Most efficient way to buy/own physical gold and metals?

[brewer12345]

I can't believe I am even seriously considering this, but I am thinking about buying a 1% physical gold (and possibly other PMs) stake. I am looking to buy what would be a store of value and a last ditch, get out of dodge grubstake I hope I never need.

What is the most efficient way to do this? Any recommended dealers? What form should I be looking for? I was thinking bullion coins like krugerrands might be the least hassle. After a career dealing with securities, the world of physical gold looks to have high spreads and high premiums to spot for retail buyers, so if I do this I would prefer to minimize the cost.

 

[jebmke]

Get married?

 

[brewer12345]

Get married?

I am already extremely married.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

I just found this thread, I was searching for the term gold as I was considering opening a thread on this very topic.

Right now, the spreads of physical coins over spot seems to be pretty high (as compared to when I was buying a bit over previous years). In the past, I mostly bought either American Eagles or Canadian Maple Leafs. These both have higher premiums over spot (usually) than other coins, but in terms of a bad scenario are well known and recognized. The newer (post 2014 I think) Maple Leafs have some better security features (in terms of counterfeiting).

Recently however I've also bought a couple Valcambi CombiBar's. They come in 50x1 gram and 100x1 gram varieties. Here's a link to the 50x1 variety at Apmex: https://www.apmex.com/product/74946/50x-1-gram-gold-combibar-valcambi-in-assay A month ago these were just about impossible to get, now the supply seems to be normalizing. As I type this the Apmex price is 2,985.44 which works out to 1857.19/oz (and spot is 1739.00 so it is $118 over spot). What is nice about these bars is that they can be easily broken into 1 gram rectangles, which would make them more useful for barter. You can find some videos on these on Youtube. The 50x1 combi looks like it is about the size of a credit card, so could even be kept in a wallet.

While I've owned a bit of gold and silver over the years, I've been slowly upping the amounts since February.

 

[braumeister]

You could go get your own:

5 Places to go Gold Panning in Colorado without a Mining Claim

Finding Gold in Colorado
Historic Sites & Modern Prospecting Honey Holes

How to Get Started in Gold Panning

 

[bolt]

I believe they sell also.
https://www.midwestrefineries.com

4.5ish stars on yelp as a PM brokerage iirc.
I've no economic interest, just another satisfied customer.

Good Luck & Best wishes.....

 

[calmloki]

You can buy from the US Mint - bought a gold Indian there Christmas before last. We check prices through https://www.ajpm.com/

Mostly own Philharmonics that we bought back before Y2K. Represents about 0.5% of our NW, so not enough to start a new life somewhere else, but what the heck - fun to hold. Once had to show we had enough assets to avoid PMI on an apartment purchase - cornered a banker and showed him bank statements, then pulled coins and the morning gold prices from AJPM from my pocket and put them in his hand. Very satisfying to have hard heavy assets.

 

[RenoJay]

I gasped when I bought gold for the first time in my life starting in Oct. 2018. Now I’ve got 11%
of net worth in gold/silver and believe the macro winds are favorable for it since increasing money supply and negative real interest rates are historic drivers of precious metals prices.

For the physical portion I’ve bought it all from the website JMBullion.com. I send a physical check to save on the spread they add for credit cards. They’ve been quite reliable although there was a bit of delay on one order early in the lock downs. I skip coins and simply seek the least expensive ounces I can find which have been gold / silver bars.

I had been a buy and hold stock guy for most of my life but realized in recent years that the market is mostly dependent on the Fed chair as opposed to fundamentals so I’ve shifted much of my asset allocation away from stocks.

 

[Sunset]

I think folks worried about SHTF reasons to have hard metal, should consider silver coins in addition to gold.

Gold coins are like having $500 bills , are you really going to trade one for 2 bottles of booze and a can of beans ?
Having silver coins as well allows you to buy lower priced things easily.

I don't have much gold, but I do have a lot of lead.

One big danger in buying gold is the counterfeit issue, especially with bars. Even experienced precious metal dealers have been fooled and that is with using their electronic tools to inspect the gold bar.

If I was going to buy gold, I'd buy coins from the official mint to be sure I don't get a fake.

 

[brewer12345]

I think folks worried about SHTF reasons to have hard metal, should consider silver coins in addition to gold.

Gold coins are like having $500 bills , are you really going to trade one for 2 bottles of booze and a can of beans ?
Having silver coins as well allows you to buy lower priced things easily.

I don't have much gold, but I do have a lot of lead.

One big danger in buying gold is the counterfeit issue, especially with bars. Even experienced precious metal dealers have been fooled and that is with using their electronic tools to inspect the gold bar.

If I was going to buy gold, I'd buy coins from the official mint to be sure I don't get a fake.

I've got lots of lead already. Gold bullion would be for a set of tickets on a plane out of dodge and enough to land safely. Also an inflation hedge in a world where every central bank seems to be printing money wildly.

Silver might also be worth having, but it is more challenging to store a significant dollar amount of the stuff than gold.

 

[jazz4cash]

I was alarmed to even see this thread from Brewer but then I saw the part about 1% and felt better.

What are options/cost associated with holding PMs? Can/would you take possession of a significant amount of bullion, or just coins?

 

[Dawg52]

I was alarmed to even see this thread from Brewer but then I saw the part about 1% and felt better.

Brewer has been stock piling supplies and ammo for awhile now. Buying gold is really not all that surprising. Based on recent events......not a bad game plan.

 

[pb4uski]

I guess that I don't get it. Any currency is only as good as the population's willingness to use it as an exchange medium. If the SHTF to the point where the US$ is worthless as an exchange medium, what makes you think that gold and silver will still be accepted as an exchange medium. None has any practical value other than people's historical willingness to exchange but in that scenario that history may be meaningless.

 

[brewer12345]

I guess that I don't get it. Any currency is only as good as the population's willingness to use it as an exchange medium. If the SHTF to the point where the US$ is worthless as an exchange medium, what makes you think that gold and silver will still be accepted as an exchange medium. None has any practical value other than people's historical willingness to exchange but in that scenario that history may be meaningless.

Central banks are printing money to beat the band, growth is nowhere on the horizon despite that fact. I am beginning to fear stagflation. You can also look at the actions of people in third world countries, which the US increasingly resembles. Hard assets are popular in those places for a reason.

 

[brewer12345]

I was alarmed to even see this thread from Brewer but then I saw the part about 1% and felt better.

What are options/cost associated with holding PMs? Can/would you take possession of a significant amount of bullion, or just coins?

I would take possession of a 1 percent stake. If I wanted more than that I would buy gld or similar.

 

[sengsational]

Kitco is a probably a reasonable choice. You can see the spread, and it's not small, but there's nothing for it. I certainly would buy highly recognized coins over something easier to counterfeit. Bad guys were apparently making them out of some other metal and gold plating them, but they were slightly thicker. The "we buy gold" places are usually not worth it because the uninformed client is what they're looking for, to make an overly large profit.

 

[COcheesehead]

Based on the reactions of consumers during the recent shut down, the one hard asset I would look at buying is liquor.

 

[prototype]

3% of my nest egg is physical gold and silver. Most of it (~95%) gold. Bought in early 2000's when gold was in the low $300's/oz. Bought in several "buys" that were all less than $5K. Wish I had liquidated it in 2012 (or whenever it was when gold hit ~$1800 or so).

If/when I do liquidate it, the local places I checked with treat the new uncirculated American Eagles (some exceptions) or any other's country Gold Coins, no differently than a gold bar even though most/all PM/Numismatic type places will place a premium on a "new" coin over a gold (or silver) bar. The place I bought from however will buy back at a better price (premium included, minus what looks like the standard 2 or 3 percent...so basically the buyback price is about equal to the COMEX gold price.

Storage cost - $35/year for SD (joint with DD) which I would need anyway for other legal and asset stuff. (Silver is just at home, too much to fit in SD).

Taxes when liquidating? I'll avoid discussion of that. Perhaps I can use each 1oz gold coin to buy another week at a 3 star eldercare place when needed.

Summary: No real regrets buying since I got in on a low. Regret not liquidating 7 or so years ago and moving money to stocks or just some more easy to manage form of PM.

 

[sengsational]

For selling, you can usually find someone locally that will give you a reasonable deal, if you shop around. With a big enough sale, you can play them off each other. You can always mail them to Kitco or another large, reputable company, but then you have shipping and insurance costs on to of the spread.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

You can buy from the US Mint - bought a gold Indian there Christmas before last. We check prices through https://www.ajpm.com/

Mostly own Philharmonics that we bought back before Y2K. Represents about 0.5% of our NW, so not enough to start a new life somewhere else, but what the heck - fun to hold. Once had to show we had enough assets to avoid PMI on an apartment purchase - cornered a banker and showed him bank statements, then pulled coins and the morning gold prices from AJPM from my pocket and put them in his hand. Very satisfying to have hard heavy assets.

I thought the US Mint only sold "proof" coins, which are higher priced than the bullion (uncirculated) varieties.

From their site: https://catalog.usmint.gov/coins/coin-programs/american-eagle-coins/

American Eagle Bullion Coins provide investors with a convenient and cost effective way to add gold to their investment portfolio. Pricing for bullion coins typically depends on the market price of the metal. Visit the Bullion Dealer Locator to locate a dealer - bullion coins are not sold directly by the U.S. Mint.

So for example a 2020 Buffalo is $2415 on the US Mint site: https://catalog.usmint.gov/american-buffalo-2020-one-ounce-gold-proof-coin-20EL.html?cgid=gold-coins#start=1, $1890 for the bullion variety at JM Bullion: https://www.jmbullion.com/2020-1-oz-american-gold-buffalo-coin/

I'm not saying that proof sets aren't nice, but if we are discussing buying gold coins for the gold content, then stick with bullion.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

I guess that I don't get it. Any currency is only as good as the population's willingness to use it as an exchange medium. If the SHTF to the point where the US$ is worthless as an exchange medium, what makes you think that gold and silver will still be accepted as an exchange medium. None has any practical value other than people's historical willingness to exchange but in that scenario that history may be meaningless.

Yes, there is that risk.

If things get really really bad, we go down to the bottom of the "needs" triangle to food, water, warmth, rest, and safety needs (security, safety). In that case "you can't eat gold" becomes true (well, sort of as gold can be eaten ). But, the thought is that fiat currency would likely be worth zero, while hard assets like gold would have some trading/store of wealth value. My guess would be that it wouldn't be worth as much as today in terms of purchasing power, but would have some value as a means of exchange. More basic things: Food, water, AMMO (even lead and gunpowder to make a projectile) would have more value. Perhaps after starting to come "out" of such a situation is where gold would potentially shine, i.e. if/when we get to a point where something is needed to represent excess wealth (i.e. wealth beyond the immediate need of survival).

I put gold (and silver) AFTER having a good supply of food, a way of providing warmth in the winter, a source of clean water (or way to produce it), and a way to protect oneself.

 

[kevink]

I would take possession of a 1 percent stake. If I wanted more than that I would buy gld or similar.

At 1% it probably doesn't matter all that much, but we tin foil wearing Permanent Portfolio and Golden Butterfly types have 20-25% in gold so we naturally keep tabs on the available options, which change frequently.

IAU and AAAU are probably the two best gold ETFs and the latter in particular is a good option since it is owned by Perth Mint and you can actually redeem shares for physical gold (provided you're not in the middle of a pandemic that makes a flight to Australia challenging ).

You might also consider Bullionvault (.com) for physical gold. You have the option of storage in vaults either in NY, London or Switzerland and costs and storage fees are often better than what you'll incur buying coins or bullion from a dealer. YMMV

Much more discussion (too much, most likely) here on the PP forum:

https://www.gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5

 

[captain3d]

Apmex.com has always worked well for me buying and selling back. Goldmoney.com for holding bullion in another countries vault but requires an extra tax form.

 

[Spock]

At 1% it probably doesn't matter all that much, but we tin foil wearing Permanent Portfolio and Golden Butterfly types have 20-25% in gold so we naturally keep tabs on the available options, which change frequently.

IAU and AAAU are probably the two best gold ETFs and the latter in particular is a good option since it is owned by Perth Mint and you can actually redeem shares for physical gold (provided you're not in the middle of a pandemic that makes a flight to Australia challenging ).

You might also consider Bullionvault (.com) for physical gold. You have the option of storage in vaults either in NY, London or Switzerland and costs and storage fees are often better than what you'll incur buying coins or bullion from a dealer. YMMV

Much more discussion (too much, most likely) here on the PP forum:

https://www.gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5

I just did some really fast math on the OUNZ calculator and it's looking like shares redeemed for physical gold eagles can be had for 1855 each vs. 1872 on apmex. There has got to be a booger in my math, but its worth more digging to get the convince of an ETF with an escape hatch.

 

[OldShooter]

I may be slow, but if the objective is to have gold when SHTF, how are ETF shares or gold held in vaults in Switzerland going to help with that?

My other little puzzle is this: Virtually none of us live in houses that are in any way defensible. Again in the SHTF scenario, I think it's more likely that we quickly end up dead and robbed than it is that we end up in a world where we are able to trade assets safely.

I have a few thousand rounds in my basement, left over from target-shooting days, but I have never thought of it as much of an asset. I even have a collector grade black rifle. But with three outside doors to the house and all of the main/only floor visible from one window or another, my defensive battle would not last very long.