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Old 07-06-2021, 08:56 PM   #121
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Your comment about they all called themselves wealth management. The folks doing the branding share idea's and jobs.
Sure, and they all try to get a share of the market. There is alot of money to be made.
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Old 07-06-2021, 11:14 PM   #122
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Some people are convinced that managing their investments is too hard. My sister falls in this group. She and I are both at Schwab, she has chosen the managed portfolio solution... I DIY. She pays 0.3% AUM. Which isn't bad. We've talked about it and she likes that she knows she won't panic and sell since there is sometimes in charge if her investments. The fees are low enough to make this a good solution for her.

Lots of my former co-workers (engineers) had high fee advisors because they were convinced it was too hard to invest. I preached the lazy portfolio mantra to them and got blank stares. These are people who understood complex math systems...

Same with other financial stuff. 529s... Blank stares. Expense ratios of funds in the 401k? Blank stares. The idea that pulling cash out in a refi *and* rolling in the refi fees increases the debt, even if you have a lower payment... Puzzled looks.


I agree. Iíve suggested to several friends that they might maximize their returns and minimize complexity with a simple DIY portfolio. Or, hire a fee-only advisor as needed but do routine portfolio maintenance themselves. Most do not listen as they think itís too hard. Iím talking about people with MBAís.

I can understand it. We hired an FA for several years - 3 years prior to ER. We kept her for 5 years, probably 2 years longer than we should have. She wasnít a bad FA but I concluded that those on this forum who recommended DIY were correct. I reached that conclusion by comparing our performance to blended benchmark indices and determined that we were about on market performance, minus the fees we were paying. The fees were low percentage wise, but still lots of cash out the door. So we went DIY almost 4 years ago and itís been great.
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Old 07-07-2021, 01:45 AM   #123
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I always try to help people with investing. They rarely want to make the effort.

Every time I fail I ultimately benefit when their poor choices fuel my investment gains.

Well I did try.
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Old 07-07-2021, 03:42 AM   #124
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I always try to help people with investing. They rarely want to make the effort.

Every time I fail I ultimately benefit when their poor choices fuel my investment gains.

Well I did try.
I was in a hotel a few years ago when I noticed a lot of basketball players attending meetings in the convention area. When inquiring one told me that every player drafted into the NBA every year has to attend a mandatory one week seminar and classes together taught by current and former NBA players and coaches , owners, financial execs and doctors. The drafted players going into their first NBA season learn financial awareness, ethics, pros and cons of social media, life after basketball, drugs, temptations while playing to include basketball groupies. I think this is a very good thing to teach these young men who had become instant millionaires.
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Old 07-07-2021, 09:33 AM   #125
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I always remind DW:
"Rich people are rich as long as they have a paycheck coming in. Wealthy people are wealthy without one."

IMO, more wealthy people understand personal finance better than rich people; that's how they stay that way.

"We don't get money, we have money" Bill Weld
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Old 07-07-2021, 09:46 AM   #126
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Years ago I went to a conference with 2 doctors I worked with (I was in Admin) - both were very intelligent and very nice men, not ego-maniacs. One night at dinner they talked to each other about investments, what they were doing and what others had told them to do. Not once did they include me in their conversation. I’m guessing they assumed I couldn’t add anything and didn’t have any money.

I knew about what they made and I made only about $10,000 less than them, but my expenses were far less. I just listened and by the end of dinner I realized I knew more than they did about investing and had more money than they did. I just smiled and ordered another beer.
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Old 07-07-2021, 10:16 AM   #127
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I have a question. If you know them well enough to know they are intelligent and nice, why not hop into the conversation?

They may not have thought others would be interested, and been pleased you could add something.

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Years ago I went to a conference with 2 doctors I worked with (I was in Admin) - both were very intelligent and very nice men, not ego-maniacs. One night at dinner they talked to each other about investments, what they were doing and what others had told them to do. Not once did they include me in their conversation. Iím guessing they assumed I couldnít add anything and didnít have any money.

r.
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Old 07-07-2021, 10:18 AM   #128
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Years ago I went to a conference with 2 doctors I worked with (I was in Admin) - both were very intelligent and very nice men, not ego-maniacs. One night at dinner they talked to each other about investments, what they were doing and what others had told them to do. Not once did they include me in their conversation. Iím guessing they assumed I couldnít add anything and didnít have any money.

I knew about what they made and I made only about $10,000 less than them, but my expenses were far less. I just listened and by the end of dinner I realized I knew more than they did about investing and had more money than they did. I just smiled and ordered another beer.
Great story. Love those. It reminds me of a commercial I used to see where 2 self important guys dressed in suits are in some small diner. There is a classic very expensive car(I think a porsche) in the parking lot and the waitress runs out and tells someone to get away from her car. The 2 guys look dumbfounded. Priceless. I think the ad was actually for a brokerage or wealth management firm but nevertheless...
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Old 07-07-2021, 11:02 AM   #129
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I have a question. If you know them well enough to know they are intelligent and nice, why not hop into the conversation?

They may not have thought others would be interested, and been pleased you could add something.
I tend not to offer people advice that donít ask. They were clearly not looking for me to join the conversation, but that doesnít mean they werenít nice guys.
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Old 07-07-2021, 12:33 PM   #130
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I have a question. If you know them well enough to know they are intelligent and nice, why not hop into the conversation?

They may not have thought others would be interested, and been pleased you could add something.
Advice is often given but rarely taken. Why waste your breathe?
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Old 07-07-2021, 03:18 PM   #131
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I always remind DW:
"Rich people are rich as long as they have a paycheck coming in. Wealthy people are wealthy without one."

IMO, more wealthy people understand personal finance better than rich people; that's how they stay that way.

"We don't get money, we have money" Bill Weld
I think the above nails it.

There are plenty of high income earners not much worried about the future because working another month means another $50k (or more) in income.

Plus they think they'll never be forced into involuntary retirement.

"What, me worry?"
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Old 07-07-2021, 03:38 PM   #132
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I think the above nails it.

There are plenty of high income earners not much worried about the future because working another month means another $50k (or more) in income.

Plus they think they'll never be forced into involuntary retirement.

"What, me worry?"
During the 2008 , 09 recession , dealerships in my area were flooded with low mileage luxury cars for sale when car owners had to sell their toys to raise cash.
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Old 07-08-2021, 12:03 PM   #133
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In the Millionaire Next Door Book, the author points out the research shows doctors are notoriously some of the most under accumulators of wealth (UAW), btw. They typically don't spend much time learning financial matters and rely much on their incomes.
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Old 07-08-2021, 12:08 PM   #134
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In the Millionaire Next Door Book, the author points out the research shows doctors are notoriously some of the most under accumulators of wealth (UAW), btw. They typically don't spend much time learning financial matters and rely much on their incomes.
In general, I am not surprised.
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Personal finance ignorance among the otherwise intelligent
Old 07-08-2021, 01:27 PM   #135
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Personal finance ignorance among the otherwise intelligent

The MND authors called it ďBeing great at offense, terrible at defense,Ē and it certainly is not just doctors but more like, ďAmericansĒ.
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Old 07-08-2021, 06:29 PM   #136
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I have degrees in physics and mechanical engineering. I had a successful science career. I understand quantum mechanics and general relativity but I donít understand investing. It is not for lack of trying. Otherwise smart & successful people can be unsuccessful when it comes to money. I was only able to ER because luckily I had a career that lead to a great pension. I am also very good at saving and living below my means.
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Old 07-08-2021, 07:12 PM   #137
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One interesting aspect that I believe contributes to personal finance ignorance are how things like market drops are headlined in the general media. It gives the impression that investing is a scary thing. For example, searching for "S&P 500" for today comes up with these headlines:

"Dow drops more than 250 points amid global economic recovery concerns, S&P 500 slides"

"Why economists think bond yields are falling, slamming the S&P 500 and the Dow"

"Stocks pull back from records as growth concerns reignite"

"Dow, S&P 500 and Nasdaq log worst day in 3 weeks amid unrelenting slump in Treasury yields"

"S&P 500 Closes Lower as Volatility Returns Amid Growth Jitters"

Nothing along the lines of "markets have minor pullback but are still much higher for the year" or even "market down today, but that is nothing unusual, ups and downs are normal". It can easily impact the view of someone assuming these headlines are by the "experts" and who is not willing to delve deeper.
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Old 07-08-2021, 07:34 PM   #138
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Old 07-08-2021, 07:38 PM   #139
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Old 07-08-2021, 08:13 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by marko View Post
I always remind DW:
"Rich people are rich as long as they have a paycheck coming in. Wealthy people are wealthy without one."

IMO, more wealthy people understand personal finance better than rich people; that's how they stay that way.

"We don't get money, we have money" Bill Weld
Great post, marko, IMHO, one of the best of the year!
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