Unable to Scrape by on 250K+ a Year

[donheff]

Just to be clear (to quote a certain president):

There is absolutely no evidence that the Bush tax cuts led to or In any way contributed to the housing meltdown despite what liberals would like to believe.

I missed this one. Which liberal groups blamed tax cuts for the housing fiasco? That seems like the kind of whacko theory the far right might gin up

Edit: nah, can't blame it on the right. Maybe those black helicopter guys? UFOlogists?

 

[Gumby]

I hear the faint squeal of approaching porcine creatures.

 

[Hiredgun]

Just to be clear, I was quoting Donheff:

"In light of the tax cut, and the debt disaster that followed, the only prudent course is to sock away a small fortune to survive the eventual reckoning."

He clearly links the tax cuts to the meltdown. Sorry but that was a housing crisis.

But I do agree with Donheff's personal solution, socking away a small fortune. I disagree that the tax cuts were the cause of the debt. The current administration has added about 3 trillion in debt, more than from all the presidents from Washington to Regan. And most of that "stimulus" spending went to payoff unions and party supporters. Not the shovel ready projects we were promised. That being said, I fully acknowledge that politicians on either side (left or right) are lying, spending scumbags.

 

[REWahoo]

I hear the faint squeal of approaching porcine creatures.

"Here piggy, piggy..."

 

[donheff]

Just to be clear, I was quoting Donheff:

"In light of the tax cut, and the debt disaster that followed, the only prudent course is to sock away a small fortune to survive the eventual reckoning."

He clearly links the tax cuts to the meltdown. Sorry but that was a housing crisis.

But I do agree with Donheff's personal solution, socking away a small fortune. I disagree that the tax cuts were the cause of the debt. The current administration has added about 3 trillion in debt, more than from all the presidents from Washington to Regan. And most of that "stimulus" spending went to payoff unions and party supporters. Not the shovel ready projects we were promised. That being said, I fully acknowledge that politicians on either side (left or right) are lying, spending scumbags.

Just to be clear, donheff is me And I didn't and don't link the housing crisis to the debt disaster. I didn't even mention the housing crisis. The debt disaster that we all bemoan arose because of uncalled for tax cuts coupled with unfunded, uncontrolled spending (wars, medicare prescription programs). The housing crisis triggered the recession which exacerbated the debt situation but I agree that Dems and the GOP jointly set that up.

 

[Nick59]

That suggestion comes up all the time around here but it makes no sense. It is like asking a 65 YO Tea Partier why he doesn't refuse Medicare.

Well, I respectfully disagree. For example, I'm not a believer in unemployment insurance, so on the occasions in life where I was qualified to take it, I did not.

My "fair share" isn't fair if only I pay it. My few dollars by themselves would make no dent in the debt.

That's the "no drop of rain ever accepts responsibility for the flood" defense, which again, I respectfully disagree with. If everyone I heard using that excuse to not do something of value actually did what was valuable instead of claiming it would make no difference, a substantial, valuable difference would have been made.

This is one of the reasons I always enjoyed studying economics -- forget about what people claim to believe and watch their actions -- their actions show in no uncertain terms what they truly believe.

 

[Emeritus]

Your argument about the government misses the point. I grew up poor and maybe the government provided the environment for me to get rich if I worked my ass off, true. But it also offers that opportunity to all and everyone must make their own choices.

.

OFGS Millions of people all over the world work hard. The government in the USA makes it possible for that hard work to pay off. Possible, not even probable but possible.

If you think its possible without a stable government, go to Kabul and strut your stuff. no government there to bother you

 

[Hiredgun]

Okay, the USA does make it possible for you to be successful. I agree and am only referring to people in the USA. Rich and poor in the USA.

I didn't take the discussion to other countries, you did.

And everyone in the USA has the opportunity to better themselves. That's my point. I was raised poor, I chose to better myself. So no, I don't have contempt for poor people, I was one.

But I also don't have sympathy for those who remain poor due to their own poor choices. For example:

2 of my employees have starting salaries around 40K. My wife and I make substantially more than that running the business. In the morning, these 2 employees bring in coffee from Starbucks. At lunch, they always go out and bring containers from Paradise Bakery, California Pizza Kitchen, etc.

By contrast, my wife and I brew coffee at work and bring a brown bag lunch. Around 3 days or so before every paycheck, I hear these employees bitching about how they don't know if they are going to make it to the next paycheck. And one of these employees, I know for a fact, got about a $10,000 increase from her last job when I hired her 4 months ago.

My point is that people make choices, good and bad, and pay for the consequences. Is the U.S. the greatest country on earth for fairness and opportunity, absolutely! But people have to choose whether to take advantage of that opportunity or not to.

I don't have contempt for those that don't take advantage of the benefits of this country but I also don't feel sorry for them. And I am disturbed by the fact that the current Obama Administration wants to take more and more of my hard earned salary to provide benefits for those who choose not to work hard and not to strive for a better life.

Everyone is entitled to their poor choices but I think those choices should have consequences. I feel the same for businesses, ala General Motors. We can see how well that bailout is working.

One Senator put it well recently explaining why consequences are necessary for positive behavior. He said just look at a wedding. Compare the different behavior of the guests when it is an "open bar" versus a "cash bar". I think that says it all. Currently the U.S. is moving toward and "open bar" and I don't think this story ends well.

 

[Hiredgun]

By the way Emeritus, what is your solution for those who are poor due to their own poor choices?

Do you think we should take more and more from those who work hard and just give it to the "poor"?

What do you think is the maximum rate that we should tax those that are successful? It's getting close to 50% when you add everything up.

What would be your limit? 60%, 70%, 100%? Just curious how much you think the government should be allowed to confiscate from you due to your success?

 

[Bikerdude]

OFGS Millions of people all over the world work hard. The government in the USA makes it possible for that hard work to pay off. Possible, not even probable but possible.

Sounds like the chicken & egg question. An argument can be made that the hard work of citizens enables a government to be formed. If either fails to hold up their end, then neither will function properly.

 

[Letj]

What a hoot of a blog.

He is a freaking law professor. I'm a lawyer married to a doctor and I worked to learn the tax code inside out. He buys a house with a $15,000 annual tax bill but still sends his kids to private schools
If you have massive educational debt you have to defer something. Kids or the big house

Sheesh

Don't knock the guy for doing private school. I pay a lot of local taxes too but I send my children to private school. The state of public eduacation is not very good in the US. Even so called excellent public schools do not offer a well rounded classical education in a single sexed environment. If that's important to you as a parent, you have no choice but to choose a private school. I wanted my children to have the same type of education I had grounded in the arts and sciences in a single sex environment and I could not find it in any of the public school in my area. In addition, I was looking for a school that would educate the whole child and sadly the US public education is severely lacking in that respect.

 

[TooFrugal]

Don't knock the guy for doing private school.

No one is knocking private school at all. It is the sum total of his lifestyle choices that are being questioned. With 500K in student debt and a negative net worth, more frugal minded people might defer having 3 kids, the private schools or the million dollar house.

As MichaelB said -

"If they were to ask advice, folks here would immediately recommend a less expensive combination of schools / mortgage / cars. Pay off the student debt as quickly as possible, even if that meant giving up other pleasures."

 

[Gumby]

No one is knocking private school at all. It is the sum total of his lifestyle choices that are being questioned. With 500K in student debt and a negative net worth, more frugal minded people might defer having 3 kids, the private schools or the million dollar house.

Or, as my mother said to me when I was young: "You can have anything you want. You just can't have everything you want." Life always involves tradeoffs, regardless of your income level. Those unwilling to learn this lesson are doomed to unhappiness.

 

[haha]

I don't have contempt for those that don't take advantage of the benefits of this country but I also don't feel sorry for them. And I am disturbed by the fact that the current Obama Administration wants to take more and more of my hard earned salary to provide benefits for those who choose not to work hard and not to strive for a better life.

+1

Beating Buffett » A Tale for Modern Times

 

[ChrisC]

-1

 

[Gumby]