Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-14-2020, 07:13 AM   #81
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 225
also.... you guys/gals do know the FED is propping up the muni markets too.... there are bargains in the muni market right now also... some are tax free....

you don't have to hold any bond for any length of time... you can buy them today and sell them the next day if you changed your mind... or they went up in value and you want to cash out instead....
dixter is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-14-2020, 07:31 AM   #82
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by dixter View Post
Just in case some don't look into corporate bonds.... normally when interest rates go down then bond prices go up.... with the economy upside down lately I have watched some corporate bonds where the premium was above par by 50% ($1500/sh) last year and of course we know interest rates are at zero you would expect the bond premium to be even higher... but instead they turned south... an example... a bond last years premium was 50% above par is now 10% below par at $900/sh but the bonds are still paying the same coupon as last year... so a bond that is paying 10% yrly coupon rate with premium of 10% below par ($900) is ylding ~12% .... so in other words... older corporate bonds that are paying higher coupons are now at bargain prices.... I'll take 10% any day over 1% and if you look for the maturing date of just a few more years you can lock in the 10% coupon rate, buy the bond at 10% below par and get the par value at the mature date... crazy time to be in these days...
Ten percent coupon is a pretty junky issuer. Tread carefully.
__________________
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

- George Orwell

Ezekiel 23:20
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2020, 08:02 AM   #83
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Flyover America
Posts: 675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
NO to be honest it might not be a MYGA its a fixed rate annuity like a CD. Its a Sentinelís Personal Choice Annuity now paying 3.10% but you have to leave it in for 5 years

https://sslco.com/content/personal-choice
It is a MYGA, B++ AMBEST Rated for 5 years is likely low risk, but I am very conservative so I have a A+ Rated MYGA with Mutual of Omaha at 2.65% (quite a bit lower than 3.1% but it's A+ rated).
capjak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2020, 08:18 AM   #84
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
Ten percent coupon is a pretty junky issuer. Tread carefully.
I sat down with a adviser many years ago and asked about that question as I noticed many companies get down graded over time even when they had been paying coupons regularly for many many years at high coupons.. and what I got out of that meeting was, some bonds get taken out of the general listing as they compete with lower paying bonds BBB rating or above, while still being a good company to invest in....

so in other words I take note of the bond ratings and do my own " feel good " and choose a bond that way...

at this very moment if you look at the Fidelity Fixed Income page it lists BBB rated bonds with coupons of 9% for 3 yr...

if you look at the municipal it lists AA rated bonds at 6% coupon for 10 yr, tax free....

one mans junk is another mans treasure...
dixter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2020, 01:12 PM   #85
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 6,970
Quote:
Originally Posted by dixter View Post
I sat down with a adviser many years ago and asked about that question as I noticed many companies get down graded over time even when they had been paying coupons regularly for many many years at high coupons.. and what I got out of that meeting was, some bonds get taken out of the general listing as they compete with lower paying bonds BBB rating or above, while still being a good company to invest in....



so in other words I take note of the bond ratings and do my own " feel good " and choose a bond that way...



at this very moment if you look at the Fidelity Fixed Income page it lists BBB rated bonds with coupons of 9% for 3 yr...



if you look at the municipal it lists AA rated bonds at 6% coupon for 10 yr, tax free....



one mans junk is another mans treasure...


Ok, you made me look! I think I see the bonds you cited, but the coupons are only 5%. Itís a good rate but not worth the risk for me. The muni only pays 3% YTM since itís offered at a premium. A month or so ago there were great opportunities.
__________________
...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
jazz4cash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2020, 01:52 PM   #86
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtail View Post
Please update us if you can.
Let us know if there is any gotchas if you don't mind.
Finished application (through Fidelity) for a couple of Mass Mutual 3 yr, 2% MYGA's. My Fidelity guy did most of the work and verified I had a good handle on things. No gotchas. Very straight forward.

Will take a week or so for the direct rollover to Mass Mutual (Traditional IRA's) and another few days for the annuities to show back up on the Fidelity site.

Probably less hassle factor than buying a CD from a new bank.
PatrickA5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2020, 03:49 PM   #87
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz4cash View Post
Ok, you made me look! I think I see the bonds you cited, but the coupons are only 5%. Itís a good rate but not worth the risk for me. The muni only pays 3% YTM since itís offered at a premium. A month or so ago there were great opportunities.

The muni actually has a coupon of 6% tax free... the YTM is only if you hold the bond until maturity... the maturity date is 2029... so you pull 6% tax free for a couple years and you sell the bond at above par to break even on the cost.. you still get 6% tax free each year... thats now... not a month ago...

been doing this for 40 yrs.. I have only been burned once by muni bonds... and that was when Washington state defaulted on bonds they issued for a atomic electrical generation plant... didn't loose much cause I didn't have that much to loose in those days...
dixter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2020, 04:38 PM   #88
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Dawg52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Central MS/Orange Beach, AL
Posts: 8,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickA5 View Post
Finished application (through Fidelity) for a couple of Mass Mutual 3 yr, 2% MYGA's. My Fidelity guy did most of the work and verified I had a good handle on things. No gotchas. Very straight forward.

Will take a week or so for the direct rollover to Mass Mutual (Traditional IRA's) and another few days for the annuities to show back up on the Fidelity site.

Probably less hassle factor than buying a CD from a new bank.
Ha....I bought one this afternoon too through Fidelity. Went as you described.
__________________
Retired 3/31/2007@52
Investing style: Full time wuss.
Dawg52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2020, 04:45 PM   #89
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Tampa
Posts: 9,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickA5 View Post
Finished application (through Fidelity) for a couple of Mass Mutual 3 yr, 2% MYGA's. My Fidelity guy did most of the work and verified I had a good handle on things. No gotchas. Very straight forward.

Will take a week or so for the direct rollover to Mass Mutual (Traditional IRA's) and another few days for the annuities to show back up on the Fidelity site.

Probably less hassle factor than buying a CD from a new bank.
Thanks for the update.
2 questions:
1) Any particular reason you picked Mass Mutual over NY Life?
2) Were there any (hidden) fees?
__________________
TGIM
Dtail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2020, 05:20 PM   #90
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordjust View Post
Bruno,

Why dont you just ignore brewer? Read back at his thread with razor, sometimes people have good information.. sometimes not

I carefully select what I pull as valuable information from these threads... .the stock/housing market is gambling.. its not strictly about intelligence... sometimes its about experience or luck..
Thank You ..I think I would have liked Razor.
Bruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2020, 05:27 PM   #91
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
I differ with my friend brewer with respect to the credit risk of annuities. IMO the credit risk of most annuities is negligible.

All of that said, Sentinel Security Life is towards the bottom of the barrel of life insurers so there is more credit risk buying an annuity from them vs a NML, MassMu, NY Life and the like.

It is not guaranteed by the state. There is a state guaranty fund that would step in if the insurer's assets were inadequate to fund its liabilities but that guaranty fund is funded by assessments against other insurers doing business in the state and is not a direct obligation of the state.
Thank You Pu4uski!! I also believe the last time you pointed out to brewer if I recall correctly none of these Annuities companies have ever folded up. I hope this is correct.

I looked back and this is what you said.
It is because the subject was credit risk of buying an annuity and the link that you shared listed insolvencies where many of the companies, especially the more recent insolvencies, were not annuity writers at all.
Bruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2020, 05:36 PM   #92
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtail View Post
Thanks for the update.
2 questions:
1) Any particular reason you picked Mass Mutual over NY Life?
2) Were there any (hidden) fees?
Mass Mutual was 2.0% and New York Life was 1.9%. My Fidelity guy said both were around 1.6% a few weeks ago and then had a little price war bringing them to 2.1%. Both dropped at the beginning of this week.

No hidden fees.
PatrickA5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2020, 05:44 PM   #93
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Tampa
Posts: 9,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickA5 View Post
Mass Mutual was 2.0% and New York Life was 1.9%. My Fidelity guy said both were around 1.6% a few weeks ago and then had a little price war bringing them to 2.1%. Both dropped at the beginning of this week.

No hidden fees.
Okay excellent.
__________________
TGIM
Dtail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2020, 06:29 AM   #94
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,345
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickA5 View Post
Mass Mutual was 2.0% and New York Life was 1.9%. My Fidelity guy said both were around 1.6% a few weeks ago and then had a little price war bringing them to 2.1%. Both dropped at the beginning of this week.

No hidden fees.
What area of the Fidelity web page are you fishing on to find these?
Spock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2020, 06:52 AM   #95
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Dawg52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Central MS/Orange Beach, AL
Posts: 8,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spock View Post
What area of the Fidelity web page are you fishing on to find these?
Under fixed income products but here is a direct link.

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/an...es/?refann=001
__________________
Retired 3/31/2007@52
Investing style: Full time wuss.
Dawg52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2020, 07:56 AM   #96
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 32,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg52 View Post
Under fixed income products but here is a direct link.

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/an...es/?refann=001
Just be sure that you will stay the entire term.... 7% surrender charge... equal to the first ~3.5 years of interest.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.

Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2020, 08:01 AM   #97
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Dawg52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Central MS/Orange Beach, AL
Posts: 8,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
Just be sure that you will stay the entire term.... 7% surrender charge... equal to the first ~3.5 years of interest.
Oh yeah. I've got lot's of cd's unfortunately maturing over the next 2 years. No need to touch the annuity. And i keep a chunk sitting in a money market fund.
__________________
Retired 3/31/2007@52
Investing style: Full time wuss.
Dawg52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2020, 08:05 AM   #98
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg52 View Post
Oh yeah. I've got lot's of cd's unfortunately maturing over the next 2 years. No need to touch the annuity. And i keep a chunk sitting in a money market fund.
If you absolutely had to, you can withdraw 10% per year from these annuities without surrender fee.
PatrickA5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2020, 08:12 AM   #99
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Dawg52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Central MS/Orange Beach, AL
Posts: 8,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickA5 View Post
If you absolutely had to, you can withdraw 10% per year from these annuities without surrender fee.
Yes my Fidelity advisor mentioned that. So that is a nice feature if you have to.
__________________
Retired 3/31/2007@52
Investing style: Full time wuss.
Dawg52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2020, 08:55 AM   #100
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg52 View Post
Under fixed income products but here is a direct link.

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/an...es/?refann=001

danke!
Spock is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My simplistic approach to downside cost of Healthcare Insurance going forward... LARS Health and Early Retirement 24 11-15-2016 05:57 PM
What is your Health Insurance budget now and going forward/ golfersailor FIRE and Money 21 02-09-2013 02:20 PM
Real return going forward GTM FIRE and Money 7 04-09-2006 02:49 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:47 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.