NEWSFLASH: Bernstein slams early retirement!!!

[retire@40]

Right. Good boy. That's exactly how they want you to think and "feel" about it.  And besides, why would anybody really ever need more than tasty scraps anyway?

You lost me with that post.  I used those "scrap" clients (that none of the bigger corporations wanted) to establish my own small buisness from which I semi-retired in my mid thirties with hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank and no debt.

 

[retire@40]

The reality is that while opportunities certainly do exist in America, many of these opportunities have been locked away from even the above average person these days.  Large corporations have taken over almost every aspect of American life that one can think of... from hotels, to retail shops to auto dealerships to farms to package shipping... the list goes on and on.  Work there or survive at your own peril.

Could you imagine trying to build a new railroad across the US these days the way Dagny did in Atlas Shrugged?  It would be an impossibility for all but the largest corporations, working closely with the government.  That shouldn't be, especially when there has been a major shortage of rail transportation over the last decade.  Same for oil refining.

You may be correct within the boundaries of the box you have created.  But think outside the box and you will find boundless wealth and opportunity.

As an example, while it is true that I can't build a railroad, I can look at the the railroad as an opportunity for me to build a small business along it's path.  What do people need at a railroad stop?  Refreshments, food, shelter, souveniers, entertainment, etc.

I can't do oil refining on a major scale, but someone in this forum recently said they were going to create biodiesel with used restaurant oil.

Don't worry about about what you can't do, just focus on what you can do.

 

[razztazz]

Razz is probably young and paying taxes, Mr. Galt probably is older, hasn't paid taxes in a while and thinks the world still operates like it did a few decades ago.

Thank you, my son. I just turned 48 and havent worked since 199, and that was just dabbling

You are esssentially correct in everything else. I don;t recall the Taggert Railriad thing from the preposterously long book BUT as far as US railroads of teh 19th century they were accompliched, not by capitalists but by something more akin to Mercanilists. The "axis" of wealthy business operators and Big Government. Land. That always a gov program. Even bussinessmen cant "creat" that source of wealth. The Age of Discovery. Armies, Killing off enough Injuns. Not exactly businessmen internalizing costs. But why do that IAW capitalist principles when you can get the gov to socialize the costs?

_____________________________

I used those "scrap" clients (that none of the bigger corporations wanted) to establish my own small buisness from which I semi-retired in my mid thirties with hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank and no debt

Oh I'm impressed .. A SMALL Business!

You must be one of those people who gives up easily and doesn't "strive" hard enough.

The point is YOU had to WORK. YOU didn't not even get close to The Bigtime. A bigger handfull o' crumbs. Thansya massa. But the Wealthy referred to earlier in this thread have more wealth than you will ever WORK for in 10 lifetimes and they do not WORK for it. They simply own the "rights" to OTHER PEOPLE'S work and the mechanism to redistribute the wealth produced by them. THAT has been the recent trajectory this thread.

 

[laurence]

Thank you, my son. I just turned 48 and havent worked since 199, and that was just dabbling

You are esssentially correct in everything else. I don;t recall the Taggert Railriad thing from the preposterously long book BUT as far as US railroads of teh 19th century they were accompliched, not by capitalists but by something more akin to Mercanilists. The "axis" of wealthy business operators and Big Government. Land. That always a gov program. Even bussinessmen cant "creat" that source of wealth. The Age of Discovery. Armies, Killing off enough Injuns. Not exactly businessmen internalizing costs. But why do that IAW capitalist principles when you can get the gov to socialize the costs?

_____________________________

Oh I'm impressed .. A SMALL Business!

You must be one of those people who gives up easily and doesn't "strive" hard enough.

The point is YOU had to WORK. YOU didn't not even get close to The Bigtime. A bigger handfull o' crumbs. Thansya massa. But the Wealthy referred to earlier in this thread have more wealth than you will ever WORK for in 10 lifetimes and they do not WORK for it. They simply own the "rights" to OTHER PEOPLE'S work and the mechanism to redistribute the wealth produced by them. THAT has been the recent trajectory this thread.

Are you saying the opportunity to create vast sums of wealth are gone? I believe Forbes just published it's list of the richest, and the top 4-5 are all "new money"-Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Buffet, Michael Dell....they all started small business style and are now at the top of the heap!

 

[haha]

Whoa! What is in the water this morning?

Ha

 

[LEX]

Purple Koolaid.

In fact this series of discussions are some of the most relevant points I have seen on this board.  We sell ourselves through our time on the job and the talents we are able to muster that others find of value.  However, there is a corporate fuedal estate in which employees are the serfs and vassels and will never own any real title to the fields they till.  Perhaps those on this board "get it" and have evolved to the point that they are content with their gruel and the welt upon their formerly overworked backs have long since healed, such afflications by management at the hands of the elite over class no longer the price of obtaining an income.

I am content with taking my wealth and transforming it into a self funded and directed personal freedom.  I ignore whatever Forbes finds worthy of publishing as its tantamount to a gossip magazine about the rich. We all choose our own path. I enjoy mine, and do not envy anyone else on theirs.

 

[razztazz]

Are you saying the opportunity to create vast sums of wealth are gone? I believe Forbes just published it's list of the richest, and the top 4-5 are all "new money"-Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Buffet, Michael Dell....they all started small business style and are now at the top of the heap!

What they are did was profit form the work of others via ownership of the rights to their output. A government program. Tell me they all simply, with their own 2 hands and brain power, created that wealth? Of course they didn't.

Second.. they did what they did and it PAID OFF. What's the old stat about businesses? 80% fail in 2 yrs? Obviously they won something of a lottery in there. They beat the odds. Of course they did. Now ask yourself, can EVERYBODY beat the odds? No, of course not. Apparently only 20% are even still in business after 2 yrs. So, looks like the game is rigged one way or the other. Not assigning blame, or pointing a finger but just don't bullshit me with copyrighted tales of derring-do in the field of striving and achieving and "personal productivity."

 

[laurence]

What they are did was profit form the work of others via ownership of the rights to their output. A government program. Tell me they all simply, with their own 2 hands and brain power, created that wealth? Of course they didn't.

Second.. they did what they did and it PAID OFF. What's the old stat about businesses? 80% fail in 2 yrs? Obviously they won something of a lottery in there. They beat the odds. Of course they did. Now ask yourself, can EVERYBODY beat the odds? No, of course not. Apparently only 20% are even still in business after 2 yrs. So, looks like the game is rigged one way or the other. Not assigning blame, or pointing a finger but just don't bull**** me with copyrighted tales of derring-do in the field of striving and achieving and "personal productivity."

Everybody knows that just because you are a good plumber, that doesn't mean you should start a plumbing business. The ability to integrate and manage the skills of others should not be underrated. Another example, Hewlett-Packard was started in a garage.

I'm not trying to bull**** you, of course not everybody can be succesful at business. The vast majority of people also aren't geniuses, and can't be astronauts or professional athletes. There is no vast conspiracy holding me back from being a starting running back in the NFL, I just ain't got the skills! Sure, there are barriers to entry wrt business, but it's not as dark as you are making it. Is your point that not everybody can make a billion dollars? Risk vs. reward is alive in well, IMHO.

 

[laurence]

Rare opportunities at best. It's kind of like looking at a rock star and saying, "see you too can be a rock star." It's true you can, but like winning the lotto, it's not likely.

I totally agree, but was it a hack guitar players lack of talent or "the man" that kept him from being a rock star? O.K., some rock stars are hacks but I digress. I guess I need a short, sweet synopse of what you and razztazz are saying, I don't want to argue a point you aren't making.

 

[laurence]

Excellent post davew894, I'm all cleared up wrt what you're driving at. The only point I would differ with you and razz on (maybe) is to the extent of the effect, or the extent that it matters. Then again, this is coming from an upper-middle class white male with college educated parents who never saw any (real) adversity in his life. The deck has been stacked in my favor.

 

[razztazz]

Risk vs. reward is alive in well, IMHO

That's just how they want you too think and "feel" about it.

Yes, in a marginal way it is still there. But risk is BS. The Rich avoid it. That's what being Rich is all about. Risk is for the saps and smallfry. Also, any risk that ends up via the lottery system  making you rich is also that which will break you or keep you from evmn being minimally succsessful. It's the same thing. So it's not risk and reward . It's just risk.  Reward is merely a promise. Somethat that when it happens you like to take credit for.

But Risk/reward is not what this thread has been about recently., (I forget what the hell it started off as ha ha ). We are talking about those who DO dig the ditches for whatever comes of it.

The work/risk/responsibility Class  who has nothing and can achieve nothing compared to The Having Class. The Owning Class. The No Work/Risk/responsibility/ Big Government Class

Risk/reward is not what this thread has been about

 

[Mr._johngalt]

What they are did was profit form the work of others via ownership of the rights to their output. A government program.  Tell me they all simply, with their own 2 hands and brain power, created that wealth?  Of course they didn't.

Second.. they did what they did and it PAID OFF. What's the old stat about businesses? 80% fail in 2 yrs?  Obviously they won  something of a lottery in there. They beat the odds.  Of course they did.  Now ask yourself, can EVERYBODY beat the odds? No, of course not.  Apparently only 20% are even still in business after 2 yrs.  So, looks like the game is rigged one way or the other. Not assigning blame, or pointing a finger but  just don't bull**** me with copyrighted tales of derring-do in the field of striving and achieving and "personal productivity."

I gotta say it.  You are one sick puppy.  You act like thse who "win"
by brainpower, willpower, or luck deserve to be punished.  I think they
are heroes and should be acknowledged as such.  BTW, of course
everyone can't "beat the odds".  That's the whole idea of free market
capitalism, which you obviously don't understand.

JG

 

[Mr._johngalt]

That's just how they want you too think and "feel" about it.

Yes, in a marginal way it is still there. But risk is BS. The Rich avoid it. That's what being Rich is all about. Risk is for the saps and smallfry.  Also, any risk that ends up via the lottery system  making you rich is also that which will break you or keep you from evmn being minimally succsessful. It's the same thing. So it's not risk and reward . It's just risk.  Reward is merely a promise. Somethat that when it happens you like to take credit for.

But Risk/reward is not what this thread has been about recently., (I forget what the hell it started off as ha ha ). We are talking about those who DO dig the ditches for whatever comes of it.

The work/risk/responsibility Class  who has nothing and can achieve nothing compared to The Having Class. The Owning Class. The No Work/Risk/responsibility/ Big Government Class

Risk/reward is not what this thread has been about

I am reminded of a speech by GWB. He said "This is my base, the 'haves'
and the 'have mores'." I have very little compared to his base, but I love it that they made it and have it, and if I was 20 years younger I could have it too.

JG

 

[razztazz]

I gotta say it.  You are one sick puppy.  You act like thse who "win" by brainpower, willpower, or luck deserve to be punished.  I think they are heroes and should be acknowledged as such.  BTW, of course everyone can't "beat the odds".  That's the whole idea of free market
capitalism, which you obviously don't understand.

Nope. You never read what people write here, do you? I don't think ANYBODY should be punished. That's my whole point.  And winning my brainpower/luck/willpower? Why would that make someone a hero?  THAT would be a sign of "Sick-puppiness" to me. Truly arrested development.  You "worship" people who got lucky?  You worship people who didn't get wiped out by things beyond their control?
That's SICK  beyond hell, man. No wonder you couldn't keep a business running.

 

[razztazz]

[I have very little compared to his base, but I love it that they made it and have it, and if I was 20 years younger I could have it too./quote]

Missed the point again. That kind of wealth is not acquired by work. It's acquired by Government programs. And LUCK. Whoopee! Let's worship them

As far as the rest of your statement: I can only infer you have taken up building model airplanes

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Look.................I am happy for the wealthy, no matter how they got
it. This "Oh the poor oppressed working class!" does nothing for me.
Someone has to do the manual labor. Someone has to do the
thinking. The brains will win every time. Accept it or be a
miserable whiner. Your choice.

JG

 

[wabmester]

Are you saying the opportunity to create vast sums of wealth are gone?  I believe Forbes just published it's list of the richest, and the top 4-5 are all "new money"-Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Buffet, Michael Dell....they all started small business style and are now at the top of the heap!

The NY Times recently had an article about the Forbes 400 list. Basically, it hasn't changed much in the last few years. The rich on the list just keep getting richer, and there were very few new people on the list this year. They found one around #248 -- a farmer who started a new cigarette company a few years ago and then sold it for a billion or so. So, it's still possible to get filthy rich if you pick the right niche.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Nope. You never read what people write here, do you? I don't think ANYBODY should be punished. That's my whole point.  And winning my brainpower/luck/willpower? Why would that make someone a hero?  THAT would be a sign of "Sick-puppiness" to me. Truly arrested development.  You "worship" people who got lucky?  You worship people who didn't get wiped out by things beyond their control?
That's SICK  beyond hell, man. No wonder you couldn't keep a business running.

Just a quickie............I never ran a business that I couldn't keep running,
and I ran several.  And I repeat.........I don't "worship" people, but luck is part of the game.  If you "get lucky", good for you.  To a very large extent,
life is just "luck" anyway.

JG

 

[Mr._johngalt]

The NY Times recently had an article about the Forbes 400 list.    Basically, it hasn't changed much in the last few years.   The rich on the list just keep getting richer, and there were very few new people on the list this year.    They found one around #248 -- a farmer who started a new cigarette company a few years ago and then sold it for a billion or so.    So, it's still possible to get filthy rich if you pick the right niche.

May it ever be thus.

JG

 

[razztazz]

Someone has to do the manual labor

So let The Rich do it. They get all the money. They ought to be worth it.

And somebody else can do the thinking. Doesn't have to be the Government Protected Crowd. Are you saying it is they and ONLY they who can think?

You can call people whiners when they dont agree with you, if you wnat but that only makes you: A) A transparent grouch or B) Wrong again

 

[haha]

This is the weirdest thread yet, and there have been a few. Here we have a bunch of fairly young retired people, or people who have a realistic shot at achieving that, who got into this position through a bit better than average skills and good work and saving habits in the USA, telling us how little opportunity is available in the USA?

Are you guys drunk?

Ha

 

[razztazz]

This is the weirdest thread yet, and there have been a few. Here we have a bunch of fairly young retired people, or people who have a realistic shot at achieving that, who got into this position through a bit better than average skills and good work and saving habits in the USA, telling us how little opportunity is available in the USA?

Are you guys drunk?Ha

It is exactly because I was able to do what I have done that caused me to realize the serendipitous nature of any level of success. And how much of it was not due to ME but simply what happend or didn't happen to me. Anybody can work. Nearly everybody does. So work isn't the answer, now is it?

And my modest level of success does not put me in the rareified plateau of the uberrich. As to the extent referred to in this thread, no I am not at all particularly successful And I had to WORK for even that much!

But again, that is not the recent thrust of this thread. It goes way beyond simply digging the ditch a few hours more each day and getting "richer" than the "average" ditch digger next to you.

I never said there was little opportunity in the USA today.
Even in the old 2nd World there was opportuity for opportunity seekers and others lucky enough to find it

 

[maddythebeagle]

It is exactly because I was able to do what I have done that caused me to realize the serendipitous nature of any level of success. And how much of it was not due to ME but simply what happend or didn't happen to me. Anybody can work. Nearly everybody does. So work isn't the answer, now is it?

I guess that I woudnt agree with this. I think if you did an audit of people's lives, you would find opportunities lost (even for the more successful folks on this site) and it had little to do with luck. I believe even the most average person has some kind of skill and can educate themselves but many dont care to or just feel comfortable going down the same road. I think a good comparison is a common thread here of why people want to consume and work until they are dead (this a value choice, but how is the guy that FIRE's always "lucky" when both had the same choices and opportunity).

 

[Nords]

I think if you did an audit of people's lives, you would find opportunities lost (even for the more successful folks on this site) and it had little to do with luck.

The harder I work, the luckier I get.
         -- Samuel Goldwyn
-- or maybe it was Stephen Leacock.

 

[Gone4Good]

Anybody can work. Nearly everybody does. So work isn't the answer, now is it?

Never met a rich person who didn't work - and I know plenty.  I know there are some people who inherited their wealth, but an awful lot of people who worked hard for it too.  I know Bill Gates didn't make his pile all by himself, but how many 100+ hour weeks do you think he logged getting there?  And how many people would have quit long before he did?  There is not one person on this board who will ever be worth $billion because every single one of us would retire long before then.  Life is about choices and consequences, and yes, some luck.  But driven people can overcome bad luck whereas others let circumstances get the better of them.

I also know an awful lot of lazy people who spend most of their time bitching about how much money everyone else has.  They'll never be rich because they think the game is rigged and someone else is holding them back - sounds familiar, huh?