$$$ to be safe?

Think of income, not net worth. If your investments are returning 7% and have been for decades (examples could be rental real estate, or 30 year T-bonds purchased in the late 90's), you will need much less than someone who is counting on 3-4%.

Then, set aside your liquid emergency fund ($100k might be enough, especially if you have long term care insurance).
 
Being in a CCRC makes a big difference and, as Rodi said, so does the additional cost (of any) of skilled nursing care if you need it. My grandpa was in a CCRC and, although the nursing home was part of the deal, stubbornly insisted on staying in his apartment with 24/7 home health care aides at $10K/month (this was maybe 10 years ago) till he pretty much ran out of money and HAD to check into the nursing home section.

I'd go with $1 million depending on other sources of income such as SS and pensions. So much depends on your living circumstances. I'm hoping to stay in my house for many years and eventually lawn-mowing and housecleaning will be too much for me and I'll hire it out. There are probably a few more dental implants in my future and likely some hearing aids- happens to all of us. I really liked the home health care agency I used in DH's last days but they were $22/hour. They were able to parcel out prescriptions but did no other nursing-type care, and were willing to clean and prepare meals, although I mostly wanted them to keep DH company and make sure he didn't fall while I was out of the house. That could add up. In Dh's case it wasn't tax-deductible, either.
 
To all... thanks for the responses. Certainly more varied than I would have expected.

Believe it or not, I was not asking for advice. I know where I stand, and am comfortable our financial position.

The thought behind the post, was to move you (or someone else :) ) to think in terms of what your outlook might be, later on in life... when your interests and abilities have changed. The reason the house was excluded, is that most here don't like count it as an asset for planning purposes.

As to planning (long term... 10 to 30 years) my theory is to plan in terms of today, so trying to pad one's assets to account for inflation is virtually impossible. The billion dollar estimate might not be adequate in the case of infinite inflation. I've just assumed parallel asset growth. When we first retired, our own projections for 30 year needs w/o inflation (1989 to today) leave us almost exactly on plan.

So... in terms of real dollars, we've been very surprised that since age 75, with the exception of two low value 2nd homes which we'll divest from this year, our actual cost of living has dropped from about 50K to well under 30K.
The greatest cost differences come from auto expense, travel expense, entertainment, eating out, buying "for the house", clothing and utilities, maintenance and upkeep (for our other "homes"). I think that the posts above that discussed older relatives who are living on markedy lower, ongoing incomes, is closer to our situation. The Social security base is a godsend. While much lower than what it would be today, taking SS at age 62 was a good deal for us, since from age 53 to 62 we were burning through cash.

As a comment to newer members who may not have been exposed to the idea of using an "owned house" to use medicaid to protect a surviving spouse, you need to explore this as an option to renting. It might change some of your plans.

Lower costs during the later years, made me look back, a change my original thoughts about retiring (detail in some other posts)... to include retirement as a two phase process, with the understanding that actual, later year expenses would be less. We are not investment savvy, as most of our assets are in IBonds. Nonetheless, those dollars are almost exactly where they were more than ten years ago.

Thanks again for a fun exercise. :flowers:
 
20x the annual essential expenses in investable assets. Add on SSI income, and you should be in good standings for your retirement.
 
20x the annual essential expenses in investable assets. . Add on SSI income, and you should be in good standings for your retirement.
At age 80? I think that's more than many would see as sufficient at age 60 with SS to come - but then we have posters who have accumulated many millions wondering if they have enough to retire...
 
At age 80? I think that's more than many would see as sufficient at age 60 with SS to come - but then we have posters who have accumulated many millions wondering if they have enough to retire...

Here's the thing. The OP has just the home and SS. Say he goes into a nursing home and they can "shield" the home from MEdicaid thru an irrevocable trust or by other legal means. Is the spouse still going to be able to live there? MEdicaid will use his SS to help pay the cost of the nursing home. SSI is exempt but not regular SS benefits. MAybe the wife does not have her own SS? Now how does she pay the bills for the home...taxes, insurance, maintenance, etc.

Also, is there a desire to leave a legacy? Even a million dollars will quickly evaporate if both spouses need LTC at the same time. It's not so cut and dry.
 
I know it was a sorta "jokey post"

I never want to feel safe. I want to have fun!

If I wanted to feel "safe" I wouldn't own 4 motorcycles.
my dad high-sided my bilke on an overly aggressive turn. 6 surgeries later they had his foot back on his ankle.

This was two summers ago. He's finally retiring this month. If near death motorcycle accident doesnt force it...who knows what will. He's already 65.
 
I suppose you mean safe from running out of money. You know a good number of people are bankrupted by medical expenses. They can spring up from nowhere. 'Safe' kinda means to me like I don't appreciate how quickly it all could change. No ill never feel that kind of safe ... but I am definitely ready to take the chance and retire. Maybe the way I feel about safe is because I was poorer then a church mouse growing up?

I think I'll just focus on a good day that I had today. Went to work, had a good lunch and I have a warm cup of coffee sitting next to me along with with my adoring dog. I'll guess I'll take it one day at a time - safe? Really? Never? Happy yes, content yes, but most of blessed.
 
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I don't recall the exact details, but imoldernu and his wife reside in a CCRC, which helps.

If you haven't read this all-time great thread that he started, it is worth the time: http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/sharing-23-years-of-frugal-retirement-62251.html (post 282 in that thread discusses the CCRC community)

We don't have all that information in the OP's OP, though :LOL:

Just for fun... You are my age... 80.
You own your home, value $200K.
You don't do much traveling or live high.
You're married, and both in good health.
No extraordinary other ongoing obligations
No pension or other income stream other than Social Security.

How many dollars of net worth (excluding home) would make you feel safe?

So based on this, there is no existing nest egg, continuing care community, LTI, whatever--just a question that given you are 80 years old, are married, have $200K in your paid for home, etc., etc. OP isn't asking for what new worth we think he should have beyond what he's stated, but what WE would feel safe having.
 
Here's the thing. The OP has just the home and SS. Say he goes into a nursing home and they can "shield" the home from MEdicaid thru an irrevocable trust or by other legal means. Is the spouse still going to be able to live there? MEdicaid will use his SS to help pay the cost of the nursing home. SSI is exempt but not regular SS benefits. MAybe the wife does not have her own SS? Now how does she pay the bills for the home...taxes, insurance, maintenance, etc.

Also, is there a desire to leave a legacy? Even a million dollars will quickly evaporate if both spouses need LTC at the same time. It's not so cut and dry.

Some detail on the shielding of the healthy spouse... here post #34.

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/sharing-23-years-of-frugal-retirement-62251.html#post1214332
.....................................................

Thanks bestwifeever... I think that got lost in translation ;)
 
250k earning 3% should get you to 93 with 23k a yr to spend.
(On top of SS)
Just don't live past 93. Plan to live to 100? Cut back a bit. :)
(Knowing how much your SS is would be good to know)

See below link
Retirement Spending Calculator

Things to consider: No car or auto insurance in the future.
Shopping? Food is about it.
Entertainment? Dr. visits & TV & walking. (Buying and selling on ebay)


My dad is 83. In great shape. (Like a 60 yr old)
But only spends about $1500 - $2000 a month.
Could spend much more a month. But doesn't.
No debt, $1500 prop tax etc.......
Lives on a small SS $600 payment and CD interest.
Its all how you set your self up. Not that I could do it.
But know a lot of folks who do.
 
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At age 80? I would feel comfortable with just SS. Maybe an extra $100,000. I think there is less than a 50-50 chance of even living to that age for me. If I still have multiple hundreds of thousands left then I worked longer than I needed to.

+1. If I needed more money, I could sell the house.
 
At age 80? I think that's more than many would see as sufficient at age 60 with SS to come - but then we have posters who have accumulated many millions wondering if they have enough to retire...

OOPS, I missed the age 80 :facepalm: In that case 7-10x the expenses.
 
OOPS, I missed the age 80 :facepalm: In that case 7-10x the expenses.

Yeah, at 80 I'd be expecting that my expenses would be the lion's share of my total spending. I'd also expect that SS would cover a significant portion of those on it's own. As such, I imagine 7x annual expenses would be more than enough to cover any big ticket items and "whimsical spending" I decided to do.
 
One thing one need to adjust for is this is SS for a couple. When one dies, it will be half or something like that, so there's got to have money come from somewhere to make up the difference.
 
My Mom belonged to 3 senior groups that met weekly to have lunch and hear a guest speaker. Most events were free or only a small donation. She liked to spend $ more then I do but as she aged that changed. She did not really need or want anything.
 
:):):)
Just for fun... You are my age... 80.
You own your home, value $200K.
You don't do much traveling or live high.
You're married, and both in good health.
No extraordinary other ongoing obligations
No pension or other income stream other than Social Security.

How many dollars of net worth (excluding home) would make you feel safe?

No right or wrong answer. Just curious.

:cool:

I "suspect" that might be pretty close to defining the DW and myself when I'm ~80. I hope to still be married (and to the same women :)) and we will probably have downsized our home/property by then, so 200k value sounds about right. I suspect my travel will be much less than today and I can only hope our health is good (or at least not needing LTC) Our only income stream will probably be SS other than dividends, interest, etc. I don't expect to be living as high (doing all the "stuff" I do today) when I'm 80, but hopefully I'm still able to do the things I enjoy, in moderation.

Sooooo, with all of that said, I think 1 to 1.5 million (not adjusted for inflation) would make me feel pretty comfortable at that point.
 
10 to 15 years back, DW's and my last parent died. To a first approximation, they each had (at one time) amassed a fortune of about $250K - including their houses. Both were on SS. Both died with essentially 0.00. Nursing home facilities wiped both of them out. How it happened that they broke even is one for the ages, so to speak.

In addition to some lengthy, expensive illness, I guess spending our last years in a nursing home is my "nightmare" scenario and what keeps me managing the portfolio - and remaining concerned that it might eventually go down in value instead of continuing to go up.

Two of us in a local facility could cost a quarter million per year - and that might not cover everything. We do have income in addition to our stash, but it wouldn't go far against a $20K/month nursing home bill (for 2). We even have a LTC policy for each of us, but it wouldn't go too far in this scenario.

Imagine what used to be considered a "nice" nest egg (say a $million) and then figure how long that would keep one or two people in a decent facility (with all the extras such as meds, Dr. calls, treatments, etc. etc.) It does give one pause. Of course, chances are good that one or both stays would be relatively short (avg. I believe is in the 2 to 3 year range.) On that basis, many (maybe most) of us here would be okay financially. But a long stay - especially for both could up end the best laid financial plan. YMMV

Now returning you to our cheery subject of $$$ to be safe.:greetings10:
 
Of course, chances are good that one or both stays would be relatively short (avg. I believe is in the 2 to 3 year range.)

According to this, the average stay is (mercifully) far shorter...
 

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Fedup. SS is 2/3 for one. Say, Husband get 20,000 a year, Wife get half of husband 10,000. If wife dies, husband still gets 20,000 or 2/3, If Husband dies, wife gets husbands 20,000, i.e. 2/3. Still a hit, but nos as great as half.
 
"Sooooo, with all of that said, I think 1 to 1.5 million (not adjusted for inflation) would make me feel pretty comfortable at that point."


At 80? How long do you plan to live?
 
A nursing home may cost $100K/year. So, that $1-1.5M will pay for 10 to 15 years. Starting at 80, one still falls short of becoming a centenarian. But, the thought of living 15 years in a nursing home gives me goose bump.

My father-in-law lasted almost 3 years, all paid for by Medicaid. My wife and her siblings took turns to come in every day in the evening to check up on him and to feed him though. And that helped his longevity. His roommates lasted a few months each, and they were all younger in their 70s, while FIL was in his 90s.
 
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The odds say you ain't gonna make it 6 months. That'll only cost 50 grand - :)

I'm not worried and I'm not buying LTC either.

I'll get rehabbed and get out or I'll die there.
 
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