Need Help for a long time friend with spending issues.

[pb4uski]

One point you might make is that this is an ideal time to sell as the real estate market is hot... if he waits to sell later then it is likely that the value might be lower so he is best off to sell as sooner rather than later.

We have a widow friend who has delayed de-cluttering for a couple years... another friend convinced her that this is an ideal time to sell and she is busy decluttering and has listed her home for sale and will move into an apartment in October.

 

[Al in Ohio]

If he hasn’t paid any taxes for as long as you say don’t neglect the jail time he will undoubtedly be dealt at some point in his return to reality.

 

[ivinsfan]

One point you might make is that this is an ideal time to sell as the real estate market is hot... if he waits to sell later then it is likely that the value might be lower so he is best off to sell as sooner rather than later.

We have a widow friend who has delayed de-cluttering for a couple years... another friend convinced her that this is an ideal time to sell and she is busy decluttering and has listed her home for sale and will move into an apartment in October.

Been making that sell now point since April, also around here things cool off greatly in about late August-Sept in a normal year.


The difference is these talks have been before his CC and checking account got cutoff.



Also I'm finding this too stressful, so the I guess you'd call it "intervention" will happen this weekend. Let the chips fall where they may.

 

[ivinsfan]

If he hasn’t paid any taxes for as long as you say don’t neglect the jail time he will undoubtedly be dealt at some point in his return to reality.

I don't think that's going to happen..but it would solve his housing problem.

 

[pb4uski]

^^^ and his spending problem.

 

[ivinsfan]

^^^ and his spending problem.

might also make more agreeable to downsizing...

 

[pb4uski]

Note my first signature line.

 

[ivinsfan]

Right. And I think this may not be a very good place to ask because people like us can't comprehend such a spending problem, so we don't know how one would deal with it.

One idea, is he the type of person who would honor an agreement he signed? If so, you could write up something that says you'll help but he'll have to abide by your decisions, and sign it. Then, of course, get the house sold. And come up with some plan to keep him from blowing through those proceeds.

I've very happy with the answers I got here today, a mix of practical advice and some comments about money and our dealings with money. Saving, not saving, spending too much, not spending enough, I think we talk about those things quite a bit here.

 

[Souschef]

I think the first order of business is to open all that mail from the IRS and the state to find out what his REAL problems are.

 

[ivinsfan]

I think the first order of business is to open all that mail from the IRS and the state to find out what his REAL problems are.

Maybe but at this point the guy can't pay for a gallon of gas or a carton of milk. The IRS will have to get in line.



My things about opening them is that he's put all things money related in complete denial for at least 3 years. He's talking out of his hat when he thinks he can keep his house.

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

Good luck and hoping for a positive update soon.

If he has weapons in the house you want to try and remove them though just in case depression hits him at some point.

 

[Letj]

Wow. Folks on here are tough. The poor guy sounds like he has mental health issues compounded by physical issues. He may need a guiding hand. Is it possible with a little persuasion and guidance you can help him sell the house? That would give him enough money for the next 10 years (he may not live that long). In addition to providing him a list of resources, I’d have a realtor talk to him to help him sell and find a rental. At this point he may have no choice and just need someone to hold his hand given how depressed and confused he must be. This alone would prevent him from taking action. With that said, all you can do is try to persuade and help out with the effort where you can. It may or may not work given his mental state.

 

[ivinsfan]

Good luck and hoping for a positive update soon.

If he has weapons in the house you want to try and remove them though just in case depression hits him at some point.

You just touched on my biggest fear, but it would be Ambien not a weapon. I know it's not on me or my DH or any of our mutual friends it this happens, but it would be heartbreaking.

 

[ivinsfan]

Wow. Folks on here are tough. The poor guy sounds like he has mental health issues compounded by physical issues. He may need a guiding hand. Is it possible with a little persuasion and guidance you can help him sell the house? That would give him enough money for the next 10 years (he may not live that long). In addition to providing him a list of resources, I’d have a realtor talk to him to help him sell and find a rental. At this point he may have no choice and just need someone to hold his hand given how depressed and confused he must be. This alone would prevent him from taking action. With that said, all you can do is try to persuade and help out with the effort where you can. It may or may not work given his mental state.

Tough no... I can't remember if I mentioned it but we've been "talking" about this for almost 3 years. I found a realtor who was a personal high school friend of my son in law and gave the number to friend. We have offered to help get house sell ready, we have driven around and shown him places to could relocate to and still have money. I have spend endless hours trying to get him to contact IRS and get that going so it' settled.


At the end of the day if friend won't even contact realtor let alone sign a sell agreement, what else am I supposed to do?

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Addictions are really a mental health issue, and most mental health issues, especially addiction, these days are linked to diet & one's microbiome - "The stomach produces 90% of our serotonin and 50% of our dopamine, both neurotransmitters that make us feel good and “normal”, in addition to performing many functions that lead to improved mental and physical health. The typical American diet consists of a lot of processed foods, and people with addiction sometimes don’t eat much at all. Both lead to an insufficient amount of good bacteria in the stomach, which means the brain and body don’t get what they need in multiple areas." - https://cornercanyonhc.com/gut-brain-connection/ Here is a list of evidence based foods for depression - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6147775/.

Some healthy, easy to prepare groceries and home cooked meals might help. He might be able to get food from a food bank or pantry. Whole foods with lots of plants might help. If you want to go further, offering to pay for nutrition testing, gut testing, or a functional medicine exam could help, and certainly wouldn't hurt. Many older people are low in vitamin D, which can impact seratonin levels. Also just getting your friend out in nature and going for a walk might help with the depression he likely has, instead of getting his fix with spending.

Hiring a CPA or tax attorney to sort out the back taxes would help with applying for government programs. He'd probably also need the taxes sorted out to see if he could file for bankruptcy. Some states have homestead laws. A bankruptcy attorney might also help on this front.

Our local senior center has people on staff to help with senior counseling and senior budgeting. Your city or county likely have a similar office you can contact on his behalf. They may have some free mental health counseling. Unless he has much more debts than you know about, it is not too late for him now to have a comfortable retirement between his home equity, SS and possibly other government assistance programs. Our government and local senior center have many senior programs like free transportation, free meals and activities, help with utilities, and some are not asset based.

You could also do a budget showing his trajectory now and one with a roadmap and lifestyle (especially the rented room instead of the house) for financial solvency. I'd put this all in a written plan, maybe step by step action items and a goal list, you can hand to him to think about and refer to. I have tried some, though not all, of this stuff with family members and what I have tried has worked. I have friend and a couple of relatives I am concerned may end up homeless through addiction spending so I've given this some thought and this is what I think I can do to help them.

And of course I learned the hard way not to just give them money as it will go to totally insane consumer items instead of necessities. Good luck, your friend is lucky to have you and your husband for friends.

 

[CardsFan]

At the end of the day if friend won't even contact realtor let alone sign a sell agreement, what else am I supposed to do?

At that point all you can do is listen.

I have no experience with elder law folks, but that could be a place to start, and that is something, as a friend, I would pay for. Get some uninterested party to give some advice. It may well be the same advice you have given, but maybe he would take it more seriously from a professional.

You are being a good friend, but at some point you have to let him live his life and accept the consequences.

 

[yhoomajor]

Tough no... I can't remember if I mentioned it but we've been "talking" about this for almost 3 years. I found a realtor who was a personal high school friend of my son in law and gave the number to friend. We have offered to help get house sell ready, we have driven around and shown him places to could relocate to and still have money. I have spend endless hours trying to get him to contact IRS and get that going so it' settled.


At the end of the day if friend won't even contact realtor let alone sign a sell agreement, what else am I supposed to do?

I don't think LetJ was referring to you specifically... rather to general consensus in the answers in this thread. I see LetJ's point though that this crowd is a tough crowd indeed

I think you have shown that you are trying to help your friend. Thank you for helping a fellow human being.

 

[jollystomper]

At the end of the day if friend won't even contact realtor let alone sign a sell agreement, what else am I supposed to do?

Nothing else. The classic "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" scenario. You have done what you can. To paraphrase Mike Tyson, he will not realize he has a problem until he gets punched in the mouth. So far he has just been sparring.

You can support him as a friend, but that does not mean taking on his responsibilities and shielding him from the consequences you have warned him about. I wish you (and your friend) the best outcome for this.

 

[ivinsfan]

I don't think LetJ was referring to you specifically... rather to general consensus in the answers in this thread. I see LetJ's point though that this crowd is a tough crowd indeed

I think you have shown that you are trying to help your friend. Thank you for helping a fellow human being.

I went back and reread this entire thread and I don't see anybody being tough...I feel a lot of compassion for my friend and some genuine concern for the position my DH and I are in.



People saying my friend needs to wake up and take the first step are just speaking the truth.

 

[yhoomajor]

People saying my friend needs to wake up and take the first step are just speaking the truth.

I wouldn't assume he would be able to wake up. Especially at age 69. And less so if there are contributing mental health issues coupled with Depression.

I hope it works out for everyone involved. And thanks for trying!

 

[NW-Bound]

If the underlying issue is mental health as I suspect, it is going to be very hard to help. He needs professional help, but how can it be arranged? Who can force him to seek help? Who is going to pay for it?

It's the same issue with society at large. The homelessness and some of the unemployment problems are caused by drug addiction, which is also a mental problem. Nobody seems to have a solution for that either.

 

[yhoomajor]

If the underlying issue is mental health as I suspect, it is going to be very hard to help. He needs professional help, but how can it be arranged? Who can force him to seek help? Who is going to pay for it?

It's the same issue with society at large. The homelessness and some of the unemployment problems are caused by drug addiction, which is also a mental problem. Nobody seems to have a solution for that either.

+1

 

[W2R]

Tough no... I can't remember if I mentioned it but we've been "talking" about this for almost 3 years. I found a realtor who was a personal high school friend of my son in law and gave the number to friend. We have offered to help get house sell ready, we have driven around and shown him places to could relocate to and still have money. I have spend endless hours trying to get him to contact IRS and get that going so it' settled.


At the end of the day if friend won't even contact realtor let alone sign a sell agreement, what else am I supposed to do?

If I were you, I'd back off faster than greased lightning. Assuming this guy is not both mentally retarded and dismissive of your advice, I suspect he knows EXACTLY what he is doing. He is an adult and you cannot force him to behave sensibly if he chooses otherwise. He is about to go completely belly up financially speaking, and he probably expects you to spend every last dollar you have in order to save him. That's why you need to get out of the picture before he sucks you down as he spirals down the drain.

I don't think you are tough at all. You have done all you can.

 

[ivinsfan]

If the underlying issue is mental health as I suspect, it is going to be very hard to help. He needs professional help, but how can it be arranged? Who can force him to seek help? Who is going to pay for it?

It's the same issue with society at large. The homelessness and some of the unemployment problems are caused by drug addiction, which is also a mental problem. Nobody seems to have a solution for that either.

Well this is where having a partner, or some kids, or grandkids, or siblings, or a parent is worth it's weight in gold. No one with a mental health issues wants to be told they have a mental health issue and could use some help. They need to come to that conclusion on their own or with help from family.


I don't have enough juice to get this guy help. He shops about 3 doctors to make sure he gets enough Ambien and anti-anxiety drugs. You think any of them pay him more then a moments attention? Anyway I know enough to worry and am pretty much powerless. Not a good position to be in.

 

[Exchme]

Since you've been telling him for three years what he needs to hear and he isn't doing anything to fix it and is now approaching you for money, his addiction is in charge and is as dangerous to friends and loved ones as any other addiction. Addicts manipulate, wheedle, cry, cajole, beg, lie and worse - anything to put off the reckoning one more day.

I would not recommend your Iowa friend take him in until he hits bottom and gets professional help. The addiction would just turn your Iowa friend into another patsy to suck into its vortex of destruction. Any money you put in is just feeding the addiction so is worse than useless.

It's worth laying out the truth to him in tough language and telling him that you absolutely are there for moral support and to help him seek help, but not one dime of money. You've already lost your friend to the addiction, that's the only hope (though slim) to get him back.