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Old 01-17-2021, 06:30 PM   #141
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This chart does show a growing gap between the top and everybody else.

In addition to data, I suspect the gap seems even bigger than it is because people on social media talk about it all the time.

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It might just be me, but the gap between the haves and the have nots seems wider now than I remember it being in some time (maybe since Bush I). With inflation the threshold for being in the 1% will go up each year, but has anyone seen a chart showing the annual levels for the 1% so we can see visually how it compares with inflation?

Edit: Found this https://dqydj.com/net-worth-by-year/
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Old 01-17-2021, 06:50 PM   #142
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There's another piece to the equation.
A 1975 Ford Maverick with an earth shaking 75 horse power averaged 18.2 mpg combined city/highway.
A 203 hp 2021 Camry 32 combined mpg. Almost twice as many gallons to drive the same distance.
Yeah, I recall those days of adding 5mph bumpers and detuning to control NOx and CO2 emissions. Then electronic fuel injection and advanced computers came in, and most of that was reversed. Now we have cars with performance AND decent gas mileage. Amazing how things have changed. My '72 (Opel) had very little in the way of controls and got almost 30mpg. YMMV
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Old 01-17-2021, 08:31 PM   #143
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Explain.
Bizarre
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Old 01-17-2021, 09:24 PM   #144
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According to the Newsweek calculation I'm a one-percenter in a few states (not even close in the OP) which is beyond belief. Anyone aspiring to the 1% would give up in disgust if they saw my lifestyle.
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Old 01-18-2021, 12:12 AM   #145
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I'm surprised that there are not more paper/residence millionaires. Don't know where to get the real estate data but it seems to me (SoCal resident) that there are countless $!M properties in Cal, NY and major cities. There are $!M+ house trailers in Malibu. So many, many people in HCOL areas with a paid off mortgage would automatically be 'rich' as I usderstand the data
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Old 01-18-2021, 10:02 AM   #146
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I'm surprised that there are not more paper/residence millionaires. Don't know where to get the real estate data but it seems to me (SoCal resident) that there are countless $!M properties in Cal, NY and major cities. There are $!M+ house trailers in Malibu. So many, many people in HCOL areas with a paid off mortgage would automatically be 'rich' as I usderstand the data
Most households who own a home free and clear in the SFBay area are total net worth millionaires, but they're not as dense in the large west coast metros to the south and to the north, and it's pretty rare nationally. CA median crossed 700k a few months ago.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ar/1936628002/

Slightly more than 3 million homes nationally, or 3.6% of the total, are worth at least $1 million, up from 3.1 percent last year and 1.5 percent in 2012.

Of the roughly 15,100 larger neighborhoods around the country analyzed by Trulia, 838 have median home values of $1 million or more and about two thirds of those are in California. Nearly 30 percent of California’s neighborhoods have a median home price of at least $1 million, the most by far of any state. New York, Florida and Washington followed.
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Old 01-18-2021, 07:43 PM   #147
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Interesting perspectives on this topic. I have come to look at wealth as a very relative thing. Everyone seems to have opinion of what is "rich" is and what the "rich people's" lives are like (i.e. greedy, lucky sperm). There always seems to be the $1M-eer who thinks the $5M-eer has way more than they "need" and how could they spend that much money. The $5M-eer thinks the same thing about the $10M-eer. What's also interesting is that the same principles that a $1M-eer employed are often the same principles that a $10M-eer employed. Perhaps one had a larger income than the other, but the same principles/practices apply in most cases... it's all relative. As said, it's all about do YOU have enough to make YOU happy... who cares what the number is. I like this site because of the wisdom and common practices, but I often sense some judgment on those who may have a higher NW or higher planned spend. I happen to be in the 1% club excluding my home. I earned all of it and was very fortunate, but practiced many of the frugal practices that many here have implemented. I also make charity part of my annual practice and have plans to be try an be strategic in my gifting to my kids and grandkids while still alive. Now that I am basically retired at 56, I realize I have a pile of dough I will have a hard time spending, but I also realize my good fortune and will continue to look at ways to make a positive impact in this life. But guess what, for every guy that has $10M, $15M, there is someone with $50M. I think everyone on this site is "wealthy" and very fortunate... we are the lucky ones!
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Old 01-18-2021, 08:04 PM   #148
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Interesting perspectives on this topic. I have come to look at wealth as a very relative thing. Everyone seems to have opinion of what is "rich" is and what the "rich people's" lives are like (i.e. greedy, lucky sperm). There always seems to be the $1M-eer who thinks the $5M-eer has way more than they "need" and how could they spend that much money. The $5M-eer thinks the same thing about the $10M-eer. What's also interesting is that the same principles that a $1M-eer employed are often the same principles that a $10M-eer employed. Perhaps one had a larger income than the other, but the same principles/practices apply in most cases... it's all relative. As said, it's all about do YOU have enough to make YOU happy... who cares what the number is. I like this site because of the wisdom and common practices, but I often sense some judgment on those who may have a higher NW or higher planned spend. I happen to be in the 1% club excluding my home. I earned all of it and was very fortunate, but practiced many of the frugal practices that many here have implemented. I also make charity part of my annual practice and have plans to be try an be strategic in my gifting to my kids and grandkids while still alive. Now that I am basically retired at 56, I realize I have a pile of dough I will have a hard time spending, but I also realize my good fortune and will continue to look at ways to make a positive impact in this life. But guess what, for every guy that has $10M, $15M, there is someone with $50M. I think everyone on this site is "wealthy" and very fortunate... we are the lucky ones!
Well said!
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Old 01-18-2021, 09:48 PM   #149
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Yeah, I recall those days of adding 5mph bumpers and detuning to control NOx and CO2 emissions. Then electronic fuel injection and advanced computers came in, and most of that was reversed. Now we have cars with performance AND decent gas mileage. Amazing how things have changed. My '72 (Opel) had very little in the way of controls and got almost 30mpg. YMMV


Which Opel? My 1st new car was a 74 Opel Manta. In ‘72 that same body style was called a 1900. I had one of those also. Always wanted a GT but it never happened. Maybe you had a Kadette? They got better mpg.
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Old 01-18-2021, 10:25 PM   #150
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It’s 4 of 10 can’t come up with $400 FWIW. Not inconsistent with the stats above.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-america...ry?id=63253846
This is all statistics. Lie, bug lie and statistics
Let's take my family - Wife, daughter, myself, my mother and mother-in-law.
Both mothers came to US after 60. Didn't earn SS. They live on SSI. So, for them $400 big money. Let's assume that survey called to all of us - now you have 2 out of 5 cannot come up with $400 - 40%.This is your number
Technically correct but in reality - it is not bad as it looks.
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Old 01-18-2021, 11:04 PM   #151
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Note this data include the value of any primary home.

There are 15,298,070 millionaire households in the United States, or roughly 11.89% of all households.

There are 8,046,080 US households with $2 million or more in net worth. That is roughly 6.25% of all US Households.

There are roughly 5,671,005 households with $3 million or more in America, 4.41% of all US households.

4,473,836 households have $4 million or more in wealth, while around 3,592,054 have at least $5 million. Respectively, that is 3.48% and 2.79% of all households in America.

Around 1,456,336 households in America have $10 million or more in net worth. That's 1.13% of American households.
11.89 + 6.25 + 4.41 + 3.48 + 2.79 + 1.13 = 29.95.
So we have 30% millionaire households in the United States. Almost each third...Will be interested to see %% for households between $300K and $1M.
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Old 01-19-2021, 12:17 AM   #152
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Which Opel? My 1st new car was a 74 Opel Manta. In ‘72 that same body style was called a 1900. I had one of those also. Always wanted a GT but it never happened. Maybe you had a Kadette? They got better mpg.
Mine was the Opel Manta Rally. (It was also a 1900 cc)

IIRC the car with the 1900 moniker (NOT Manta Rally) was the same basic drive train (but with a higher gearing in the differential.) The 1900 had the more traditional "boxy" design (more practical). Also IIRC SCCA had a class of "stock" racing in which the "boxy" 1900 qualified. Since the races were claiming races, no one worked TOO hard to be TOO good (IOW, you always cheated "fair" as the NASCAR boys used to say.) I could be wrong on all this, but mine looked like this:

https://germancarsforsaleblog.com/19...-manta-rallye/
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Old 01-19-2021, 01:51 AM   #153
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11.89 + 6.25 + 4.41 + 3.48 + 2.79 + 1.13 = 29.95.
So we have 30% millionaire households in the United States. Almost each third...Will be interested to see %% for households between $300K and $1M.
No. Just 11.89% are millionaires. The 6.25% is included in the 11.89% if that makes sense.
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Old 01-19-2021, 06:18 AM   #154
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Mine was the Opel Manta Rally. (It was also a 1900 cc)

IIRC the car with the 1900 moniker (NOT Manta Rally) was the same basic drive train (but with a higher gearing in the differential.) The 1900 had the more traditional "boxy" design (more practical). Also IIRC SCCA had a class of "stock" racing in which the "boxy" 1900 qualified. Since the races were claiming races, no one worked TOO hard to be TOO good (IOW, you always cheated "fair" as the NASCAR boys used to say.) I could be wrong on all this, but mine looked like this:

https://germancarsforsaleblog.com/19...-manta-rallye/
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_..._large.jpg?v=1

Looks like my first car. 1978 Dodge Colt. Paid $600 in 1987.
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Old 01-19-2021, 06:41 AM   #155
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This page plots total share of assets by four groups.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=A734
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Old 01-19-2021, 08:01 AM   #156
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11.89 + 6.25 + 4.41 + 3.48 + 2.79 + 1.13 = 29.95.

So we have 30% millionaire households in the United States.

I find that extremely hard to believe.
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Old 01-19-2021, 09:12 AM   #157
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Very interesting - thanks for sharing!

Looking at the interactive chart, between 2007 and 2019, the median Net Worth of every group EXCEPT the top 10% (90-100%) has gone down.

Wealth distribution and accumulation continues to favor those at the top.

I remember studying the Lorenz curve of wealth distribution many years ago in my introductory macro economy class. The curve just keeps shifting to the right.

As a group I think that we are fortunate to have been born with above-average intellect, willpower, and discipline. I know that these helped me get where I am today.

Wealth is not nearly as important as health and happiness to me. I have enough.
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Old 01-19-2021, 12:07 PM   #158
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No. Just 11.89% are millionaires. The 6.25% is included in the 11.89% if that makes sense.
Oh, yes. Thanks!
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Old 01-19-2021, 12:28 PM   #159
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I, too, find it hard to believe that here in my neighborhood of 150 houses (in the metro Atlanta suburbs) there are roughly 3 with a household net worth more than $6.5MM and one with a net worth greater than $11MM.

However, this is not a statistically valid way of looking at the data, since wealth is not evenly distributed among all neighborhoods/zip codes/cities in the U.S. It is, I would assume, heavily concentrated in and around large cities and financial/tech meccas such as Silicon Valley, NYC, Seattle, DC, etc. In certain zip codes in and around those places, far more than 2% of all households have net worths > $6.5MM. And conversely, in neighborhoods around, say, Detroit, there are likely far fewer of these multimillionaire households. So you can't apply these numbers precisely to your own neighborhood, or even your own city or state. I think it would be quite fascinating to see the NW percentiles broken out by city/county/state.



For all the reasons listed above, you can't assume that. Unless, that is, you're living in an area that is on the higher end of the household NW scale, and even then it probably varies quite a bit from neighborhood to neighborhood.
I don't know. When I decided to take on a side j*b (idiot!!) some of it involved reviewing the finances of principal owners/members of small/medium sized businesses that were getting government backed loans. I was quite surprised to see many of these folks had NWs in excess of $10MM but lived in very cookie cutter houses/neighborhoods...some that were smaller than our fairly mediocre home. It was quite enlightening.

Another trend that I noticed was that many of these high NW individuals had auto loans on relatively plebian cars.

Much of what I saw mirrored what was in "The Millionaire Next Door" (who incidentally was a pretty close neighbor of you and me).

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When I retired in 1993, the NPV of my non-Cola pension was just under $800k. Today it has paid out over 150% of that and still going strong. Not even considered in such studies.

Yet it has made a huge difference in our retired life.

And yes inflation has been a factor in expenses but also investment returns!
You aren't kidding. The value of my pension (COLA protected) is immeasurable for a lot of reasons. When I joined the AF back in the day, the value of the pension was the very last thing on my mind. Today, it's the key to a great early retirement.
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Old 01-19-2021, 01:24 PM   #160
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When I look at “studies”, “surveys”, “reports “, I am often reminded of the famous quote from my data crunching days.

“IF YOU TORTURE THE DATA LONG ENOUGH, IT WILL CONFESS TO ANYTHING.” – RONALD COASE

Irrespective of NW percentage, like the earlier poster mentioned, everyone on this site belong to an exclusive club of current / future FIRE of < 1%ers.
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