that to your 25K living expenses and come out in the Low 30's total..I don't believe he had living expense 25 plus low 30's HI for a total of 55K.

With turning 65 in 5 months you are paying the highest individual cost possible.

 

[gstillson]

Someone probably needs to tell 80 million or so Americans that they can't live on $50,000 per year.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

We FIREd ourselves and are into sustainable living, so I am a fan of the FIRE movement and low overhead living in general. I just don't think the MMM blog's particular numbers and advice have ever really added up. Since the reporters who interview him never question him on how he manages and budgets for healthcare, LTC, home improvements and travel, it is good for other potential FIREes to see those questions get raised in forums like this.

 

[haha]

What I can't figure out is why there is so much tolerance for unbelievable claims. All of us have been around, we know what things cost. We also know that often that price can be beaten, but rarely without giving up something in quality or convenience or something else.

With particular reference to medical care including Medicare, I believe that we are heading for a breakdown and bankruptcy of our systems. Something will change, not sure what, but no system can possibly pay for half the population struggling with blood sugar or insulin-related problems. Not to mention rampant Alzheimer's. Every year it looks more and more that big diet and or lifestyle mistakes are very risky.

I cannot be sure, but I think that humans were never intended to be fat. When I was in high school my class had one fat guy, and no fat girls. Middle-aged people were similar. I rarely saw a fat man or woman. This is no longer true. Also, there are increasing class-based health divides. One can live in an upscale neighborhood and rarely see fat men or women. Definitely not true on a larger more diverse scale.

IMO, big changes are afoot and they will not be pleasant. Those of us who reached adulthood in the 60s, 70s and 80's caught an incredibly lucky hand, but the bills are coming due, and they are too big to be absorbed.

Ha

 

[LOL!]

^But all those folks who need treatment are creating jobs for all those folks who give treatment.

It is not like the money flows into a hole in the ground. It just goes into someone else's pocketbook.

 

[kgtest]

Someone probably needs to tell 80 million or so Americans that they can't live on $50,000 per year.

Lol, right! But how many of these are seniors who get medicare?


I know my grandma is one, my grandpa another. They are/were happy only spending on rent and groceries. Didn't even own a home, however everyone of her children and grand-children do, which to me is a remarkable generational transformation.


BTW Grandma is 88, fat german and she has absolutely zero health issues and takes zero medications.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Lol, right! But how many of these are seniors who get medicare?.

Right - Medicare, Medicaid, VA, insurance through work (even if low salary) or simply go without health insurance. The trick is not so much to live on $50K or less but to live well and be fully insured. I am a fan of simple living and low consumption but my version of simple living still includes health care.

 

[Another Reader]

Respectfully,
1)My quote FOR OCARE was well above the 30K
2)My unsubsidized price for work was $3,353 a month. Post retirement (tomorrow)
3) the cutoff for subsidies is in the low 60s I earn significantly over that.

With two adults and a child and expenses of $25,000 net of health care, a typical young FIRE-ee is going to get the full subsidy for insurance. These folks are very good at controlling taxable income to qualify for the subsidies. With higher income and expenses than the $25k, Fuego's kids ended up on Medicaid. IIRC, the adult premiums were under $100 a month as well.

The ACA system is designed so higher earners carry much of the cost of lower earners. That's why your premium is so high. Meanwhile, Fuego is off on a cruise (purchased at a substantial discount) because he managed his income to get the maximum subsidy.

You made different choices about how to live your life and you pay the price. The FIRE folks would rather manage their income, have a low COL, and have the freedom not to work.

 

[ivinsfan]

Lol, right! But how many of these are seniors who get medicare?


I know my grandma is one, my grandpa another. They are/were happy only spending on rent and groceries. Didn't even own a home, however everyone of her children and grand-children do, which to me is a remarkable generational transformation.


BTW Grandma is 88, fat german and she has absolutely zero health issues and takes zero medications.

I'm not sure how old you are kg..but Medicare is not free and in fact a couple with a good supplement and Plan D plus drugs costs can spend a lot of money per year...