MYGA Phishing attempt? (Anyone else asked to 'provide a bank statement'?)

[24601NoMore]

Hi, all..in the process of trying to open another MYGA and the broker's staff claims that the carrier (Nationwide) told them we need to provide a bank statement to "ensure funds availability" and "determine if an Annuity is the right investment for you". (That second part is really odd, as an overall financial profile with far more data than would be on a single account statement was required as part of the Application. Plus, this would be our 2nd MYGA with Nationwide, and they already determined Annuities were "suitable" for us previously).

Has anyone else ever encountered a similar request? The people we were working with are claiming that "around 75% of ALL carriers" are requiring bank statements as part of the application process, which I find very hard to impossible to believe.

When I told the reps that I didn't see a good business reason for the request (i.e. the funds are either in the account or not in the account, as will be easily determined when I either wire them or Nationwide cashes our check), I also said that doing so would create more work for me as I'd have to black out our account #s after making a scan of a statement.

GET THIS..they came back with "no, you cannot black out the account numbers or make any other modification to the statement as Nationwide will deem that to be invalid".

I was also told that Nationwide insisted on A SECOND account statement if "the funds in the account have been there less than 13 months" to show where the funds came from. HUH? An account statement (even if I provided, which I never would) would show a dollar value, with no indication if those dollars had been there 13 minutes, 13 months, or 13 years. Plus, it just doesn't matter "where the funds came from". So also complete nonsense and a highly suspect request.

This all seems like a Phishing attempt to me. There's no legitimate reason a carrier should ever A) demand an account statement or B) demand that a statement include private and confidential account #s and C) demand yet a SECOND account statement "if the funds had not been in the account for a minimum of 13 months".

I was also told another "reason" they need an account statement is to "determine suitability of a MYGA for (us) as an investor". Um, I already provided "all" of our financial information for the "statement of suitability" submitted as part of the application. Plus, me sending an account statement for one whole account out of a larger portfolio tells them absolutely nothing meaningful.

Anyone else ever have a carrier request a bank statement as part of a MYGA Application? I'd like to triangulate the information I was given that "75% of all carriers are requesting bank statements now, and have been for the past 3 years". (Of note, we have ~6 other MYGAs all opened during the past 3 years, and have never been asked this before).

After I complained vehemently about all this, and told them that there was absolutely no way I would ever provide a bank statement - especially one with account #s, things now appear to be moving forward without that being required.

We worked with this firm (one of the "Big 3"..I hesitate to say who as I don't want to make them look bad) on 2 other MYGAs and had very good experiences. Better than the other 2 that we also worked with. But my experience on this one makes me super uncomfortable.

Thanks for any and all feedback..

 

[Sunset]

Sounds suspicious to me.

When this process started, (before the phone calls).

Are you beyond positive you have the correct URL or email for the company.

You didn't type in the URL or use an email link to get it did you ?

Using foreign characters , a URL can look legitimate and still be a fake one. It's really scary.

 

[24601NoMore]

Yes..I'm confident we're dealing with real, legit people at the broker's firm. I've spoken with the owner directly (including just yesterday about all this - he agrees Nationwide's request is totally unnecessary), and have a prior existing relationship with him from successfully opening two other MYGAs with this firm.

The firm is highly credible and very well known. I just don't want to say who (you all know them) to make anyone look bad.

Sorry - I should have made that part a little more clear than I did.

 

[Aerides]

Was this via email or phone?

 

[24601NoMore]

Both. Initial request was by email. I pushed back (hard) and told them no freaking way I'm sending a statement as there was no justifiable business reason for it. Then, the person who emailed me's manager called me directly and we talked.

I know the owner of the firm having done business with him twice before. I called him directly on his cell. He referenced both people by name as his employees, and apologized for the whole situation which "appears" to have been initiated by someone at Nationwide. I don't know that with 100% certainty to be true, but the alternative explanation would be someone at his firm trying something sneaky, and while not impossible seems unlikely.

I suspect this is ultimately just Nationwide being completely unreasonable, but can't fathom why any big (they're Fortune 500) company would have something like this type of request part of their MYGA Application process. I also know it was not part of their process less than ~6 months ago when we opened our first MYGA with Nationwide. Hmmmm...

Ultimately, though, I'm interested in whether any of you guys have been asked to provide an account statement as the staff I was dealing with claim that "75% of all carriers are requesting this nowadays". I find that not only hard to believe, but impossible to believe. Because who in their right mind is going to provide a personal and confidential account statement with unredacted account #s on it? No-one would have ANY IDEA where that statement would go, how (or even IF) it would be protected, etc. So, it would seem that "75%" of carriers are in no way "actually" requesting such a thing and it's total BS.

 

[OldShooter]

Sorry, I don't see the issue. The supplier gets to determine the terms of his offer and the purchaser gets to decide whether to accept the terms or not.

 

[LateToFIRE]

Sounds to me like a case of lawyers and compliance officers running rampant at the insurer. They do have to justify their jobs somehow and new paperwork rules are often used to pad internal performance resumes. Or maybe the insurer got sued once by someone claiming unsuitable investment so now they want income and asset verification from everyone. This kind of overreach seems to be getting worse each year.

 

[24601NoMore]

Sorry, I don't see the issue. The supplier gets to determine the terms of his offer and the purchaser gets to decide whether to accept the terms or not.

Of course. But I'm trying to determine if anyone else has been asked to provide a bank statement as part of applying for a MYGA, as the staff's claim of "75% of all carriers are requiring this starting about 3 years ago" seems like total BS to me..having opened ~6 MYGAS myself in that time, including one with Nationwide themselves previously.

 

[24601NoMore]

Sounds to me like a case of lawyers and compliance officers running rampant at the insurer. They do have to justify their jobs somehow and new paperwork rules are often used to pad internal performance resumes. Or maybe the insurer got sued once by someone claiming unsuitable investment so now they want income and asset verification from everyone. This kind of overreach seems to be getting worse each year.

Yeah..but as noted, most MYGA apps require a complete financial profile (things like..what are your total assets, # of other Annuities owned, etc). It's all really quite intrusive and overly detailed. So, they already had all this information to determine "suitability". In fact, I even think it's called the "Suitability Form". And having a bank statement for ONE whole account tells them absolutely nothing about our overall financial position, aside from how many dollars are in that one account - and that's completely meaningless.

 

[target2019]

Phishing? I think you have the wrong term in the title of your post. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phishing

 

[Sunset]

Both. Initial request was by email. I pushed back (hard) and told them no freaking way I'm sending a statement as there was no justifiable business reason for it. Then, the person who emailed me's manager called me directly and we talked.

I know the owner of the firm having done business with him twice before. I called him directly on his cell. He referenced both people by name as his employees, and apologized for the whole situation which "appears" to have been initiated by someone at Nationwide. I don't know that with 100% certainty to be true, but the alternative explanation would be someone at his firm trying something sneaky, and while not impossible seems unlikely.

......

So you phoned him using the stored number you have and not a phone number they emailed to you or told you call my boss at 1-800-scamsHere ?

If you used your own phone listing for the boss and he confirmed all the info, then it seems the INS company is too picky.

If you used a number they gave you, it could still be a scam/catfish

Does this broker have a local office to visit ?

 

[Aerides]

It's not phishing - that's a specific term for trying to catch you to click links in emails, etc.

This might be a case of gathering more information that is safe/secure to do so. Or it might be just a strict interpretation of KYC laws. Either way, OP, if you're not comfortable, do business elsewhere for this transaction.

 

[24601NoMore]

So you phoned him using the stored number you have and not a phone number they emailed to you or told you call my boss at 1-800-scamsHere ?

If you used your own phone listing for the boss and he confirmed all the info, then it seems the INS company is too picky.

If you used a number they gave you, it could still be a scam/catfish

Does this broker have a local office to visit ?

Yep. I used the # I have stored in my phone to talk with him. And I know his voice from previous conversations.

I suspect someone at Nationwide may have been attempting to get our account information. Or, someone at the broker. I am NOT accusing anyone as I don't have any hard facts to make a specific allegation. But it all seems very, VERY fishy to me, as there is absolutely ZERO business reason to demand an unredacted account statement.

Still curious if anyone else has ever encountered the "send us a bank statement" demand. The broker claims this happens "75% of the time" in the last 3 years, but I have NEVER heard a single other case of anyone else being asked to send an unredacted (or even redacted) account statement, so am of the strong opinion that is total BS and literally NO-ONE ELSE has ever been asked to do so.

 

[jazz4cash]

I have 3 MYGAs purchased withing the last 2 years from Americo through Blueprint Income. I can't recall if I had to provide a statement when I bought annuity #1, but I definitely went through the suitability hoops for all 3 contracts.

I don't understand who it is you believe is trying to scam you. I don't understand why you will not name the broker in case someone else has experience with that broker.
Nationwide annuities are available at other brokers including Blueprint. It seems that Hersh Stern at immediateannuities.com, Stan Annuity Man, and the Blueprint Income folks are all very accessible to confirm if this is normal procedure for Nationwide. Nationwide also has 'Contact a Specialist' on their annuity homepage. If in doubt, move on to another insurer.

My local bank does not have full account numbers on any statements or documents. It was a pain when I had to xfer funds but I guess it is pretty secure.

 

[rembrandt]

I had the same experience when purchasing a SPIA from Nationwide using Blueprint. They did not have a problem when I blocked out the account number on my statement though.

 

[Sunset]

Yep. I used the # I have stored in my phone to talk with him. And I know his voice from previous conversations.

I suspect someone at Nationwide may have been attempting to get our account information. Or, someone at the broker. I am NOT accusing anyone as I don't have any hard facts to make a specific allegation. But it all seems very, VERY fishy to me, as there is absolutely ZERO business reason to demand an unredacted account statement.

Still curious if anyone else has ever encountered the "send us a bank statement" demand. The broker claims this happens "75% of the time" in the last 3 years, but I have NEVER heard a single other case of anyone else being asked to send an unredacted (or even redacted) account statement, so am of the strong opinion that is total BS and literally NO-ONE ELSE has ever been asked to do so.

Ok, well sounds legit.

You realize if you write a check, you are providing the checking account number.

I know when as a shareholder of some cruise lines, I would apply for the share holder benefit, I had to send a copy of my brokerage statement to prove I owned their stock. I did redact the account number and other holdings, and even the totals.

Bottom line is, if you don't want to do it, shop elsewhere. How great is this rate compared to others.

Besides, shopping elsewhere will mean you are spreading out the risk, having it all at 1 place is concentrating your risk.

 

[pb4uski]

Sorry, I don't see the issue. The supplier gets to determine the terms of his offer and the purchaser gets to decide whether to accept the terms or not.

True, but if I were the OP I would tell Nationwide (a former client by the way) to go pound sand and just move on to the next supplier.

I don't think it is a scam, just an unreasonably intrusive request.