student loans

Bigdawg

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https://www.ramseysolutions.com/deb...eld back by the burden of their student loans

"Over half(53%) of those who took out student loans to pay for school say they regret doing so. In an even more striking find, 43% of those who took out student loans regret going to college all together".

All HS students should read this. College can be and has been a ticket to success for so many young adults. For others it was a mistake and many are saddled with debt that slows their financial progress.
 
Completely agree that HS students should be more educated about the effects of student loan debt. Too often the message is just go to college at any cost - but it doesn't make financial sense to take out six-figure student loans for non-marketable degrees. On the other hand, if a kid wants to take out a six figure loan and go to MIT for an IT degree they are likely to make money hand over fist after graduating - so that is a different calculation altogether.
 
This seems crazy high to me. Sure, nobody likes debt, but I can't imagine, with a do-over, that many would choose not to go to college.
 
I believe, in a lot of cases, high schoolers start college ill informed, or unwilling to be informed - about being paid for doing a job after college when the pay for those jobs is shown, clearly in most cases, to be low - or, even, nonexistent.

The “system” continues to prey upon these folks by offering psychology and English and communications majors (examples only) the same amount of loans/money, as they do science, technology and engineering majors - when the “system” knows these folks will be paid far less money post graduation.

There are many moving parts, and many levers to help correct this imbalance ... differential loans based on majors, redirection of some into technical non-white collar (trades) jobs, etc ... but, action is required.
 
Can you say "bias"?


A survey saying people regret debt put out by a company that has made their fortune helping people get out of debt is pretty suspect in my mind.
 
Completely agree that HS students should be more educated about the effects of student loan debt. Too often the message is just go to college at any cost - but it doesn't make financial sense to take out six-figure student loans for non-marketable degrees. On the other hand, if a kid wants to take out a six figure loan and go to MIT for an IT degree they are likely to make money hand over fist after graduating - so that is a different calculation altogether.




You are talking about 17 and 18 YO kids here. In my mind this the primary thing a parent needs to monitor in regards to their kids college choices. These kids have never payed a bill in their lives, they have concept of what this entails.
 
You are talking about 17 and 18 YO kids here. In my mind this the primary thing a parent needs to monitor in regards to their kids college choices. These kids have never payed a bill in their lives, they have concept of what this entails.

To be honest some parents aren't that informed either (or just think its the kids' decision) making it the blind leading the blind.

I know someone who paid for their daughter's private university education. She majored in gender studies and graduated with honors. She currently works a low-paying job as an entry level medical assistant in a doctor's office (which does not even require a college degree) and already struggling with making ends meet. He is honestly surprised that she is struggling and thought once she had a degree she would make enough to support herself. So not all parents give good guidance on what to major in to their kids.
 
He is honestly surprised that she is struggling and thought once she had a degree she would make enough to support herself.
A great many jobs require a degree, but really don't care what that degree is in. I know plenty of people with Liberal Arts degrees who have great, high-paying jobs. It isn't the degree that's the problem if the individual isn't a go-getter out looking for good positions.
 
A great many jobs require a degree, but really don't care what that degree is in. I know plenty of people with Liberal Arts degrees who have great, high-paying jobs. It isn't the degree that's the problem if the individual isn't a go-getter out looking for good positions.

I would agree, but only so far.

At issue is the repayment of loans - and those with degrees in unpopular topics are not going to be able to repay them - and, certainly not quickly following graduation.
 
I would agree, but only so far.

At issue is the repayment of loans - and those with degrees in unpopular topics are not going to be able to repay them - and, certainly not quickly following graduation.
I certainly agree that many folks borrow way too much almost regardless of the field of study.
 
I would agree, but only so far.

those with degrees in unpopular topics are not going to be able to repay them -

A degree in an "unpopular topic?" What's that?
 
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Most all high school students have absolutely zero knowledge of the cost/benefit concept. They only hear go to college, with no discussion about a major that has significantly better chances of tilting the codt/benefit ratio. Doesn't excuse them from the debt payback in my world.
I agree that kids do not get wise advice from biased counselors.
 
This seems crazy high to me. Sure, nobody likes debt, but I can't imagine, with a do-over, that many would choose not to go to college.

I suspect most here who attended college also graduated from college.

I suspect the survey in the OP article is of a random sample of Americans, which would probably end up including people who did not graduate from college. The percentage of people who started college but did not finish may seem high to people here.

I think there is some correlation - not sure how much - between having college loans and not finishing college.

I know there is a decent amount of correlation between finishing college and high incomes (although partial college is associated with higher income than just high school).

I think it is easy to regret taking out student loans when one does not finish and thus achieve the higher income. I think the survey is picking up responses from these people.

...

My requirement for paying for my kids' college is that they get a degree that has a reasonable chance of them finding employment at an income level that they are happy to live on. So far so good.
 
RANT WARNING! Remember, I told you so.

Odd subject to me and it will bring out my bias(s). My idea of a "college loan" was asking for $5 from my dad to tide me over the week end 'cause I had a date - oh, and "Dad, can I borrow either the delivery van or the family station wagon to go out Saturday night?"

RANT WARNING - RANT WARNING - RANT WARNING

When I was a kid - you know "middle class" 18 YO HS Senior, I knew within a broad sense what I wanted to "be" when I grew up (in the sciences - so I called it being a "scientist.") I knew in a very rough sense (through research) what such a "c@reer" would pay. I knew what it would cost to get the required degree (researching state supported schools). I knew how long it would take (exactly 4 year - no more, no less.) I knew what it would cost to get student housing OR to stay with mom and dad and do chores, etc. I knew I could make everything I needed to accomplish my goals by working summers and weekends - NO DEBT AT END. This included Science job WITH state school degree LIVING either in abysmal student housing - it was all abysmal in those days though some more abysmal than others - or with mom and dad and GOING exactly 4 years.

And I did THAT exact plan and then FIRED 36 years later (FI'd after 29 years.) Why do you think they call it W*RK, kid?

SO, these days, middle class kids have to decide if they want to take a year off and "bum" around Europe or The Americas or the Far East first. "Poor" kids skip the bumming and do FASFA right away to see how they'll get the $25K/yr to $80K/yr for an out of state school with housing. Then pick between "gender" studies or "humanities" or "Psych" or "Gummint" or just maybe even actually prepare for a "real job." Paying off loans? Nyyyeeehhhh! They'll figure that out when/if they get that first POS j*b paying $30K. Maybe they'll just try to stiff the gummint since quite a few degrees don't get a real job anymore. By the way, no one seems interested in plumbing or electrical or building trades, generally, etc. Now there's gold in them there j*bs if yer willin'

So what's the big difference between now and 50 years ago? Okay, I told you I was biased, so here goes. Back THEN, college/university wasn't a "right" but you could actually afford a state school IF you had decent grades AND you were willing to w*rk 50 hours/wk during summer AND you'd go to a state school and live in a slum (yours or the university's). OR you'd go to a trades school or just drive a truck and work your way up to a decent if unfulfilling (or maybe fulfilling) j*b.

Now it's college is a right and the gummint will loan you the money to go to as good a school as you're willing to pay back the loan (much tougher to stiff them as it was for a while.)

So the big difference I see in the actual school. Oddly, my alma mater STILL graduates just about the same numbers but the relative cost is about 4 times as much (not numerically, relative). The housing is better - though not grand. There are (literally) 3 more levels of bureaucracy in between the TAs that actually do all the teaching and the Dean/President. Relative salaries earned upon graduation are much lower (with some very notable exceptions) because of that thing called, er, ahh, you know, oh yeah "supply and demand."

Okay, I'm sure someone will say "you're biased" (told you so) or college IS a right! "Kids" should be well rounded - hey I'm VERY round these days!:facepalm::LOL: Things are DIFFERENT now. Or, the biggie "You're exaggerating!" Well, yeah! Maybe a little bit but I submit that YMMV.

END OF RANT - END OF RANT - END OF RANT -
 
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My son always wanted to be a teacher. He really liked Mac and Cheese as a kid so we knew at least he wouldn't starve. He filled out his FAFSA application and went to the local community college for the first 2 years to get the BS classes out of the way. It just so happened that shortly after his first 2 years were complete, that same local community college was transitioning to a 4 year state school and offered a program that my son was interested in at a cost much lower than some other schools in the area that he applied to. He stayed there and received his degree in Early Childhood Education with an ESOL certificate and is currently teaching 3rd grade. His entire student loan bill for his education was $33,000.00. Quite a manageable debt which he is paying back monthly. He is happy and loves what he does for a living. :)



Mike
 
Our youngest daughter received some financial assistance for higher education through our State Department of Rehab. In order to get that she had to research her selected career path (nursing), including educational requirements and cost as well as job prospects, trends and salaries. She had to submit a written report to the Department for approval.

She certainly realized through this process the benefit/costs of higher education, likely financial outcome and the financial commitment we were making.

She graduates this month with a grad degree from Johns Hopkins in Baltimore and thanks to her research has a very solid understanding of what salary and benefits a nursing degree from a top tier university will fetch in various markets.
 
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https://www.ramseysolutions.com/deb...eld back by the burden of their student loans



"Over half(53%) of those who took out student loans to pay for school say they regret doing so. In an even more striking find, 43% of those who took out student loans regret going to college all together".



All HS students should read this. College can be and has been a ticket to success for so many young adults. For others it was a mistake and many are saddled with debt that slows their financial progress.



This might not be a popular opinion, but if I can go to the library and learn the same amount that I would learn in college, then it is probably not a major worthy of going after.
Lawyers, doctors, engineers, architects, etc, need those with greater knowledge, to get them to the next level. The books alone just cannot get you there alone. And just a tip. If your degree ends in the word studies, you probably want to switch majors... [emoji33]
 

Heh, heh, only if you want a j*b, of course. YMMV
 
Enrolled in the college of engineering, the first couple years were pretty much the same. Halfway through the sophomore year you needed to pick. I liked electrical and mechanical both and saw this program called "interdisciplinary" which I discussed with a program advisor. He told me it was a good plan that had a lot of flexibility but also that nobody who degree'd in it had gotten a job.

I signed up for electrical.
 
I liked electrical and mechanical both and saw this program called "interdisciplinary" which I discussed with a program advisor. He told me it was a good plan that had a lot of flexibility but also that nobody who degree'd in it had gotten a job.

Engineering Studies. Voila!
 
I am a big believer in STEM education; however, let me just say, as someone with first-hand knowledge (professor of Physics), that not everyone has the capability to complete a degree and work in a STEM field.
 
And not all STEM careers are high-paying. I recall doing an HR audit of a biotech firm in the Bay Area and was surprised by what I felt were low salaries for brilliant bioscientists with advanced degrees.
 
How much influence do the parents have in influencing their child’s decision on going to college and what major they choose? I would estimate a lot in the go/not-go decision and little in the major decision.

Our kids had no real talent other than their brains so college made sense for them. They picked their major, but we helped them decide by giving them some experiences while in high school. For example, DD was interested in medicine so we found a couple of doc’s she could shadow - 1 surgeon and 1 office practitioner. That really helped her decide what she wanted.
 
^ Depends on how heavy handed the parents choose to be.

I have a "college deal" with all three of my kids and it basically says, among other things, that I won't pay to help them get degrees that don't logically lead to jobs, but I will pay for all the basics for them to get degrees that do logically lead to jobs.

Oldest got a degree in supply chain and IT management and got an excellent job upon graduation.

Middle is going for mechanical engineering and should be fine.

Youngest is going for music education, which is not high paying but does lead to jobs and they can live on the income.

...

Besides being heavy handed (or practical, as I would term it), I also worked with my younger two in high school to help them identify and sort through career options. This hopefully helped them make better college selection decisions (have to have those majors to be considered) and hopefully will help them change their majors less frequently. I would have done the same with my eldest but I didn't know what I was doing as much with him - I guess you learn from the first kid.
 
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