‘The Millionaire Next Door’ is a Myth to Most Millennials

[Koolau]

The two major differences I see in opportunities between now and when I started my c*reer are: Pensions are less likely and one-company-for-c*reer are almost non existent now. I had both pension and one-company. That DID make it easier to do the MND thing. Having said that, staying within one company (most companies) means that your path is only variable within certain limits. "Good" performers get to the next rung faster then "average" performers. BUT there are few if any opportunities for "quantum" leaps.

Under the current paradigm, good performers can leap-frog companies and get to much more lucrative positions faster than staying within one company. Loyalty is no longer particularly valued by empl*yees or empl*yers.

True, it may take some luck to leap-frog, but acquired skills and selling yourself are more important than luck today. The rules ARE different, but I just don't buy that its a lot more difficult to become MND today. As always, YMMV.

 

[ncbill]

No pensions...most private employers happy to show you the door after you turn 50...

I'm getting pretty cynical myself as a Gen X (i.e. "stand by and watch it BURN")

So I'm encouraging my kids to seriously consider spending 20 years in the military to get the pension (they owe several years anyway after having their undergrad paid for by the military)

 

[mpeirce]

Under the current paradigm, good performers can leap-frog companies and get to much more lucrative positions faster than staying within one company. Loyalty is no longer particularly valued by empl*yees or empl*yers.

I changed jobs a lot, but I kept returning to one company a couple of times - I worked there three separate times. Loyalty wasn't really a thing - I left for good reasons and I came back for good reasons. Each time they welcomed me back.

Obviously I didn't burn any bridges.

 

[Markola]

I changed jobs a lot, but I kept returning to one company a couple of times - I worked there three separate times. Loyalty wasn't really a thing - I left for good reasons and I came back for good reasons. Each time they welcomed me back.



Obviously I didn't burn any bridges.

+1,000. Loyalty to organization!!!! LOL. What a quaint concept. Loyalty has no place clouding up what is entirely a business relationship: At-will employers who offer no pension, no contract, no union, shove all retirement and, increasingly, health care responsibilities onto workers who get cost of living adjustments if they are lucky. When I’ve paid my dues doing a good job for 3-5 years leading to my next, better opportunity, the screen door doesn’t hit me on the way out.

 

[gtweath]

I haven't read every post here, but I just wish the world and media would stop chopping us all up into blocks and pitting us against each other. This is a bad trend that is growing steam and really leads to nothing good.

^^^this exactly

 

[MarieIG]

I am quite familiar with someone who emigrated to this county at age 19 with $400 in his pockets to go to college, barely spoke the language, had to work washing dishes for money to eat/rent a room and pay for school, dropped out of school to get married - drove a truck AND worked construction jobs, had six kiddos, and along the way obtained and worked his tail off at a (good) blue collar job. His retirement liquid assets alone . . .

Of course he had the good luck to marry a perfectly charming spouse, who eventually (rather late) started on her own career which allowed certain perks for those aforementioned kiddos, which otherwise they would have probably had to do without.

 

[LRDave]

I guess I find it astonishing/sad that so few of us are willing to admit that at least a part of our good fortune is a result of timing and luck. I know that despite working hard, lbym, and doing our best it could have ended up differently.

It is the height of hubris to attribute ALL the good things that have happened to our generation to our "hard work". Seriously - elbows must hurt all the time for all the back-patting we do to ourselves....

ExFlyboy5 below has the ratio correct, I believe - about 80% circumstances beyond our control and 20% the effort of the individual.

 

[Gumby]

I am quite familiar with someone who emigrated to this county at age 19 with $400 in his pockets to go to college, barely spoke the language, had to work washing dishes for money to eat/rent a room and pay for school, dropped out of school to get married - drove a truck AND worked construction jobs, had six kiddos, and along the way obtained and worked his tail off at a (good) blue collar job. His retirement liquid assets alone . . .

Of course he had the good luck to marry a perfectly charming spouse, who eventually (rather late) started on her own career which allowed certain perks for those aforementioned kiddos, which otherwise they would have probably had to do without.

Congratulations and best wishes to you both. Your family is truly the American success story. I know there are many more like you, but that, sadly, doesn't make the news.

 

[dirtbiker]

+1,000. Loyalty to organization!!!! LOL. What a quaint concept. Loyalty has no place clouding up what is entirely a business relationship: At-will employers who offer no pension, no contract, no union, shove all retirement and, increasingly, health care responsibilities onto workers who get cost of living adjustments if they are lucky. When I’ve paid my dues doing a good job for 3-5 years leading to my next, better opportunity, the screen door doesn’t hit me on the way out.

But one issue with switching companies is you often lose out on a year or two of employee 401K matching when you switch to a new compnay and vesting schedules can take some of that back too. Not to say you shouldn't take better opportunities when they come up, but that is a downside.

 

[Koolau]

It is the height of hubris to attribute ALL the good things that have happened to our generation to our "hard work". Seriously - elbows must hurt all the time for all the back-patting we do to ourselves....

ExFlyboy5 below has the ratio correct, I believe - about 80% circumstances beyond our control and 20% the effort of the individual.

I have no idea what the correct ratio is. Certainly, the ratio is different for each of us. Looking back on the time I graduated university and was ready to find full time w*rk, I was 1A draft status (first to be called.) In the luck department, my birthday was drawn late and so I had a high draft number (unlikely to be drafted.) This all happened shortly after graduation and achieving my "real j*b).

Folks today (and in the recent past) don't understand what it was like being under the "threat" of being drafted. Being drafted was a virtual ticket to VN. It colored almost every aspect of life at the time.

I recall planning a quick escape after my last classes of my 3rd year (for a brief "vacation.") I was going to drive to the INDY 500 race and blow off some steam before beginning my 50 hour per week summer j*b to pay for my next (last) year of university. A big announcement (perhaps by DoD or whomever did such things) came out, requiring everyone who wanted to keep their 2S draft status (student deferral) to take an "achievement" test. It was scheduled on one day - no make up. If you didn't take (and pass) the test, you lost your 2S and became 1A on the spot. The test was scheduled for memorial day (yes, the holiday, yes, the traditional day of the INDY 500.) I sat in a 4000 seat auditorium with 2000 other 21 +/- year olds and took a (IIRC) 6 hour test. Apparently I passed as I maintained my 2S deferral until graduation.

Several months later, I and hundreds of other of these same guys boarded busses at the local draft board and traveled to the inspection station for our draft physicals (Watch Arlo Guthrie's "ALICE'S RESTAURANT" if you don't know what a draft physical is like - that movie is pretty accurate although I never saw the "Group W" bench.) Most of us passed including every guy I knew that went that day. You could almost feel the noose tightening as we returned to finish the last couple of months of classes before graduating (and becoming 1A.)

Okay, so if I'm making a point here, it is this: For all the "new" and "different" challenges facing the current crop of folks trying to become the MND, being drafted is NOT one of them. The freedom that provides is difficult to put into words if you never experienced the anxiety and pressure the draft placed on young, would-be millionaires of the future. I understand this is just one aspect of the whole generational debate, but it is not trivial (again, especially if you went through it.) Naturally, YMMV.

 

[Scrapr]

^^^^^^^

my draft number was 13. Fortunately it was late enough in the war that there was nobody taken that year. I knew about the student deferment but I never heard about the test. Talk about pressure.

 

[Koolau]

^^^^^^^

my draft number was 13. Fortunately it was late enough in the war that there was nobody taken that year. I knew about the student deferment but I never heard about the test. Talk about pressure.

IIRC it was only a one-time thing. I never heard of a repeat during my senior year - heh, heh, I'd already passed my draft physical by then anyway.

Maddening, in addition to the disruption of routine, there were no published criteria for "passing" the test. The 50-year old impression I have was that the whole thing was done "on the fly" because they needed more "boys."

Now of days, many folks routinely take 5 years to complete what was routinely a 4 year degree back in the day. With a maximum of 4 years of deferment, that was not an option. EVERY class was critical. Failing a class meant a chance of being drafted or the necessity of taking 20 hours the next semester - if you had the next year. I got into a serious problem with ONE class during my last semester, senior year. I JUST passed it. Looking back, I'm convinced I was clinically depressed at the time. I didn't yet know that I would have a high draft number to get me through. I simply can not describe the feelings of that semester. Reiterating my point, such anxiety is not even on today's generation's minds. Of course, YMMV

Oh, and for the 3 of you who have never seen it, this is the short version of Alice's Restaurant scene depicting the draft physical (but primarily, the Group W bench episode.) Follow this video back to see the full Alice's Restaurant Massacree.

 

[Jeffman52]

It is the height of hubris to attribute ALL the good things that have happened to our generation to our "hard work". Seriously - elbows must hurt all the time for all the back-patting we do to ourselves....

ExFlyboy5 below has the ratio correct, I believe - about 80% circumstances beyond our control and 20% the effort of the individual.

While I agree that circumstances can be beyond your control that enable success or failure in our lives and careers, I believe that 20% is VERY heavily weighted. In other words the 80% circumstantial wont matter if you aren't willing to do your part in the other 20%.

 

[razztazz]

While I agree that circumstances can be beyond your control that enable success or failure in our lives and careers, I believe that 20% is VERY heavily weighted. In other words the 80% circumstantial wont matter if you aren't willing to do your part in the other 20%.

Actually it's the other way around. No amount of hard work will compensate for circumstances beyond One's knowledge or control. Chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

 

[dirtbiker]

IIRC it was only a one-time thing. I never heard of a repeat during my senior year - heh, heh, I'd already passed my draft physical by then anyway.

Maddening, in addition to the disruption of routine, there were no published criteria for "passing" the test. The 50-year old impression I have was that the whole thing was done "on the fly" because they needed more "boys."

Now of days, many folks routinely take 5 years to complete what was routinely a 4 year degree back in the day. With a maximum of 4 years of deferment, that was not an option. EVERY class was critical. Failing a class meant a chance of being drafted or the necessity of taking 20 hours the next semester - if you had the next year. I got into a serious problem with ONE class during my last semester, senior year. I JUST passed it. Looking back, I'm convinced I was clinically depressed at the time. I didn't yet know that I would have a high draft number to get me through. I simply can not describe the feelings of that semester. Reiterating my point, such anxiety is not even on today's generation's minds. Of course, YMMV

Oh, and for the 3 of you who have never seen it, this is the short version of Alice's Restaurant scene depicting the draft physical (but primarily, the Group W bench episode.) Follow this video back to see the full Alice's Restaurant Massacree.

Sounds terrible to maybe be drafted.

I took 8 years to finish my undergrad degree due to three overseas deployments, including Iraq and Afghanistan. You think the possibility of going to war causes anxiety? Try getting the notice that you're definitely going to war and still trying to finish up the semester. And it was only worse when I knew I had to do it again, already knowing what it's like over there. We may not have a draft this generation, but millions of us have volunteered to serve and face the anxiety of pending deployments all the time (I leave again in a month for my fourth deployment).

 

[Rianne]

Sounds terrible to maybe be drafted.

I took 8 years to finish my undergrad degree due to three overseas deployments, including Iraq and Afghanistan. You think the possibility of going to war causes anxiety? Try getting the notice that you're definitely going to war and still trying to finish up the semester. And it was only worse when I knew I had to do it again, already knowing what it's like over there. We may not have a draft this generation, but millions of us have volunteered to serve and face the anxiety of pending deployments all the time (I leave again in a month for my fourth deployment).

Thank you for your service sounds trite. I cannot imagine that feeling, that pit in the stomach. My daily life ups and downs seem so trivial to what you just described. I will say "Thank You for your service." That statement goes beyond a mere pleasantry.

 

[Jeffman52]

Actually it's the other way around. No amount of hard work will compensate for circumstances beyond One's knowledge or control. Chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

In the extreme yes. But overall, I respectfully disagree. You can work your A$$ off and overcome many circumstances that are working against you. However, unless you are born with a silver spoon (so to say) if you aren't willing to do the work, and make good choices, your bad decisions will outpace your "good luck" or "good circumstances".

 

[Gumby]

I believe your two views can be harmonized by saying that, in general, hard work is a necessary but not sufficient condition to success.

 

[mpeirce]

But one issue with switching companies is you often lose out on a year or two of employee 401K matching when you switch to a new compnay and vesting schedules can take some of that back too. Not to say you shouldn't take better opportunities when they come up, but that is a downside.

I'm sure this can be a problem for some folks, but I never encountered this. 401(k) vesting was always immediate in my experience.

The problem I did notice was vacation time. You always start back at zero. It just meant I took fewer vacations and saved money (not) doing so ;-)

 

[HI Bill]

I'm sure this can be a problem for some folks, but I never encountered this. 401(k) vesting was always immediate in my experience.

The problem I did notice was vacation time. You always start back at zero. It just meant I took fewer vacations and saved money (not) doing so ;-)

I've been with four environmental/consulting firms. They all had 401(k) vesting schedules of 3 to 5 years. They want to keep you there, once you are hired! But my previous company also had an ESOP. They had a five-year vesting schedule with that one, and the 'free' annual contributions kept me there as long as they had w@rk for me (17 years).

 

[Markola]

But one issue with switching companies is you often lose out on a year or two of employee 401K matching when you switch to a new compnay and vesting schedules can take some of that back too. Not to say you shouldn't take better opportunities when they come up, but that is a downside.

That is true. I’ve had to wait a year to get the 403b match a few times but I’ve mostly left for more salary increase than the match, which then compounds. I think I’m way, way ahead of where I’d be if I’d not made salary leaps to avoid losing a year here and there of retirement match, not that you suggested that.

Also, I’ve had good luck negotiating my grown adult level of vacation each time, as in “Look...I’m pretty used to 20+ vacation days at this point, so I’d really like to start at full vacation.” YMMV depending on lots of factors, I guess.

 

[HI Bill]

I’ve had good luck negotiating my grown adult level of vacation each time, as in “Look...I’m pretty used to 20+ vacation days at this point, so I’d really like to start at full vacation.” YMMV depending on lots of factors, I guess.

I was able to maintain my 160 hours of annual PTO when I switched to my current company. They actually asked me how many vacation hours I earned at the prior company (which they matched), and they even gave me a raise over my prior salary, without me asking!

I've asked for offices, moving expenses (for two cars, with the company standard was for one car for a single person), and a few other things...if they want you, and the requests are reasonable, you're likely to win!

 

[YoungSaver]

Didn't read the article.

I'm also a millennial* and I feel that a lot of young people feel entitled to many modern luxuries and not many want to "play the game". They've just given up or never even started. It's kind of shocking how they just don't care or don't think about the future.

"Housing is expensive". Get roommates. Seriously, #1 issue I see.
"Bay Area ..... ". GTFO of there.
"Job doesn't pay enough". Cut down your expenses. Write down all recurring expenses and look for ways to lower or eliminate them.
"My iphone X is amazing". Stick with the 6S broseph.

Many also want to live in hip and trendy areas. I went through this with two friends. Houses were 100k (about 20%) lower just 3 miles away, still in a good area, but not right in the trendy neighborhood. Literally just throwing money away.

 

[HI Bill]

Many also want to live in hip and trendy areas. I went through this with two friends. Houses were 100k (about 20%) lower just 3 miles away, still in a good area, but not right in the trendy neighborhood. Literally just throwing money away.

Maybe, maybe not. Trendy area home prices may appreciate faster than those less-trendy areas. "Location, location, location." I missed out on a lot of appreciation, buying a cheap $90K condo, when I could have bought a $375 house. I could have made ~$400K in just 5 years, rather than $110K.

 

[Rianne]

Didn't read the article.

I'm also a millennial* and I feel that a lot of young people feel entitled to many modern luxuries and not many want to "play the game". They've just given up or never even started. It's kind of shocking how they just don't care or don't think about the future.

"Housing is expensive". Get roommates. Seriously, #1 issue I see.
"Bay Area ..... ". GTFO of there.
"Job doesn't pay enough". Cut down your expenses. Write down all recurring expenses and look for ways to lower or eliminate them.
"My iphone X is amazing". Stick with the 6S broseph.

Many also want to live in hip and trendy areas. I went through this with two friends. Houses were 100k (about 20%) lower just 3 miles away, still in a good area, but not right in the trendy neighborhood. Literally just throwing money away.

Nice job savingD! You clearly have a plan. My DN, 22 is getting on board. Two years ago...she blew the dough. Now her parents are saying "NO MORE from us." She's learning very quickly.