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Old 09-01-2020, 11:51 AM   #61
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We're raising a 9 year old granddaughter full time and it's permanent. We'll be almost 80 when she graduates high school. And she has a brother we have every other weekend, and he's being raised by his father--mostly.

So we have to be prepared to take care of these kids financially and otherwise. Whatever their mother would have inherited is slated to go to them in trust.

Unfortunately, this is not an uncommon situation and we're okay with it.
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Old 09-01-2020, 11:54 AM   #62
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@Oldshooter
Thanks for the community foundation link. There is one in my area and I do like the idea of keeping it local and being able to see the results. ...
Please report back after visiting. I think these are small organizations (mine has four staff) so that means that the "personality" of the organizations might vary a lot. Hence my curiosity re your experience.
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Old 09-01-2020, 12:44 PM   #63
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I just checked my WR for the past 6 months. With the market run-up and my reduced spending due to Covid restrictions, I'm at 0.63%. Dang, need to get busy spending!
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Old 09-03-2020, 04:15 PM   #64
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So, I have no kids, and all my siblings are doing well .. essentially, I'm fine with having $0.00 balance on my nest egg the day I croak and leave the physical universe.



I know many people who have kids are trying to preserve their capital and say 2.5% or 3.00% is the safe withdrawal rate now, so they can leave millions of dollars to their kids and relatives. Well, I don't need to do that .. should I keep my projection at 4% withdrawal ??



Just wanted to hear from people who are like me - no plan to leave their nest egg to anybody .. and absolutely nobody.


I have a bunch of kids and relatives. My goal is to die with a zero balance. My kids have my genes. They will make wealth too.
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Old 09-03-2020, 07:47 PM   #65
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Hmm, I might be the odd one out, I have no trouble spending my money on what ever I want, and it makes me happy. I was never very frugal, just realistic. I have 2 step kids & siblings all who are money clueless so leaving anything to them is a waste. Only been retired 14months, but that included severance pay the whole time plus pension. This was the first month just on pensions and DW SS. I’ll see after a year of spending whatever I want, what my rate ends up. I expect it to be a bit higher than 4% with a $180k chunk put aside for use as SS replacement until I plan to file for SS in 6 years, (69) so I have room for Roth conversions.
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Old 09-03-2020, 08:14 PM   #66
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I have 2 step kids too. They will probably make out real good even though I'm planning on leaving them nothing.
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Old 09-04-2020, 04:51 AM   #67
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Just wanted to hear from people who are like me - no plan to leave their nest egg to anybody .. and absolutely nobody.
That's me, no legacy needs at all. There will be some left for charity, most likely. After a couple years of reading and planning, I have given myself "permssion" to spend up to 6-7% of remaining portfolio balance annually for the next 8 years. I plan to transition to relying mostly on SS and pension starting at age 70 (pension is delay-able until age 72). At age 72, SS + pension will keep me from starving even if I screw the rest up.

I sort of doubt my spending will average 6% though. I believe in the "Bernicke's Reality Retirement Plan" with declining spending desires as I age. Spending a bit more early is important to me. I retire in 27 days . I also am getting a severance/deferred comp. package that pays about my first 2 years spending, so withdrawal from existing portfolio shouldn't start for ~2 years.

If I was younger (I'm 62 in Dec) and attempting FIRE, I'd probably keep below 4% WR. As it is, I sort of have worked too long and accumulated more than needed. That is caused in part by the lucky unforeseen package offer that is juicing up my retirement numbers that I wouldn't have gotten without staying this long. Catch 22
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Keeping some
Old 09-04-2020, 04:02 PM   #68
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Keeping some

Just an FYI,
Long term medical costs can be a bit staggering. DW’s brother has Alzheimer’s his son is adding 20K a month to augment a good medical plan. Full time live in care giver, etc.

Hope none of us ever has to experience this. But keeping money available can make life for you better even in a really lousy situation.

Enjoy living!
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Old 09-04-2020, 04:22 PM   #69
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No kids or relatives who need support. I do need to make sure my money lasts, though - I don't have the kind of wealth that is beyond the need for planning and care. My initial years of retirement ended up giving me more money than I had when I was saving for retirement, so for now I'm still enjoying that slightly greater income. My FA has said it's possible I could withdraw more, but I don't want to start worrying. Also, I want mylong term and end-of-life care to be of good quality, and I have endeavored to plan for that with a LTC policy and enough other sources of income so that my nieces and I will be able to arrange that.

I doubt much will be left over, and what there is, some will go to family and some to charitable causes - it's been nice to discover the little perks that "legacy" members of organizations get!
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Withdrawals based on arithmetic....
Old 09-04-2020, 06:20 PM   #70
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Withdrawals based on arithmetic....

DW and I expect our last check to bounce. We have advised 3 sons not to expect anything...and each of them are doing very well financially.

The arithmetic we use:
1. Everything in Today's dollars, it is much easier to understand
2. Plan investment ROI as 3% over inflation
3. Plan to live to age 105

Use spreadsheet "what if" feature to determine how much we CAN spend each year to run out of money at age 105. With SSA benefits at age 70, and rental income, we can meet our very basic needs. The IRA withdrawals have given us the opportunity to do a World Cruise, spend 6 weeks on Africa Safaris, and we still needed to spend more money, so we bought another home in Hilton Head...this will be our "forever" home with an elevator to help us as we age......and we still do not have a detailed plan to spend it all...but recalculating each year, and doing Roth conversions help us minimize our payments to the government.

We have given all grandchildren their birthday and Christmas gifts, from birth to age 18, as low cost basis stock a few years ago to avoid having to pay capital gains ta ourselves. Much more useful than a toy or dress that may last a few months.

Maybe we will replace my 13 year old car...

The 4% rule helped us determine when we could retire, but we no longer refer to that...arithmetic works for us...it may not be the right approach for others.
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Old 09-04-2020, 10:56 PM   #71
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It is a problem. We have kids but I never considered leaving my kids anything. Their mother (my ex-wife #2) is far richer than I am and is a high powered corporate attorney who absconded with all our assets which she hid from me in overseas accounts. Getting divorced from a lesbian lawyer is not an easy task and is very expensive. She had access to free attorneys from her sisterhood so I tossed in the towel and let her keep everything except my pensions. Our divorce was because of her frequent lesbian relationships and her wanting to move a girlfriend into the bedroom and me into the basement. So, an intolerable problem.

My third wife and I have over a million in cash and equities we have never touched spread over several IRA's and brokerage accounts. I also mined several Bitcoins as a hobby back when you could do it at home and haven't touched them either. Our problem, if you can call it that, is our pensions are already about 50% higher than our living expenses. My wife is 5 years older and had to start the mandatory withdrawals from her IRA's and I am coming up on it soon. But, that is really just moving it into a brokerage account and not an actual withdrawal.

My kids who are not especially friendly to me are my least concern. They were in their young teens and were poisoned by my ex so haven't ever actually recovered from that. We left the US and live in Hungary which makes seeing them problematic and I have zero desire to visit the US. My son; however, emigrated to Israel so is only a 2 hour flight away so I do see him regularly at least up until this year. We have gotten closer but it is still touchy and both feel I am over-critical of their lifestyle and career choices. Anyway, they are not a part of my planning scenario. My wife had two children but they both died tragically and her relatives are in the oligarch class in Russia.

Our problem is my military pension comes to our Hungarian bank and because of FATCA rules we must keep the balances below $10K or face onerous reporting requirements, which if you fail to do, can result in a 50% loss of all assets. This is my benevolent government serving me as a citizen. So, we end up moving money around between accounts and spending down the overseas account as much as possible. We have shifted to using Transferwise which has saved us quite a bit in fees.

So, not being able to travel this year and probably next year as well, we have been spending a lot on other items. I already sent to both kids our Coronavirus stimulant money so I think my role as a parent is met more or less. They are now 30 and 28 so IMHO are on their own. I left home at 17 myself and never returned except to visit and never got anything from any relatives ever. So, I believe in individual accomplishments hence my criticisms of them as they are always broke and working shitty low paying jobs. All advice has been ignored so I have no guilt over how they have ended up. They probably will inherit a lot but it is not my plan for them to do so. It is inconceivable for me to imagine expecting anything from a parent after the age of 18. I have a PhD, 2 Master's, a BS and an AS all paid for by me as well as a Commercial/Instrument Pilot license and an ICC (International Certificate of Competence) for yachting. It never even occurred to me to seek financial help from parents. In fact, I supported my mother for the last 25 years of her live and she lived in our house up until last year when we were forced to send her to a facility in the US as Hungarian elderly care is heavily dependent on speaking Hungarian which she didn't learn. She died peacefully this June at the age of 95. My father died back in 2001 and while he left a large fortune his second family absconded with it all. My lawyer brother (who is not a good lawyer) crewed up our part badly as he is a kind and trusting man but they were awful people. In fact they cheated each other a great deal so even my half brother and half sister were equally cheated by their step sisters.

Life is interesting.
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Old 09-04-2020, 11:01 PM   #72
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I retired about 8 years ago. The balance is higher now than it was then, by a nice margin. We’ve helped kids with down payments on homes, bought them reliable cars, paid for their schooling, etc. We also take them on vacations from time to time, including their spouses and kids. We have noticed over the years, certain fiscal irresponsibility from both of them. So while we’ve tried to help them get ahead by gifting them enough for a 35% down payment on heir homes, they keep shooting themselves in the foot with poor but not serious financial decisions. A few years back, I mentioned to my wife that I’d like to be able to leave each of them about a million, if we could, to help with their retirements. However, subsequently, they’ve taken the little money they have and spent it rather unwisely. So we’ve decided that rather than leave them a pile of cash, we want to leave them with experiences and memories, while we are alive, and try to unwind the portfolio a bit as we age. The SWR percentage that you use will be influenced by legacy (or not) issues, as well as your current age. So the answer for a 72 year old will be different than the answer for a 58 year old, and by your own health and medical record, and to an extent, family history. I have 84 year old parents, who seem like they’ve still got some years ahead of them, so I expect, currently, to need to fund myself until age 90ish, maybe longer. DW’s dad passed at 69, and her mom at 82. She has had a few medical issues and doesn’t expect to be long lived, but then again, she lives more healthfully than her folks ever did. Anyway, most years so far, for us, since we began at age 51, have been more on the order of 2.25 on the low end to 3% on the very high end (new car year).
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Old 09-05-2020, 01:09 AM   #73
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Rambler - My kids are the same. They make very poor financial choices and my son before moving to Israel was addicted to alcohol and Shisha. My fear for him is he gets too much money he will go back to his old ways. He has been sober and working for 3 years now without problems but I know the reality is alcoholics only very rarely completely recover and the first serious pressure on them they revert fast. In my military career I dealt with hundreds of cases of substance abuse and in only 1 single case did that person recover completely and that was through religion. So, I am supportive but not optimistic.

My daughter more or less despises me after the divorce as I was for some reason blamed for the entire divorce. Maybe someday she will see my side of it but it doesn't look that way. She calls her mother daily at a minimum and me maybe twice a year. So, I feel no guilt at leaving her nothing. She has become a flaming liberal and I cannot relate to her at all now. So, for me it best to leave things alone. What is ironic is her mother will leave everything to some gay cause or her multiple lesbian partners and nothing for the children. Maybe my daughter doesn't care about it.
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Old 09-05-2020, 06:25 AM   #74
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Our problem is my military pension comes to our Hungarian bank and because of FATCA rules we must keep the balances below $10K or face onerous reporting requirements, which if you fail to do, can result in a 50% loss of all assets. This is my benevolent government serving me as a citizen. So, we end up moving money around between accounts and spending down the overseas account as much as possible. We have shifted to using Transferwise which has saved us quite a bit in fees.
.
there’s an awful lot in your message and I wouldn’t dream of stepping into any of the personal stuff, but just a note that FACTA requirements are different from what you quote and are based on aggregate values not the value in any one account (see link https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corpo...r-us-taxpayers). FBAR is here https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small...-accounts-fbar But also - having filed FACTA and FBAR reports for many years - I should say that these are the easiest forms the IRS has and not worth trying to dodge - as long as all the money in the accounts has a good provenance and you declare the interest etc
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Old 09-05-2020, 07:50 AM   #75
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Having spent my career in a slice of the do-gooder sector I am very skeptical about third party charity. I suspect most of it is naive at best, corrupt at worst, likely to get redirected to progressive regressive causes, and highly unlikely to generate measurable positive outcomes.

I think it’s more effectively moral to be excessively generous with tipping and overpaying the working poor in your daily life, generous with commercial arrangements disputes when things go wrong through no fault.

I think estates should follow traditional lineage when their are children, even if estranged, but with trust restrictions if there are concerns, to avoid adding additional psychic harm.

Cutting out lineage children and others actually in your life feels like something dark to me.

Strikes me odd the lack of concern for a 10 year bear market or change of direction in history when assessing relative benefit of an annuity for middle income retirees.

Getting more pleasure from a spreadsheet balance than life experience may be problematic. I think you are here to have shared life experiences and you may be scolded for wasting opportunities at your life review if you accept NDE research. It is an explicit violation of gospel guidance.
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Old 09-05-2020, 09:03 AM   #76
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Rambler - My kids are the same. They make very poor financial choices and my son before moving to Israel was addicted to alcohol and Shisha. My fear for him is he gets too much money he will go back to his old ways. He has been sober and working for 3 years now without problems but I know the reality is alcoholics only very rarely completely recover and the first serious pressure on them they revert fast. In my military career I dealt with hundreds of cases of substance abuse and in only 1 single case did that person recover completely and that was through religion. So, I am supportive but not optimistic.

My daughter more or less despises me after the divorce as I was for some reason blamed for the entire divorce. Maybe someday she will see my side of it but it doesn't look that way. She calls her mother daily at a minimum and me maybe twice a year. So, I feel no guilt at leaving her nothing. She has become a flaming liberal and I cannot relate to her at all now. So, for me it best to leave things alone. What is ironic is her mother will leave everything to some gay cause or her multiple lesbian partners and nothing for the children. Maybe my daughter doesn't care about it.
For the son, some young people, especially high functioning STEM ‘ers, are finding a novel version of “spiritual“ anti-religion via Thomas Warren Campbell’s budding Simulationist international movement. Clean living is a fundamental finding of his quantum science based research.

For the daughter, I would focus on her interests and dreams and construct a scenario that enables you to spend some time together.

Depending on the scale of your money....something imaginative and irresistible for her that is presented as her doing a favour for you.
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Old 09-05-2020, 09:31 PM   #77
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You sound like Suzie Ormon "Make sure the last check you write bounces" Actually you will distribute your assets to someone. You can either draw up a will or die intestate in which case the state and folks whom you might not rather inherit your assets will divide them up. Find a good charity that shares something that your passionate about. An accountant and a tax attorney can name it in your will and unlike individuals, they won't owe taxes except what you may owe from a retirement account. I don't have children and my kin doesn't need money but I have a charity that provides services to kids who do need help. Hope this helps
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Old 09-05-2020, 11:16 PM   #78
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Dd852 - Part of the problem we have is having to report specifically every single day in the year that your aggregate accounts exceeded $10K. I never know these dates and our Hungarian bank doesn't have the ability to figure it out without a long bureaucratic hassle. This is what I mean by onerous. So, we take careful steps to never go over the $10K rule so avoid the process. The other smaller issues arise when transferring funds (over $5k) from US accounts to overseas accounts which require a request to the FINCEN (FBI) for clearance. Normally, the transferring bank does this but it is up to the taxpayer to make certain it is done. There is also the minor requirement to report the ending balance on 31 December as well as having to check the silly box on the 1040 which states you have overseas accounts. Failure to do any of these get you into hot water. The problem is our collective pensions are more than $10k a month and all are government pensions yet our government still examines everything as if we are potential criminals and is never very willing to be friendly about these issues. I have only had to be examined once since moving overseas and it was a draconian experience all about not having checked the box and our 1040 was prepared by a US accounting firm who just simply forgot to check the box as they were in Maryland and we were here in Hungary so it was something they probably hadn't ever had to do before. This triggered an audit which we of course passed but was not a pleasant experience as we live 2 hours from Budapest where the US Embassy is located and it required several trips. We also had several large transfers actually get held up by the FBI over why we wanted to transfer the money. One was for a car purchase and the other for my yacht purchase. I mentioned all of that as it is a pain in the butt for us living overseas and most Americans are blissfully unaware of any of this.

I will also add we had to scramble to find a US bank that would actually service us living overseas. We were cancelled with short notice by Bank of America (we had Platinum accounts with a cash aggregate of over $350k in three accounts. I received a letter from them 1 day before they closed our accounts. Mail from the US can take months as I just received my letter about receiving the COVID relief payment soon so that took 4 months to get here. It seems large banks such as BoA do not want to have accounts with Americans who reside permanently overseas as it puts a lot of extra reporting requirements on them. I was able to find a US Credit Union that has branches on the US military bases in Italy and was able to open an account over the phone and get the money wire transferred the same day. It was a scramble to get done and the services at the Credit Union not as good as we had at BoA. Then you have the issue of overseas banks not wanting to have US customers and the EU privacy laws so we have to go to our bank every year and sign a declaration that we give permission for them to report on us to the IRS. Many overseas banks refuse to have US citizens because of these onerous reporting requirements. Ours is okay so far but is based in the Netherlands but has branches around Europe. We were stockpiling US dollars which we keep in a safe for any time the excess gets close to $10k and would order money from our European bank. That used to be easy but now that is also being examined closely and I can only do this through a single branch located about 50 miles away and my local branch is no longer permitted to order US dollars.

These are just some of the things we have to deal with routinely that most Americans are unaware of.
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Old 09-05-2020, 11:36 PM   #79
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Kroeran - Yes, my son is doing okay. My fear is if he inherits too much he will go on a hooker and blow tour of Europe. He is doing fine but COVID has him, like so many young people, currently unemployed. The same for my daughter in NYC. She was doing videos for Cheddar and was laid off and now fired. Both kids have degrees his in history and hers in Film Arts. What I meant about choices and advice they ignored.

She is in NYC and I am in Hungary. Not too much opportunity to get together. I have brought her here twice both tragedies as she is a drama queen and extremely high maintenance. She brought along boyfriends who had to absorb the pain but apparently even my expression when she throws a tantrum is "too critical". I will add she is an aspiring actress and somewhat beautiful. She considers herself a comedian but I do not find her funny at all. Politically she is now one of those AOC type of progressives and I am a realist who is cynical about American politics and US foreign policy. Anyway, she is reactionst to anything I have to say and firmly committed to her ideals which I see as ridiculous. So, not too much in common. My wife is a world renowned photographer who has received many awards for her work and is an excellent portrait photographer dut she specializes in Still Life and landscapes but also does people. During her last visit in 2018 my daughter wanted to get a new headshot and my wife posed her and was moving her hair when my daughter starts screaming about don't touch me and had a melt down. This was after 2 hours of preening. Her boyfriend was in a state trying to calm her down so it all ended in tragedy without any photos. So, good luck to her as an actress if she can't have anyone touch her.

I am actually close to my son and we speak often. I visit him in Israel at least once a year up until this year for obvious reasons. My wife also has a sister and her son and family there and I have a niece and her 6 kids there as well so it is a somewhat complicated chore to go there. My son is in Beer Sheva but the rest are in Jerusalem. It is easier to bring him here but that is usually complicated with girlfriends and their assorted issues (twice similar experiences to my daughter which makes me think this is some new phenomena in younger people today). His last girlfriend had self prescribed dietary issues because of her "immune" problems. My PhD is Immunology and I am a vaccinologist by training so it is tough to sit there being lectured on immunology by someone who is loud, aggressive, and completely wrong. So, the last time I told him no girlfriends. With my daughter boyfriends are a requirement as she needs a handler.
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Old 09-06-2020, 05:37 AM   #80
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You sound like Suzie Ormon "Make sure the last check you write bounces" Actually you will distribute your assets to someone. ...
The concept of "last check bounces" is for planning purposes. Some people plan to give their heirs/charities $1 million...which is also for planning purposes. We believe that giving with a warm hand is better than giving with a cold hand, therefore our giving it built into our annual budgets...but we still plan for that last check to bounce.
There is no expiration date printed on our bodies, so if we do not make it to the date we are planning, then wills/trusts come into play. The concept of "last check bounces" is somewhat selfish, in that you plan to spend your retirement funds on YOU first...similar to the days when we were w*rking, we would pay ourselves first by putting away money for our retirement.
We also believe that telling your children that you will give them $1 million when you pass might put a target on your back...(that is supposed to be funny)
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