Paying bills for adult children? Try tough love instead

[FIREd]

My parents had always made it clear that my sister and I would be on our own post graduation. They did cut me loose. However, my dad continues to provide significant financial assistance to my 38-year old sister and her family - with no end in sight. So when it comes down to it, I think it's hard to say no to a struggling child.

We don't have kids on our own, so we won't face this problem. Our current struggle is with saying no to financially-challenged seniors. A tween can rough it if necessary (I know I did). But it feels wrong to expect the same from our elders.

 

[MichaelB]

Parenting is hard.

Agree, though only for one's own kids. Giving advice to others about parenting is easier, doubly so when advising one's children on their parenting skills.

I think it is important for parents to communicate to their kids all along what they will and will not pay for. The kids deserve to know from the earliest possible age on. Then they know what to expect, and what to prepare for as they get older.

Yes, and not just with the kids. I think many of the issues we wrestle with on the forum, such as "my spouse doesn't want me to ER", or "my parents aren't managing their affairs properly" would benefit if the parties involved started talking about these things much sooner in life.

 

[2B]

On my way home from HS graduation, my father told me what my room and board would be from then on. It was cheaper to move out when I started college. My parents contributed nothing to my college costs.

My kids got everything in college paid for except personal expenses and books. When they moved out of the dorms, they got a cash payment equal to the dorm with meal plan. They got to keep any scholarship money for themselves.

 

[marko]

I disagree, I think that reasonable assistance during the debt elimination phase can be useful. Keeping a child on the family cell phone plan may only cost you $20 but saves the child something like $75 for their own phone (assuming Verizon Smartphone) for example.

Yeah, until it comes out in conversation (and it always seems to) that they drop $75 every Friday night at the club. Oh, and a $45 cab ride home.

 

[slowsaver]

Old Economy Steven

When I read this article, Paying bills for adult children? Try tough love instead, I immediately thought of this thread: http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f26/a-question-about-my-sister-72738.html

If you're planning to apply tough-love to your Millennial kid, be aware that they'll be busy writing new "Old Economy Steve" memes about you on the internet:

Old Economy Steven: Image Gallery | Know Your Meme

Too bad they can't monetize that creativity.

 

[WannabeRetired]

Well my offspring just got a little financial kick in the pants. I told her last year I overfunded her 529 by about $3k and she would be able then to use it for her masters when she decided to pursue it. Well this summer she proceeds to enroll in a summer class and then decide not to take it. I noticed the bill on her account and told her to drop that class so we aren't charged for it. I then also texted her mother to remind her which she did. Well come a month later, lazy bones never got around to doing it. Her mother ratted her out by telling me she said "dad had extra money in my 529 so it's not a big deal". Well, she thought wrong. I paid that wasted expense, but I'm draining the rest of the account and spending it on myself. I don't care it the penalty fees take 80% of it. While she is a good girl that cavalier attitude towards others people money combined with slothfulness deserves a financial hit!

Love it! Do you mind sharing her response to this?

 

[KingB]

My kids got everything in college paid for except personal expenses and books. When they moved out of the dorms, they got a cash payment equal to the dorm with meal plan. They got to keep any scholarship money for themselves.

I did the same thing with my kids, except I paid for their books and supplies.

I also told them that I will pay only for 4 years of college (to discourage them from shifting majors). DS did it in 4 years, DD needed more than 4 years and so DW and I loaned her the money. It still has to be repaid. As the saying goes - "if you don't want something back, lend it to your children".

 

[pb4uski]

Well my offspring just got a little financial kick in the pants. I told her last year I overfunded her 529 by about $3k and she would be able then to use it for her masters when she decided to pursue it. Well this summer she proceeds to enroll in a summer class and then decide not to take it. I noticed the bill on her account and told her to drop that class so we aren't charged for it. I then also texted her mother to remind her which she did. Well come a month later, lazy bones never got around to doing it. Her mother ratted her out by telling me she said "dad had extra money in my 529 so it's not a big deal". Well, she thought wrong. I paid that wasted expense, but I'm draining the rest of the account and spending it on myself. I don't care it the penalty fees take 80% of it. While she is a good girl that cavalier attitude towards others people money combined with slothfulness deserves a financial hit! ....

I would be ripping mad if DD or DS did that. That's outrageous.

 

[Mulligan]

Love it! Do you mind sharing her response to this?

I haven't said anything to her about it concerning my plans. She did apologize. Besides if some unplanned fees for this last year are needed to be paid for I will use it for that. But if not, I imagine I will say something like..."Sorry, I was irresponsible and used the money to buy a 70 inch TV!"


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ProspectiveBum]

A buddy of mine this summer had the same thing happen to him by his son, except it was 2 classes... He is not happy either...he had a classic line a few weeks ago...His son saw his and his wife's paychecks and says "Dad I didn't know we were rich". He replied to his son..."No, your mother and I are rich, you are not"

Is your friend Cliff Huxtable? I recently showed this clip to my kids (ages 10 and 7) after a discussion about household finances. They thought it was hilarious, and hopefully it gave them something to think about.

Vanessa's Rich - YouTube

 

[ProspectiveBum]

Here's another Cosby show clip that I showed my kids. I was a young teen when that show first aired, and I never realized the life lessons Dr. Cosby was giving me. I guess a spoonful of sugar (or humor, in this case) really does help the medicine go down.

THE COSBY SHOW - REGULAR PEOPLE - YouTube

I agree with W2R, communication is key. We're trying to set expectations for our kids, so there won't be any financial surprises as they get older. DW and I each have a 40+ yo sibling who is [-]sponging off[/-] living with one of our parents. We recognize that our parents are at least as much to blame as the sibs. We will not be repeating that cycle with our kids.

 

[Calico]

Here's another Cosby show clip that I showed my kids. I was a young teen when that show first aired, and I never realized the life lessons Dr. Cosby was giving me. I guess a spoonful of sugar (or humor, in this case) really does help the medicine go down.

THE COSBY SHOW - REGULAR PEOPLE - YouTube

I agree with W2R, communication is key. We're trying to set expectations for our kids, so there won't be any financial surprises as they get older. DW and I each have a 40+ yo sibling who is [-]sponging off[/-] living with one of our parents. We recognize that our parents are at least as much to blame as the sibs. We will not be repeating that cycle with our kids.

Thanks for the memories! That clip is one of my all time favorites from the show.

 

[BLS53]

Most of the comments have reflected on helping college grads that are under or unemployed. That's not where I see the problem. What I see with increasing frequency, is multi-generational households of single moms. Most often with the elder in their 60's and with a good paying job, that supports the daughter, granddaughter, and great grandchild(ren). Often the offspring have on and off menial jobs, and lead a carefree social life. One has to wonder about their future when grandma is gone. In most cases, I doubt there will be enough of an inheritance to take care of the lot of them. They'll probably end up on the government dole.

 

[BLS53]

On my way home from HS graduation, my father told me what my room and board would be from then on. It was cheaper to move out when I started college. My parents contributed nothing to my college costs.

My kids got everything in college paid for except personal expenses and books. When they moved out of the dorms, they got a cash payment equal to the dorm with meal plan. They got to keep any scholarship money for themselves.

My father was much the same, and he didn't believe in college. He even complained when I was slacking off after high school on a 6 month delayed entry program to join the Navy. My mom would've let me hang out indefinitely, but she had no input on family finances, and it would have been a subsistence lifestyle of room and board, and constant friction with my father.

 

[Tree-dweller]

We paid all tuition bills - minus scholarship money - for both kids. Both worked through college. Both are out on their own. The only recurring expense we still cover for them indefinately is cellphone, for reasons others have mentioned. But if either one suddenly found themselves unemployed and unable to afford rent in this high COL area, I would offer them their old room back til they got back on their feet, no question. But I have the luxury of knowing that either one would be working as hard as they could to get another job and move out again ASAP!

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

I'm of the mindset that you offer everything *except* financial support. You teach your kids how to: (i) find a part-time job, (ii) write a decent resume, (iii) dress appropriately for the interview/work, (iv) write clearly and succinctly, etc.... While none of these skills will pay the bills, they will translate into an ability to find a decent-paying job that will. Most kids should know these things by the time they reach adulthood, and many parents have tried to teach them during their adolescent years, but kids often aren't ready to learn these lessons until they're out on their own.

EDIT: Don't be swayed by pleas for money. It's easy to give money, but you'll just be an enabler of laziness. Learning the foregoing skills can be hard for some, but they will pay a lifetime of dividends - with the added bonus that they'll hopefully be passed on to any grandkids.

 

[Hamlet]

These are great!

If you're planning to apply tough-love to your Millennial kid, be aware that they'll be busy writing new "Old Economy Steve" memes about you on the internet:

Old Economy Steven: Image Gallery | Know Your Meme

Too bad they can't monetize that creativity.

 

[kimcdougc]

Interesting thread. I must say my DH and I have been the "enablers". One and a half years ago our 33 year old son got laid off from his job along with a ticket that required some community service. We paid the ticket (let him know a one time deal) and moved him home from across the state. The deal was he could live with us for a year to get back on his feet again. He worked for 6 months for a friend and then nothing. I mean nothing. He found a job in January (a decent job for someone who doesn't have a college degree). Overslept and didn't show up. Didn't even call. One more try...his dad told him he had 6 more months or until the end of June and then he has to be out of here. You would think he would take advantage of the situation right. No work, no looking. In the mean time his vehicle breaks down. No vehicle no job. We bought a used car for him. He has paid us back for half. (Sold some stuff). June 30th came and nothing. So guess what...we helped him move to his friends on Friday and he got a job by Monday. Moral of the story...don't let them come back home and don't dole out the bucks to be an enabler. His stuff is still here, has to be out by the end of the month. He can't come back home. Lesson learned on our side. DD is doing well and is married and paying her way quite well. DS didn't want to go to college now we are using that money to help finance our retirement. Love your kids, give emotional support. Don't do what we did. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Walt34]

But if either one suddenly found themselves unemployed and unable to afford rent in this high COL area, I would offer them their old room back til they got back on their feet, no question. But I have the luxury of knowing that either one would be working as hard as they could to get another job and move out again ASAP!

That's good for them to know.

After my divorce and the house sold I did boomerang back to my mother's house for a number of reasons. And I'll say that at 35 years old living at Mom's was the last place I wanted to be. But she'd been on her own for about ten years and the house needed a lot of deferred maintenance done. She was on the waiting list for a CCRC and would have 60 days to sell the house and move when they called. I figured there would be two benefits to the arrangement. She'd get all that maintenance done (easier if I'm living there and all my tools are there too) and I could save enough fast enough to be out of there in ~18 months, 24 at most, and have the down payment/closing on my own house.

So in 18 months I got the lawn into better shape than it had ever been, cleaned out a lot of the stuff that my packrat father had left (~four pickup truck loads) and she was reluctant to part with being a child of the Depression. I repainted the entire house interior including white enamel on all trim and doors, paid the utilities (there was no house payment) did the minor repairs (faucet leaks and the like) and fixed a water pipe leak at 7:00 AM Christmas Day. Good luck finding a plumber then!

The plan worked, I was gone to my own house in 18 months and when her house went on the market it sold in three days.

So sometimes it works out well.

 

[Independent]

I thought we had a plan. Real life intervened.

The idea was that they'd get four years of college cost. If they earned merit based scholarships, I'd use the money I saved to help them with grad school (and I guessed they would all head that way). All of them had merit based scholarships.

But, all three of them had unusual health problems. One has struggled through, one got a little help, the third a lot more. It bothers me. I'd never expected that retirement savings would go toward supporting my adult kids. I wish that one would let me provide more help, and another would ask for less. But, when I look at the situations, I don't see myself doing less this month.

Now, we've also been helping my wife's brother, who is a good-hearted, hard-working guy who has had his own problems, but then married the wrong woman. That bothers me a lot more...

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Now, we've also been helping my wife's brother, who is a good-hearted, hard-working guy who has had his own problems, but then married the wrong woman. That bothers me a lot more...

Not to sound cold, but why continue to help him, since the "problem" (of choosing a bad wife) is one of his own making? Couldn't he solve such problem by getting a divorce, after which you could choose to resume helping him?

 

[Throwdownmyaceinthehole]

When I went part time, I decided that one of the things I wanted to do was make my daughters life a little easier. She didn't ask for it, but I know she could use it. I told her she could have it now, or when I'm dead. I just direct deposit a couple hours work into her acct each week. I don't miss it. She holds down a good but not so great paying job, owns her own home, has a 401k. I don't think I am enabling her.

 

[Independent]

Not to sound cold, but why continue to help him, since the "problem" (of choosing a bad wife) is one of his own making? Couldn't he solve such problem by getting a divorce, after which you could choose to resume helping him?

Yes, I'd be happy to pay for a divorce. My wife doesn't see it that way.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Yes, I'd be happy to pay for a divorce. My wife doesn't see it that way.

Not sure I understand why she doesn't, but I wonder whether cutting off support might be a catalyst for the problem resolving itself.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[ivinsfan]

I thought we had a plan. Real life intervened.

The idea was that they'd get four years of college cost. If they earned merit based scholarships, I'd use the money I saved to help them with grad school (and I guessed they would all head that way). All of them had merit based scholarships.

But, all three of them had unusual health problems. One has struggled through, one got a little help, the third a lot more. It bothers me. I'd never expected that retirement savings would go toward supporting my adult kids. I wish that one would let me provide more help, and another would ask for less. But, when I look at the situations, I don't see myself doing less this month.

Now, we've also been helping my wife's brother, who is a good-hearted, hard-working guy who has had his own problems, but then married the wrong woman. That bothers me a lot more...

Considering your username, that's a pretty ironic twist. health problems no one can fix. Are your kids using all resources available from the public sector? Can you continue to provide support for all these people indefinitely?