Really frugal? Read on...

[aja8888]

for humans? If so, can you name some? I want to be strong, but not that strong.

No, those products get sold in bulk to other food companies.

With regard to canned tuna, the fish are cleaned and the meat is graded by hand while moving along a conveyor belt. The raw tuna is put into cans and a lid is sealed on the full at the same time nitrogen gas is introduced in the void. Then the cans are put into retorts and heated until the tuna is cooked. Then labels are put on the cans based on the customer. It's all good. Canned shrimp is done this way too.

 

[H2ODude]

Gee whiz folks. Not sure I get the importance of what retirement's definition is. OTOH it depends on the definition of what is is.

Just to throw a little p__s on the fire, I think I would have considered myself financially independent 3-5 years before I quit. And I referred to DW as retired long before that. It almost seems like we have a p__ing contest about who REALLY is RE or FI or whatever and I'm not sure that's a productive discussion. While I considered myself FI long before I quit my job, at 60 I don't really consider myself to have retired early. So please don't throw me off the board, I enjoy this place!

 

[thefinancebuff]

What about this situation: a single person X stops working completely and lives off of their investments on $Y/year; i.e. the less controversial definition of "retirement".

Then, they meet a wonderful person and marry them. Their partner happens to be working. So is now this person X UNretired? Did UNretirement happen when they got the marriage license or when they moved in together or when they started sharing expenses? What if person X's outflows from the investments is still $Y for the combined household?

Just wondering...

It depends on their income outside $Y relative to their combined expenses. If the partner earns $5Y and the combined expenses are $3Y, it's difficult to argue that $Y is cutting it. If the partner earns another $Y after tax and the combined expenses stay at $Y, remember money is fungible ...

 

[dvalley]

Who cares about FI, ER, ESR, ERS, I wanna talk about substituting cat food for dinner. Can I use it as topping on my pizza - which I make out of two stacked tortillas and spoiled-milk cheese, pasta sauce is usually optional.

 

[HFWR]

Who cares about FI, ER, ESR, ERS, I wanna talk about substituting cat food for dinner. Can I use it as topping on my pizza - which I make out of two stacked tortillas and spoiled-milk cheese, pasta sauce is usually optional.

I think most pizza chains already do that. We used to get bags of "pellets" labeled "beef topping" and "pork topping"...

 

[youbet]

Goodness people, don't we know by now that anything means whatever it's author intends it to mean, ie. if it gets the effect he is after, that is all that matters. I am a superhero, I am retired, I am a master of the universe. If I say so, it must be true

Well...... In that case I'm a "Sensitive New Age Guy!" And damn proud of it!

 

[FUEGO]

But you are also dependent on your wife's working for your health insurance. Would you be able to forgo her income and pay for your entire family's HI for many years (even with the ACA) if she were not working?

If I were married and were able to piggyback onto her employer's group health plan, I'd have been able to retire years before I actually did. HI was my biggest obstacle to ER back in 2008 (before the ACA).

Her employment is actually an impediment to us getting good health insurance through the ACA exchange (employer provided insurance = not eligible for exchange policy). We would get a heavily subsidized silver plan for ~$1000/yr with lots of cost sharing. As is, we pay a little less than that for a high deductible plan through her employer. I expect we'll be better off financially with the exchange plan compared to our current employer provided HDHP.

We do get lightly subsidized dental insurance through her employer, but I've included out of pocket dental (with negotiated discounts) in my $32k/yr spending. The dental insurance still costs about what cleanings and routine xrays would cost, so it's almost a wash assuming minimal cavities. (Let's not discuss potential for braces right now... )

 

[robnplunder]

Who cares about FI, ER, ESR, ERS, I wanna talk about substituting cat food for dinner. Can I use it as topping on my pizza - which I make out of two stacked tortillas and spoiled-milk cheese, pasta sauce is usually optional.

People are going about this all wrong. Healthier way to get meat and at almost 0 cost is to set traps for pigeons, squirrels, mice, and other unsuspecting animals around us. They are free, organic, and will bring variety to your dinner table. No need to worry about recycling cat food cans.

 

[CaliforniaMan]

Seems now this thread has morphed into the real definition of "retirement" v.s. packing tuna fish. But more importantly, yesterday my wife told me to put the clothes in the dryer, and today to put clothes away in the drawer. Before I could say I was busy working now what is my excuse? Should I say "Hey woman, I can't do that! I am Retired!" But then she might want to retire too. So wives get to retire too? Next think you know she will want me to empty the dishwasher and put away the dishes. Wait, I already do that. What about that tuna fish? is it really good to eat? I hear it has mercury. Darn, the world is complicated.

 

[smjsl]

It depends on their income outside $Y relative to their combined expenses. If the partner earns $5Y and the combined expenses are $3Y, it's difficult to argue that $Y is cutting it. If the partner earns another $Y after tax and the combined expenses stay at $Y, remember money is fungible ...

I see. So, basically, it goes something like:

X: I don't want to go on that expensive trip costing us $Y on its own - we don't have the money for it since we are already on track to spend $2Y this year. I don't think we really need it...

P: I make $5Y/year, I'll be happy to pay for it for both of us. I really want to go.

X: Uh oh, if I agree, I am no longer really considered "retired" or self-sufficient even, but it will make you happy and I could enjoy it too... But then how do I sleep at night? What to do... ?

Tough choices...

 

[dvalley]

Seems now this thread has morphed into the real definition of "retirement" v.s. packing tuna fish. But more importantly, yesterday my wife told me to put the clothes in the dryer, and today to put clothes away in the drawer. Before I could say I was busy working now what is my excuse? Should I say "Hey woman, I can't do that! I am Retired!" But then she might want to retire too. So wives get to retire too? Next think you know she will want me to empty the dishwasher and put away the dishes. Wait, I already do that. What about that tuna fish? is it really good to eat? I hear it has mercury. Darn, the world is complicated.

I know what you mean. Just yesterday my gf came home from work and decided to vacuum the house while I was watching TV. Then after some time she said to me "can you lift your legs off the ground so I can vacuum here"...I told her can't she do anything without asking for my help

 

[aja8888]

Seems now this thread has morphed into the real definition of "retirement" v.s. packing tuna fish. What about that tuna fish? is it really good to eat? I hear it has mercury. Darn, the world is complicated.

1. I suggest starting to eat cheap tuna out of cans as the economy may go south and you may just need to eat out of cans when your dollars get devalued into pennies.

2. There is little chance of finding mercury in tuna that is harvested and canned in the Atlantic region. Now tuna canned in Asian countries or China? Good luck!

3. This thread IS about cat food . Better stock up on it and buy the high priced brands.

 

[Moemg]

Fuego ! Great blog about cat food maybe you could expand into dog food .Their snacks always looked tasty !
This morning I woke up at 9am and after a leisurely breakfast . I read Early Retirement only to find out I am not retired because I make some money selling on ebay . So if you are making any money in retirement you are not retired . What if you won the lottery are you suddenly unretired ? What about inheritances do they disqualify you ? I guess Al is unretired since his books are selling . Seriously people get a grip ! If we are not plugging away at the same jobs and happen to occasionally make money we are retired .

 

[NW-Bound]

I seriously don't know how the myth about people eating cat food persists. Human food is not all that expensive. For example, I like to eat sardines for breakfast, and two of us have to share a can. Sardines do not live as long as larger predators such as tuna, hence have no accumulated mercury.

And we do like canned tuna too. A tuna salad sandwich often hits the spot for lunch. Yum!

 

[robnplunder]

2. There is little chance of finding mercury in tuna that is harvested and canned in the Atlantic region. Now tuna canned in Asian countries or China? Good luck!

Asian countries > China. Last time I've checked, China is still a part of Asia. Let's turn this thread into a geography nitpik'ng one.

 

[thefinancebuff]

So if you are making any money in retirement you are not retired.

Nobody said that. It's about percentages. If your profit on eBay covers 100% of your expenses, are you living on your portfolio or are you living on eBay selling? Money is fungible.

 

[Moemg]

Nobody said that. It's about percentages. If your profit on eBay covers 100% of your expenses, are you living on your portfolio or are you living on eBay selling? Money is fungible.

If I was living on my ebay selling I would be eating no name cat food !

 

[M Paquette]

I seriously don't know how the myth about people eating cat food persists. Human food is not all that expensive.

Especially if you buy the larger sacks...

 

[NW-Bound]

Especially if you buy the larger sacks...

There we go!

Now, come to think of it, I wonder how people really live in those tiny homes that we often see on the Web. How do they cook and store their provisions? Do they eat out all the time? Or eat frozen dinner everyday, or just open a can of food? Ramen noodle? Where do they store gallon-size cans of tomato? Entire case of chicken broth? Room for two large refrigerators like we have?

Whenever we went on an RV trip, my wife would stock up supplies like we were going on an Arctic expedition. Never mind that we stopped at Costco all the time for gas, and also Walmart to overnight quite often when enroute. And then, when we saw something that was on sale there, my wife would buy a case to bring home!

This reminded me of our 1st trip ever to Seattle, decades ago. We stopped by a grocery store for something, saw that they had beer on sale. The price was too good to pass up, so we got a case or two to throw in the trunk of our hatchback car.

Later, when we were unpacking at a motel, a man walked by and saw our cases of beer through the open hatchback, whistled and said "Wow, what a party!". He really thought that we were going to party at that motel and going to trash the place.

 

[FUEGO]

I seriously don't know how the myth about people eating cat food persists. Human food is not all that expensive. For example, I like to eat sardines for breakfast, and two of us have to share a can. Sardines do not live as long as larger predators such as tuna, hence have no accumulated mercury.

And we do like canned tuna too. A tuna salad sandwich often hits the spot for lunch. Yum!

I'm part of the problem. I help perpetuate the myth with irresponsible articles like the one in the OP's post.

But seriously, you're right. Canned tuna isn't much more expensive than canned cat food. We don't eat canned tuna a lot, but I definitely enjoy the occasional tuna salad.

 

[FUEGO]

Fuego ! Great blog about cat food maybe you could expand into dog food .Their snacks always looked tasty !
This morning I woke up at 9am and after a leisurely breakfast . I read Early Retirement only to find out I am not retired because I make some money selling on ebay . So if you are making any money in retirement you are not retired . What if you won the lottery are you suddenly unretired ? What about inheritances do they disqualify you ? I guess Al is unretired since his books are selling . Seriously people get a grip ! If we are not plugging away at the same jobs and happen to occasionally make money we are retired .

I'm still working out the rules of "early retirement orthodoxy" myself, so I'll defer to the experts.

I think you have to pick between making a few bucks on ebay and calling yourself retired.

In the meantime, I'm going to sit back and crack open an ice cold can of... cat food?

 

[aim-high]

Fuego, how much does Personal Capital pay per click-thru? Do they pay more if a click-thru registers for a PC account and more still if PC is able to convert them to a client?

Their affiliates are everywhere. They've raised $52.3M so far. I wonder when the IPO is.

One thing that bothered me about them is that after I put my information in, I immediately received an email selling their financial advisory services. I asked if the advisor had already viewed my account. He said their advisors have access to numbers only, no detail on investments.

 

[thefinancebuff]

I'm still working out the rules of "early retirement orthodoxy" myself, so I'll defer to the experts.

I think you have to pick between making a few bucks on ebay and calling yourself retired.

Making a few bucks on eBay is one thing. Having 100% of your living expenses covered by employment income (including self-employment income and employment income of a spouse) is quite another. Not knowing the difference or intentionally confusing the two is ... Sigh.

 

[Amethyst]

Having "plated up" quite a bit of cat and dog food in my time (for the intended consumers, I hasten to add) I'd vote against ever eating cat food, when dog food is to be had. Dog food smells like people food (e.g. beef stew). Cat food just smells nasty!

Amethyst

T.

What do you think about that image of cat food plated up next to some greens and apples? Or is it foie gras?

 

[FUEGO]

Fuego, how much does Personal Capital pay per click-thru? Do they pay more if a click-thru registers for a PC account and more still if PC is able to convert them to a client?

Their affiliates are everywhere. They've raised $52.3M so far. I wonder when the IPO is.

One thing that bothered me about them is that after I put my information in, I immediately received an email selling their financial advisory services. I asked if the advisor had already viewed my account. He said their advisors have access to numbers only, no detail on investments.

Here's a quick primer internet advertising. There are 3 types ads. PPC, PPM, and PPA. Pay per click, pay per thousand, and pay per action, respectively.

PPC pays a small fee for each click. Google adsense tends to be this type. I don't know what the industry standards are, but I get roughly $0.50 to $2.00 when someone clicks on a google ad at my site.

PPM - these pay a rate per 1000 impressions (times the ad appears on a web page displayed to a visitor). Google adsense runs some of these ads, and private advertisers can also pay based on CPM method. I don't know the rates, but probably a couple bucks per 1000 impressions (under a penny per individual ad).

PPA - these advertisements pay when a specific "action" occurs. It's called a "conversion" in the lingo. This could be signing up for a service, applying or getting approved for a credit card or mortgage, or other financial product or service.

Personal Capital falls in the last category - pay per action. Or at least that's the method I'm using. They may have other payments structures, but I'm not familiar enough with them to know what all they offer.

The ads here at ER forums look like google adsense ads, so they are PPC or PPM.

For Personal Capital, a "conversion" occurs when someone signs up for the free investment and expense tracking and they add accounts that total $100,000 or more to their online displays. I'm not sure what account types count toward the $100k.

They pay $100 per "conversion". It sounds like a lot, but the pay is $0 for all those mere clicks that don't sign up, or sign up with under $100k assets, or for some reason are disqualified as a "conversion".

They might have other types of advertising that pays differently based on CPC or CPM, or having different asset thresholds. Just speculation on my part.

At my site, I recommend products and services that I know, use, and like, or have plans to use. Personal Capital is one of those services (the free part). For brokerage firms, I recommend Fidelity and Vanguard. Sometimes there are affiliate links that get me a commission if someone clicks through (PC), other times there aren't (Vanguard and Fidelity, for example).

I did contact Vanguard to see if they wanted to advertise at my site or if they have some commission program. They don't, but I'll advertise for them for free because I like them so much, and they can literally save the average FI seeker tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars over a lifetime.

My philosophy on making money from my blog is that it needs to be easy and legitimate. PPA advertising for products/services I like fit the criteria. If I make a buck or two (hundred) every once in a while, sweet. If not, that's okay too. If I were blogging for the money, it would be a piss poor way to make a living versus competing uses of productive effort. And I would be recommending a lot of different products and services that I don't personally like or use.

As for Personal Capital, I think they just hit $500 million in assets under management (per an email they sent me). I have no clue about their long term capitalization plans or if an IPO is in the works.

As for the marketing emails about advisory services, I didn't mind them. I talked to them on the phone and did a video conference with an adviser. He basically confirmed the underlying philosophy of my investment portfolio. I've never received another email or phone call from their advisory services team since.