Reducing/Estimating Expenses

[Katsmeow]

We are not yet retired. I am mid 50s, DH 62. I am trying to project future expenses for two scenarios - one scenario is we both retire. Scenario 2 is that DH works 4 more years and in a year or so I reduce my work hours or go into much lower paying work or retire (I have a highly stressful job). Our household income now is about 320k. I have a the higher salary but my job offers no real benefits except 401k. No pension, retiree health care, etc. DH works for mega corp and has great benefits.

Anyway, reading old threads here I see people talking about basic expenses in retirement of around $40k (some less). Then I see a group who puts it more around $70 to $80k. Those above $100k are to some extent outliers.

I confess that DH and I do not have a lifetime of frugality behind us. Some of that is related to child related expenses, part of it to poor decisions. Over the past several years we have actually lived quite frugally as a large part of our income has gone to debt repayment or child related expenses (kids are all teenagers, two to soon be in inexpensive college). With kids going to college, we do not need the large house we have and plan to move to a much smaller house.

However when I project expenses I find it difficult to get below $90k in such a house even with DH working (our medical would be low since I would be on his plan but we would have college expenses of about $12k a year). If I project retirement for both and no kids I get about $70k expenses not including medical (DH would have retiree medical but I would not).

So I want to go over some expenses and get some feel for what I'm missing on how expenses can be so low for some. Maybe I just am unrealistic in how high I am projecting or maybe I am just valuing some expenses more than others would. I'm not going to mention all expenses as some of them are clearcut (if you have a pool then that is an expense, dining out is easily to analyze).

All expense numbers are annualized based upon data over the last 16 months unless other wise indicated.

Auto repair and maintenance - $3219. We have 3 cars, which will soon be 2 (we are giving one to our oldest son). One car is newish and under warranty. The other two are a 2004 Quest and 1999 Lexus. Even if I assume that this cost is half this when our son gets the oldest car that is still $1600 a year. I can see fuel costs going down substantially during retirement but will repair and maintenance. We do drive a lot know so maybe somewhat but how much would it go down if driving substantially less?

Home Repairs and Maintenance - $6278. That number doesn't include the $8000 in landscaping/tree removal costs post Hurricane Ike or the $1450 for tree branch removal when another big storm came through. We have 2 acres with huge trees. Of that $6278 about 25% of it is household supplies/maintenance/minor repair -- the stuff we do ourselves. About $300 a year is pest control (living on acreage we have to keep the rats at bay). About 60% of it is repairs. About $3000 was repairing the well in a major event. Right now we have a large house (over 4000 square feet), 2 garages, and a guest house. So there is a lot to maintain. We plan to move to a house of about 2500 square feet probably on an acre with less trees. Estimating future repairs and maintenance is really hard.

Insurance -- Homeowners is $2200 a year, umbrella about $1400, auto $4600 (it did not help that our 18 year old son had a relatively minor but at fault auto accident -- we also have another son who will soon start driving so this expense will be high for years). hard to estimate homeowners and umbrella when we move.

Electricity - $6171 - This will go down when we move, not sure by how much.

Overall projected expenses if we moved to a 2500 square foot house near DH's work - 2 adults, 2 teenagers in house - per month

Auto Fuel - $150
Auto Main/Repair - $250
Toll Road - $50
Children/school related - $1600
Property Tax - $350
Dining out - $200
Groceries - $600
Healthcare - $550
Household supplies/repairs/maintenance/yard - $300 (total guesstimate)
Ins Auto - $400
Ins House - $100 (guesstimate)
Ins Umbrella - $100 (guesstimate)
Computers/electronic/software - $200 (computers are getting long in tooth)
Entertainment - $200 (Leisure activities)
Internet/Cable - $150
Travel - $100
mortgage - $1500 (will likely pay off at some point)
Clothing/cleaning - $100
Gifts - $250 - In addition to our 3 children, DH has 3 adult children, 9 grandchildren and 3 greatgrandchildren
Personal care - $50
Pets - $350 (this expense I understand - we have several large dogs and 2 cats)
Electricity - $300 (Guesstimate)
Garbage - $37
Phone - $200


That works out to about $98k a year and I struggle to cut it other than give up activites that we enjoy (the computer stuff for me and DH's dog showing).

 

[ziggy29]

My first impression is that it will be hard to seriously cut expenses if "downsizing the house" still means 2500 square feet. You might be better served holding off on the home downsizing until all the kids are out of the house. Would you still need close to 2500 sf then?

The best time to cut expenses to retirement-levels, IMO, is while you are still working. It would be unfortunate to quit your jobs based on some spending plan that turns out to be unrealistic for the retirement lifestyle you want. It might not be easy to cut more or (worse) have to go back to work.

 

[youbet]

Some of your line items look a tad high, but before I comment on those, there are two more major items I'd appreciate your comments on.

1. How are you accounting for taxes, particularly income taxes?

2. Do you need to reduce your budget below $90k in retirement? With both you and DH making excellent salaries, I assume you'll have a combined $40k+ IN SS benefits. You mentioned DH having excellent benefits at MegaCorp, does that include a pension? What will your retirement portfolio look like? If DH's pension is in the $40k range and your retirement portfolio is in the $1.5M range, reducing expenses below $90k will not be required. It would be more of an exercise of going over your budget to ensure you're spending your money where you'd get the biggest bang for your buck in terms of retirement enjoyment.

Edit: I just did a quick FireCalc run with you folks retiring in January, 2013. DH begins SS immediately, you begin when you're 62. DH has a MegaCorp non-cola pension of $40K. You have a retirement portfolio of $1.5M. (These are guesses I made based on your current income and other statements you made.) FireCalc says if you spend $90k/yr, including paying your taxes, you have a 100% survival rate.

Do you really need to drop your budget below $90k?

 

[Katsmeow]

I do agree with you but some expenses you can't cut until you quit working. Right now for example we have high auto related expenses based upon where we live in relation to our jobs (at least one of us will have to drive a long distance each day). While working I have certain clothing related expenses that I won't have retired, etc.

2500 square feet is probably the max we would want. I don't see us going below 2000 but anything from 2000 to 2500 is fine. Originally we were going to wait until all kids where gone before downsizing. At the time we had 6 people living in this house. Next fall it will be 4. But it being 2 in the house is at least 5 years away. Our current house has a mortgage that is fine related to income (it is a little more than 10% of our gross income). However, the upkeep is very high -- the house is not energy efficient, tree maintenance expensive...we would save about $36k a year by moving to a 2500 sw foot house

 

[LOL!]

We have 3000+ sq ft house (w/ 2 teenagers) in south Texas, but our utility bills are around $2200 annually. So you must have a 5000 sq ft guest house to be paying more than $6000 a year in just electricity. I would have the electric utility come out to the house and figure out what is wrong.

Auto repairs: You have good brands of autos, so why is the repair and maintenance so high? I have 2001 Lexus and it costs about $400 a year. I don't buy everything the Lexus dealer tries to sell me. The costs are to replace worn tires, battery,and brakes (rare), then just oil changes. What else is going wrong with your cars?

I can't believe your travel is only $100/month. We spend lots more on travel. We dine out more, but do our own yard work. We have maids that come every other week.

That $1600 a month for kids must include college costs. For our HS kids we pay for professional coaching, art classes, trips to Peru, and summer camps and it comes no where close to $19K a year.

Your proposed budget looks in-line with ours, but our insurance costs are lots less, but somehow we are spending $10K to $20K less per year.

 

[ksr]

Anyway, reading old threads here I see people talking about basic expenses in retirement of around $40k (some less). Then I see a group who puts it more around $70 to $80k. Those above $100k are to some extent outliers.

I suspect that a lot of people who have annual expenses in the 40K range are not paying mortgages (either have paid-for homes or have found an inexpensive way to rent their home). As you mentioned, your children/school budget adds significantly to your expenses, but so does your mortgage. You note that you might pay it off at some point - that would make a big difference in your annual expenses.

Also, your phone expenses at $200/month look awfully high. Are you heavy users of cell phones? We have a landline and two prepaid cell phones (for emergency use) and our total is well under $50/month.

 

[mews]

I second what LOL! said about getting your utility to check the house -

That electric bill amount nearly caused me to fall off my chair!

ta,
mew

 

[LOL!]

A colleague told me this story about a new neighbor. The neighbor had lived in the house since March and at the first snow he noticed that his driveway was pristine and moist since the snow had all melted while other driveways needed to be shoveled. It turned out that his electric bills were huge: He hadn't known about the heated driveway and had left it turned on all spring-summer-fall.

 

[Katsmeow]

Electricity

LOL! we are in Texas also although closer to Houston. As far as electricity that has been an albatross around our neck in this house. We've had an energy audit down and spent a lot of time on trying to figure this out. The house itself is about 4500 square feet, 2 stories, built about 15 years ago, not energy efficient at all. We have 2 double garages, once of which has a window unit AC in it as our dogs stay there. We do have a pool but do not heat it. The guest house is not that large (1 bedroom) and its energy usage is not high as it mostly for, well, guests or when family visits. We do not have natural gas so everything is all electric. The house is zoned with 3 separate zones and we have programmable thermostats which we use. However, until recently due to schedules there was usually someone in the house most of the time.

Auto repair and maintenance

Tires for the Lexus, tires for the Nissan Quest. Several small repairs for the Lexus totalling about $600. The good news is that the Lexus is now our son's car and maintenance is his. It has about 180k miles. Rest is regular servicing, oil and filter changes, occasional car wash.

Travel

Over the last few years we have traveled very little, mostly occasional visits to my mother or bringing her to visit us. That is basically fuel for a 4 hours drive. This summer we did go on our first real vacation in a while but were careful on spending. We used to travel a lot when kids where younger but really don't have that great an interest now.

Yard and Cleaning

We do our own yard work except when we have a storm and have lethally huge broken branches hanging down from very tall trees just waiting to drop on someone (hence some of our bills for tree/yard related stuff). We had a cleaning services for a few months but it was $400 a month for mediocre results so we gave it up. We are planning to put this house on the market probably next summer and will likely get a cleaning service for the duration of that.

Kids

The $1600 does include college costs and would be what it would be next fall. In the past, however, our child related costs were extremely high as we had a child who attended a therapeutic school at extremely high expense. He will soon be attending community college (best choice for him as he is under 18 and will be living at home) and that will be vastly cheaper than his private school was.

Mortgage and annual expenses

I agree that most I've seen with annual expenses of $40,000 to $50,000 probably don't have a mortgage. If we sell our current house and downsize, we will likely pay off the mortgage about the time DH retires so that would expenses by about $18k a year. I have done projections of when kids are gone so that $1600 a month is gone and certain other expenses (food, utilities, etc.) go down if there are 2 people in the house. However, once I'm not covered by DH's medical insurance and if I'm under 65 then I have to find health insurance in the private market so I still estimate our annual expenses at closer to $70,000

Discretionary spending

I know that a lot of this is discretionary spending. I look at which discretionary spending to cut and part of the problem is that there are not dramatic cuts without getting rid of everything.

Let's talk phones for example. For our main home service we have Vonage which we like and is cheap and has free long distance. We have $13 a month metered local service through ATT as DH has a DSL internet connection. We currently have 5 cell phones. DH and I have Blackberries through work which are actually owned by our employers who pay for the data plans, we pay for the phone service and are required to insure them. Our kids pay for the share of the phone service that they use. I looked at cutting minutes but even cutting them substantially saves us only $20 a month. I like the kids having cell phones since I like to be able to find them and they pay for it out of allowance anyway.

TV/Internet - I use cable internet. Until recently we had 6 people in the house using internet and live in a semi-rural area where cable and/or DSl go out a lot. It is nice to have two totally separate networks but is, I admit an indulgence. However, the net cost of that indulgence is the cost of the ATT land line and DSL which totals about $35 a month. For TV, my vote was to get rid of cable altogether since most everything can be found online anyway. I watch TV on the TV rarely. However we have a ridiculous number of cable connections, about half with HDTV. I would like to get rid of all but 2 of the cable connections and get a netflix box for one of the TVs. Even so, I've looked at it and it doesn't cut the bill very much.

 

[walkinwood]

18 months may be too little history for you to plan on. You've mentioned a number of one-offs. These will smooth out over time, so maybe the best thing to do now is to continue to monitor your expenses.

We found that the act of monitoring our expenses caused a change in behavior. We continued to spend on things that were important to us, but tried harder to stretch the buck. On the other hand, we drastically cut expenses that were not giving us much incremental satisfaction - like magazine subscriptions, pared down cable and cell phone services, and cut spending on "stuff". Anything that has a monthly fee needs to be closely examined, since they add up very quickly.

Your total need is going to be unique. I find that our expenses are on the high side compared to what I hear on the forum. Our location is a big reason, but we like living here and (so far) have been willing to pay the price.

All the best.

 

[LOL!]

I figured you were in a far suburb near Houston. The toll road bill and Ike give your general location away. You could be one of my neighbors. Anyways, I'm just letting you compare some things to our expenses.

We pay $55 a month for land-line with DSL. We pay $128 for 3 cell phones w/ unlimited texting. They are not my phones, so I don't worry about the cost. I'm sure the price has a couple of fancy phones embedded in it. We do not have cable, but use Netflix and an antenna in the attic to get local HDTV. My employer pays for my Blackberry. Anyways, your phone bills do not seem out of line to me except your employer should pick up more of the tab.

We had trees and limbs removed before Ike. Our plot is not as large as yours. It seems that prices go up when a tree is resting on your roof. Of course, insurance helps pay for trees actually on your house. We paid about $500 to get all this taken care of ahead of time. So for us, maybe an additional $600 total or $50 a month for yard maintenance including fertilizer, and annual flowers for summer and winter.

I'm sensing that you pay more because of you don't negotiate prices for services as well as others. This goes for tires, tree-trimming, insurance, maids, etc. For example, why would maid service cost $400 a month unless they came twice a week? What do your neighbors pay? Also you can still clean your own house in between maid visits, but have them clean the toilets (we have 4 in our house).

I'm seeing your insurance costs as outrageous (what if you made son get his own insurance and not be on your policies?). Have you shopped for insurance lately? We just switched ours to another firm when our oldest started driving. I think a 2500 sq ft home should not have a $1500 mortgage. Maybe your $1500 included homeowners insurance and property taxes (but you had those listed elsewhere)? Such a house should probably average only $120 a month in electricity costs.

Your $98K budget appears to be very realistic if not a bit on the low side, yet still more than we pay. Even so, you left out charitable giving which could be thousands of dollars. I'm gonna have to go back and look at what we spend.

 

[FANOFJESUS]

Kats that big house is killing you in more ways than one. What are the taxes on that thing? Texas is a cheaper place to live in a smaller home. The biggest house where I live is about 2800 square feet and eight people live in it.

 

[Katsmeow]

We do not have cable, but use Netflix and an antenna in the attic to get local HDTV.

This is what I wanted to do. The other people in the house won that one. Having said that, I think we will cut down on the cable service.

We had trees and limbs removed before Ike.

I have never loved trees. So hadn't really had a house before with a lot of trees. I was looking in the front yard the other day and just started counting trees. I stopped at 60. They are mostly very large pecan trees. To remove them and branches would cost a fortune. If you add in the back we are probably over 100 of them. When we bought this house, DH thought the trees were lovely. And, they are.

So, I don't know that I could effectively paid to avoid the problems we had during the hurricane. After the hurricane when it was cleaned up I had the service go around and look at all the trees for any branches close to breaking, etc. But I still had a $1450 bill this year when a big storm came through. Had a service out, same deal. Right now I have two huge branches in my front and in my back (the one in the back would have severely damaged the guest house if it had landed a few feet the other way). Since they are on the ground we can cut them up ourselves with the chain saw. Next house....no trees. Well, not like this.

I'm sensing that you pay more because of you don't negotiate prices for services as well as others. This goes for tires, tree-trimming, insurance, maids, etc. For example, why would maid service cost $400 a month unless they came twice a week?

We do negotiate prices. The tires were from NTW. The tree trimming we got quotes from 3 services for the recent work. Not for Ike. After Ike you couldn't get a quote from most places. We finally got the work done by a landscaping company that had done work for us before so were willing to. Had we not been an existing company they wouldn't have. We couldn't defer it at that time as we had brances on the power lines.

Maid service. We used a service, checked several in our area. At one point we discussed reducing from once a week to every other week. That reduced the cost by 1/4 only. We also had a couple of rooms that aren't used that much so excluded them from the work. An individual maid might well have been cheaper but did not really have a source for one. We haven't lived in this area long (about 3 years). I agree that would have been better if we could find one. Any ideas how to go about finding one if you don't know anyone who can recommend one?

I'm seeing your insurance costs as outrageous (what if you made son get his own insurance and not be on your policies?).

You can't do that since he is our dependent. I did check. He does pay, however, his share of the insurance which is about $2600 a year. So really DH and I are paying only a portion of the auto insurance cost. When our son had his accident, he also paid the $1000 deductible for our car to be repaired. I price insurance every year. The homeowners was $7000 our first year (!) but is $2200 now (the high expense was because we are more than 5 miles from a fire station...thankfully one has now been built that is a little closer)

I think a 2500 sq ft home should not have a $1500 mortgage.

We will be likely buying on a couple of acres and figure a mortgage of about $250,000 although we may be able to do it for less.

Such a house should probably average only $120 a month in electricity costs.

That would be good

 

[FIREd]

Anyway, reading old threads here I see people talking about basic expenses in retirement of around $40k (some less). Then I see a group who puts it more around $70 to $80k. Those above $100k are to some extent outliers.

Our basic living expenses have been sitting right around $47K/year since 2004. And that's if I include everything: groceries, autos (depreciation - one thing missing in your budget-, repairs, gas, insurance, taxes), home expenses (mortgage, repairs, pest control, property taxes and insurance), disability/life/medical insurance premiums, out-of-pocket medical expenses, pets and utilities (cable, internet, phone, water, electric, garbage, sewer, etc..). We live in an older, 2,500 sq. ft. house which is not particularly energy-efficient. But we have no kids, and only 2 cats and 2 cars.

When I look at your expenses, I think that your projected retirement expenses seem high overall but I can't really pinpoint any outrageous expenses either. I think that each category has the potential to be reduced somewhat if you are willing to shop around.

 

[lhamo]

You are making 320k/year, your basic expenses are less than 100k/year, and you still plan to take out a mortgage when you downsize? Why? Even if you are paying over 100k/year in taxes, you still should be able to save a substantial amount every year. Something here does not add up....

 

[Bimmerbill]

I just set up my accounts at mint.com and it is pretty good at tracking expenses. I spend a lot more on gas than I thought, and food too.

A few months of that should pinpoint where the $ is going.

 

[Coach]

Katsmeow, the auto and umbrella insurance lines stand out to me. I understand four drivers makes a big difference, but are you carrying collision and comprehensive on the two older cars? If so, you might reconsider. At your income level I would think you could easily drop them.

And you're spending what seems to me a lot for your umbrella liability insurance. What's your coverage?

Coach

 

[Katsmeow]

I understand four drivers makes a big difference, but are you carrying collision and comprehensive on the two older cars? If so, you might reconsider. At your income level I would think you could easily drop them.

The comprehensive/collision on the Lexus is now up to my son since he pays that part of the insurance. The Nissan Quest is a 2004 so isn't all that old.

Umbrella is $5 million.

You are making 320k/year, your basic expenses are less than 100k/year, and you still plan to take out a mortgage when you downsize? Why? Even if you are paying over 100k/year in taxes, you still should be able to save a substantial amount every year. Something here does not add up....

No my basic expenses will be less than 100k a year when we move and have 2 kids in college. Until recently our basic expenses included paying off debt which is gone now and child related expenses of over $50k a year (which we no longer have those expenses either). The result was that we don't have a lot of savings, almost all of which is in our 401k. We have enough to incur the expenses of selling this house, what we have reserved for college expenses and a good down payment on a new house...this house will about break even on sale. In addition to the 401k DH on retirement will get either a pension or lump sum retirement (lump sum will be about $700k).

 

[smjsl]

Overall projected expenses if we moved to a 2500 square foot house near DH's work - 2 adults, 2 teenagers in house - per month

Auto Fuel - $150
Auto Main/Repair - $250
Toll Road - $50
Children/school related - $1600
Property Tax - $350
Dining out - $200
Groceries - $600
Healthcare - $550
Household supplies/repairs/maintenance/yard - $300 (total guesstimate)
Ins Auto - $400
Ins House - $100 (guesstimate)
Ins Umbrella - $100 (guesstimate)
Computers/electronic/software - $200 (computers are getting long in tooth)
Entertainment - $200 (Leisure activities)
Internet/Cable - $150
Travel - $100
mortgage - $1500 (will likely pay off at some point)
Clothing/cleaning - $100
Gifts - $250 - In addition to our 3 children, DH has 3 adult children, 9 grandchildren and 3 greatgrandchildren
Personal care - $50
Pets - $350 (this expense I understand - we have several large dogs and 2 cats)
Electricity - $300 (Guesstimate)
Garbage - $37
Phone - $200


That works out to about $98k a year and I struggle to cut it other than give up activites that we enjoy (the computer stuff for me and DH's dog showing).

Here is a review of your items and how you could potentially save some money (obviously what I think is reasonable is different from others, but still even figures I suggest are sometimes way more than what others might have spent, esp. if they plan on $40k/year).

Auto Fuel - $150 => $100 (5miles*$3perGallon/20miles-a-gallon*30days=$22.5... quadruple it just in case and it's still less than $100)

Auto Main/Repair - $250
Toll Road - $50 => $10 - can you move somewhere to avoid this $600 yearly expense?
Children/school related - $1600 => how much will tuitions be?
Property Tax - $350
Dining out - $200 => 150
Groceries - $600 => 550

Healthcare - $550 => based on what? I found that on average, people actually are planning 12k/year for all medical related expenses just for 2 people... So, compared to others, this is quite low actually!

Household supplies/repairs/maintenance/yard - $300 (total guesstimate) => I assume this includes all the large jobs like roof replacement every 20 years or so, ACC replacement every so often, siding painting/replacement, paint jobs, etc?

Ins Auto - $400 => don't know what to say; I am more used to ~$700/YEAR for 2 cars, 2 people
Ins House - $100 (guesstimate) => prices up north are ~$500/YEAR for avg house about 30-40 years old.
Ins Umbrella - $100 (guesstimate) => $0... what is this for? Presumably you have a lot of money saved up and your kids are already teenagers, soon to be adults - what does this cover exactly?

Computers/electronic/software - $200 (computers are getting long in tooth) => make this $20, or are you buying a new computer every other month?

Entertainment - $200 (Leisure activities) => $150 (no particular reason, but see how much you will miss if anything). I note that you have dining out in separate category... I would combine the two.

Internet/Cable - $150 => $60
Travel - $100
mortgage - $1500 (will likely pay off at some point)
Clothing/cleaning - $100 - this includes maid service?
Gifts - $250 - In addition to our 3 children, DH has 3 adult children, 9 grandchildren and 3 greatgrandchildren => try $100/person/year.. For 20 people, that's $167/month. Make it $175 to be generous lol... By the way, do you get any gifts? Count those toward your entertainment
Personal care - $50
Pets - $350 (this expense I understand - we have several large dogs and 2 cats)
Electricity - $300 (Guesstimate) => move to a place where this is $150 (and that's high too perhaps)
Garbage - $37 => do people pay for garbage everywhere in Texas? just curious
Phone - $200 => $125 ($25 vonage, no land line needed if you have internet access above and cell phones, $100 for cell phones is a lot too)

Summary of monthly savings you might consider:
$50 fuel
$40 tolls
$100 dining out and groceries
$100 umbrella insurance
$180 computers/electronics
$90 cable/internet
$50 entertainment
$75 gifts
$150 electricity
$75 cell phones

Total potential savings: $910/month => ~11k/year

Other things that seem out of line:
- insurance for autos and house
- healthcare - are you sure it's not too low?
- children expenses beyond tuitions

Now, of course if you plan to spend each and every month $1500 on mortgage, $1600 on kids (beyond food/shelter), $350 on dogs, $100 clothing/clearning, $350 on property taxes, $300 for dining out and entertainment, etc, etc.. Then $11k year may not seem like much... but if you are wondering how people can live on 40k/year, they don't have many of the same expenses.

By the way, I am not saying you SHOULD necessarily save here. I pointed out where you could... As others mentioned, with $320k/year income you probably could have and might have saved enough to afford all of this

 

[Moemg]

. In addition to the 401k DH on retirement will get either a pension or lump sum retirement (lump sum will be about $700k).

So with the 700k and hopefully SS of $40k for both of you . You are looking at a retirement income of $68 K and you will have a mortgage . Seems a little (no a lot tight ) to me . I 'd start saving as aggressively as you can for the next few years .

 

[Katsmeow]

Here is a review of your items and how you could potentially save some money (obviously what I think is reasonable is different from others, but still even figures I suggest are sometimes way more than what others might have spent, esp. if they plan on $40k/year).

These are the expenses we would have a year from now if we sold our house that we own now and downsized to something 2000 to 2500 square feet.

Auto Fuel - $150 => $100 (5miles*$3perGallon/20miles-a-gallon*30days=$22.5... quadruple it just in case and it's still less than $100)

Currently we spend about $400 a month on fuel as we live along way from both my work and DH's work. The above is based upon living close to his work but then I would have to drive a long way to my work -- our workplaces are far apart.

Toll Road - $50 => $10 - can you move somewhere to avoid this $600 yearly expense?

We plan to move somewhere to avoid the current $3000 a year expense on this (we are spending $250 a month now). Once I no longer work we would avoid this entirely but while either DH or I work we will spend some on this to avoid to some very long traffic delays

Children/school related - $1600 => how much will tuitions be?

Tuition and school related expenses are about 80% of this.

Healthcare - $550 => based on what? I found that on average, people actually are planning 12k/year for all medical related expenses just for 2 people... So, compared to others, this is quite low actually!

During retirement I have this expense at much higher. Right now we have good insurance through DH's employer.

Household supplies/repairs/maintenance/yard - $300 (total guesstimate) => I assume this includes all the large jobs like roof replacement every 20 years or so, ACC replacement every so often, siding painting/replacement, paint jobs, etc?

This is meant to include both regular, irregular and savings for occasional expenses but is largely a guess particularly since we don't know exactly what the situation will be where we move (will it be brick, will be a newer home or older home, etc). Current expenses are much higher though

Ins Auto - $400 => don't know what to say; I am more used to ~$700/YEAR for 2 cars, 2 people

Our insurance would be much less if we had no kids on the policy. Teenage boys really add to the cost.

Ins House - $100 (guesstimate) => prices up north are ~$500/YEAR for avg house about 30-40 years old.

Two years ago I was paying $7000 a year due to having a pool and being more than 5 miles from a fire station. That was with a $10k a year deductible by the way. That has now gotten down to $2200 (new fire station was built closer to us). Having said that, many many people have inadequate homeowner's insurance. Most people have no clue about the different types of coverage available and don't understand, for example, the difference between an all risk and a named perils policy. Many people think that all insurance policies are the same in what they cover. They are wrong.

<i>Ins Umbrella - $100 (guesstimate) => $0... what is this for? Presumably you have a lot of money saved up and your kids are already teenagers, soon to be adults - what does this cover exactly?</I>

This is so that we won't be bankrupted if we get sued. We have a pool. What if someone wanders into our property (despite our fences) and drowns? We drive cars. What if we have an auto accident and someone is terribly injured or dies? You just never know. Umbrella insurance protects you against the possibility of a judgment that would exceed your homeowner's liability coverage or your auto liability.

Computers/electronic/software - $200 (computers are getting long in tooth) => make this $20, or are you buying a new computer every other month?

I replace my personal computer about every few years, same for dh. I admit this is an indulgence area for me and I like high end computers. This category also includes things like software (Windows 7 for example), any peripherals (new printer, mouse, keyboard, headphones, UPS, whatever). Truthfully $200 a month isn't enough for the kind of computers I like (my current computer is almost 3 years old and cost over $4000, the one I really wanted was $7000). Now I won't be getting those but it isn't realistic for me to think we will spend less than $200 a month on this category.

Clothing/cleaning - $100 - this includes maid service?

Cleaning = dry cleaning for my work clothes

Garbage - $37 => do people pay for garbage everywhere in Texas? just curious

We live in a semi-rural area with no public garbage pick up so this private service. If we move and have city services you pay for garbage usually as part of your water and sewer bill

 

[Katsmeow]

So with the 700k and hopefully SS of $40k for both of you . You are looking at a retirement income of $68 K and you will have a mortgage . Seems a little (no a lot tight ) to me . I 'd start saving as aggressively as you can for the next few years .

A little more. We have about 350k in 401k now so that with the 700k is 1.05 million and we should max out 401k for next 2 years. Our SS is higher than that. DH will take at his full retirement of 66. I'll probably take at 62.

Also we plan to not have a mortgage during retirement. That sort of depends on how much extra we can save over next couple of years and really depends on selling this house.

Oh and when kids are gone the projected budget goes down to about $70k.

 

[Rambler]

We have 3 levels of projections. Lowest is $88k per year. We also have 2 acres and 4500 ft house, in California. Would be hard to get much lower than that if we stay in the big house...and it is paid off. Next level is about $98k per year and includes extra gas, insurance, maintenance and depreciation on a smaller RV. Next level up is about $110k and includes a little bigger RV and a little more spending money. Bottom line though is that we could get by on less if we had a smaller home and smaller property, and no RV to go along with it. My guess is $60-75k would be enough for us if we decided to keep our older home at 1700 sq ft, and sell the newer McMansion (very unlikely...ask the DW...).

edit to add: figures include property tax but not income tax since that will vary by state and an individual's personal tax strategies.

R

 

[W2R]

I confess that DH and I do not have a lifetime of frugality behind us. Some of that is related to child related expenses, part of it to poor decisions. Over the past several years we have actually lived quite frugally as a large part of our income has gone to debt repayment or child related expenses (kids are all teenagers, two to soon be in inexpensive college). With kids going to college, we do not need the large house we have and plan to move to a much smaller house.

When the kids are out of college, your kid-related expenses should (will?) shrink to the hundreds of dollars, instead of thousands of dollars.

However when I project expenses I find it difficult to get below $90k in such a house even with DH working (our medical would be low since I would be on his plan but we would have college expenses of about $12k a year). If I project retirement for both and no kids I get about $70k expenses not including medical (DH would have retiree medical but I would not).

Medical is a very difficult problem these days. I will have lifetime medical due to being a federal employee so other than premiums, co-pays, and deductibles, that is not a factor in my retirement budget. I think it is extremely difficult to impossible to retire before one's kids get out of college, unless you have already put that money aside.

So I want to go over some expenses and get some feel for what I'm missing on how expenses can be so low for some.

I am a single person in a 1558 square foot house with one car and no desire for a bigger house or two cars. When you are retired, will you really need two cars? Will you really need 2500 square feet?

Home Repairs and Maintenance - $6278. That number doesn't include the $8000 in landscaping/tree removal costs post Hurricane Ike or the $1450 for tree branch removal when another big storm came through.

Hurricane damage is expensive. It cost me $900 to have a medium sized tree removed that was leaning on my roof after Katrina. I waited until June of the following year since prices were shockingly high right after Katrina. Another tree, this one very large, was weakened severely by Katrina and big branches fell during Hurricane Gustav knocking down my neighbor's fence. He wouldn't accept reimbusement (great neighbor!) but I had the tree removed as a courtesy after that: $1500. I don't have 2 acres like you - - just a 50'x100' lot. I think that my house will be more sellable without the beautiful trees, since most here are pretty leery of trees due to hurricanes.

Who retires in a huge house with a fleet of cars, anyway? That's not what life is all about for most people, especially after getting past the "Gee, I'm a success!" part of life. I think that if you re-think these expenses, then when your children are self-sufficient you will be spending a lot less.

 

[Lazarus]

With Social security and your assets you can generate maybe about 85K. So you will need to get your costs to below about 70K. Taxes you know.

I make about a 3d your house hold income and have more in my 401K and am about a decade younger than your DH. Honestly you have made a lot of money and spent most of it. You cant use your past life style to support you in retirement. Better downsize now. That will help you save during your remaining years and not force a much more painful adjustment later.

My projected retirement requirement is about 60K. No maids, no trips, house paid for.