vanguard beneficiary policy stinks

[mathjak107]

I'm getting the feeling some of the posters work for either Fidelity or JPM or some other financial company trying to badmouth Vanguard. We've been with Vanguard for over 30 years. I do not recognize a single one of the complaints on this thread. The customer service is knowledgable, very quick to answer our calls and they return calls quickly. We've had hour long discussions on 3 way lines. Beneficiary questions, Trust questions, how to maneuver the website questions, the list is pretty long over the years. We don't have one complaint. We're always treated with respect as our decisions.

Our statements, tax information, fund information etc are always available. We had concerns about security, they walked us through an extremely secure way to work with them on the phone and online. If we ask for any statement or letter in writing, we get it within days.

remember nothing is ever a problem until it is a problem and lately it has been one problem after another with vanguard . been with fidelity 30 years and so far no problems .

 

[mathjak107]

Good for you that you are fully satisfied with VG. There is no reason you should consider moving your money then. What you see in this thread are individual examples of customers whose experience has been different from yours. I myself was with Vanguard for many, many years and their customer support was never their strongest suit. Acceptable, by and large, but not to notch. I was willing to cut them a good bit of slack, because they always made up for it by running the tightest ship and lowest fees. HOWEVER, the fee advantages have largely been wiped out, compared with Fidelity, Schwab, etc) now for a few years, and so it is harder to justify inferior customer service. Therefore, people leave when they have a bad experience (I did earlier this year). This doesn't mean Vanguard is the crappiest company out there - it is definitely NOT. It is still a very solid choice - just not the top choice any longer.

well said . vanguard told us on monday when we call acats we need us and the rep from jpm on the phone together so we made an appointment with rep and went to the bank . to not have anyone at vanguard to even answer the phone after 1 hour and 16 minutes of hold time is totally unacceptable . especially after we all got together to make the call .

 

[jazz4cash]

I'm getting the feeling some of the posters work for either Fidelity or JPM or some other financial company trying to badmouth Vanguard. We've been with Vanguard for over 30 years. I do not recognize a single one of the complaints on this thread. The customer service is knowledgable, very quick to answer our calls and they return calls quickly. We've had hour long discussions on 3 way lines. Beneficiary questions, Trust questions, how to maneuver the website questions, the list is pretty long over the years. We don't have one complaint. We're always treated with respect as our decisions.

Our statements, tax information, fund information etc are always available. We had concerns about security, they walked us through an extremely secure way to work with them on the phone and online. If we ask for any statement or letter in writing, we get it within days.

Wow!
I love Vanguard and Jack Bogle. They are largely responsible for the huge reduction in fees and popularity of indexing that benefit many investors, not just their customers....but their customer service is not up to par in my opinion. We have accounts at VG and Fido. Using their websites and conducting transactions with both companies, Fido clearly has many advantages for us.

There are many longtime posters on this board that have high credibility, so when they say they are having an issue, I take them at their word even if my experience has been different.

Ya gotta love the loyalty of many VG clients (Bogleheads)!

 

[MichaelB]

Just because Fidelity manages beneficiaries differently, and more conveniently, does not make it a superior option. Anyone doing business with them for a couple of decades will surely recall the past issues they've had with legal and business ethics, especially surrounding how they handle trading.

I think all brokers, mutual fund companies, and other financial custodians have strengths and weaknesses. If I had to choose only one it would be Vanguard, because their compliance has never been in question, and it is a mutual business, run for the benefit of the fund holders, not owners.

 

[JoeWras]

I appreciate mathjak is frustrated, but it seems like mj can't get one single break from VG. Surprising.

When I did a transfer which required all parties on the phone, it was painless and everyone cooperated just fine.

 

[pb4uski]

Just because Fidelity manages beneficiaries differently, and more conveniently, does not make it a superior option. Anyone doing business with them for a couple of decades will surely recall the past issues they've had with legal and business ethics, especially surrounding how they handle trading.

I think all brokers, mutual fund companies, and other financial custodians have strengths and weaknesses. If I had to choose only one it would be Vanguard, because their compliance has never been in question, and it is a mutual business, run for the benefit of the fund holders, not owners.

+1 While Vanguard has it warts, and I have had occasional service issues with them, I like their mutual form and untarnished history.

I appreciate mathjak is frustrated, but it seems like mj can't get one single break from VG. Surprising.

When I did a transfer which required all parties on the phone, it was painless and everyone cooperated just fine.

I have never waited anywhere near as long on the phone as mathjak did. I leave a voicemail or electronic message for my Flagship Rep and he calls me back... easy peasy.

 

[MRG]

Just because Fidelity manages beneficiaries differently, and more conveniently, does not make it a superior option. Anyone doing business with them for a couple of decades will surely recall the past issues they've had with legal and business ethics, especially surrounding how they handle trading.

I think all brokers, mutual fund companies, and other financial custodians have strengths and weaknesses. If I had to choose only one it would be Vanguard, because their compliance has never been in question, and it is a mutual business, run for the benefit of the fund holders, not owners.

+1

There's ~250 MF companies in the US, each is unique. They have different strengths, strategies, and cater differently to their client's expectations. They do basic things differently, phones, DR, security...

My career was in the industry and prerhaps at one time I was naive enough to think they were the same. That lasted till I met the second client. Even though it's the same business it's different. In some cases very different.

One common thread, is compliance. They each have legal teams and sometimes they're convinced words have alternative meaning. It was very common to have different companies do things completely basswards of one another. Huge things in regards to data, retention of records, recovery.

Personally I use both Fidelity and Vanguard. Happy with both of them. There are some fund companies I refuse to deal with, both of these have been OK.

 

[JoeWras]

Some day maybe we can talk about Financial Programs (now Invesco), Putnam and Janus.

I had transferred my Invesco to VG. Years later, I get a class action notice against Invesco. Like most of us do, I almost threw it in the trash. Good thing I didn't, it was the only real class action that paid. To me, that said whatever Invesco did (I didn't read the fine details), it must have been pretty bad.

Let's just say I'm happy with VG. Oh, and also Fidelity. I have a pretty good position there, primarily through our 401ks.

 

[Alan]

Over the past 2 years Fidelity have been ditching their overseas customers which is why we moved my wife's accounts to Vanguard. We have had no problems with either company's customer service over the years. Before hearing about the beneficiaries issue on joint accounts we had already split our accounts to individual accounts since the UK taxes folks as individuals not as married.

For us Vanguard also has the big advantage that all of their ETFs are HMRC Reporting which means the UK does not treat them as PFICs and they get the preferential tax treatment of equity dividends and capital gains.

 

[mathjak107]

it is all the luck of the draw . needless to say i got the short straw . based on my experiences not a company i want to do business with anymore

 

[teejayevans]

remember nothing is ever a problem until it is a problem and lately it has been one problem after another with vanguard . been with fidelity 30 years and so far no problems .

Oh I had problems with Fidelity , I haven't had any with Vanguard but I don't ask for much, and I am a Voyager member so I don't go through normal call channel.

 

[mathjak107]

we are voyager too , a lot of good it did .we got passed around like a hot potato .

unlike our fidelity rep who owns every problem , i never make a 2nd call for anything , no one at vanguard took the ball and ran with it . they just kept passing us from one person to another until finally some woman said to call her back in an hour on monday .

i called back , she did not get on the phone but left a number with someone in her department to give me when i call and told me to call it with our jpm rep ..

that is the number we called today and held on and no one ever picked up . just a recording to hold for the next available person . who evidently does not exist lol

that is in contrast to the time at fidelity our bank was going to send the funds from a mature cd to fidelity .

the bank screwed up and sent it a few days to early and when fidelity got it they noticed they hit it with a penalty .

they called me and told me and said don't bother calling them we will call them and tell them and ride herd on it until they send us the balance and they did !

when fidelity caught my wifes account info for sale on the dark web they closed everything up , contacted us and took care of every detail from checks , new accounts and new debit cards as well as re-establishing our bank and direct deposits without so much as a follow up call from us .

that is good customer service .

 

[MRG]

Some day maybe we can talk about Financial Programs (now Invesco), Putnam and Janus.

I had transferred my Invesco to VG. Years later, I get a class action notice against Invesco. Like most of us do, I almost threw it in the trash. Good thing I didn't, it was the only real class action that paid. To me, that said whatever Invesco did (I didn't read the fine details), it must have been pretty bad.

Let's just say I'm happy with VG. Oh, and also Fidelity. I have a pretty good position there, primarily through our 401ks.

Haha. Google those names and Spitzer. They were all found(or pleaded) guilty in '03-'04 over market timing.

There's a lot of "good ole boy" in the industry.

If you work in the industry; You'll see a lot of people re-inventing themselves at different fund companies. Sometimes they bring good ideas, sometimes they bring nonsense from other places. It's the second most inbred industry on the planet.

 

[MrLoco]

I'm getting the feeling some of the posters work for either Fidelity or JPM or some other financial company trying to badmouth Vanguard. We've been with Vanguard for over 30 years. I do not recognize a single one of the complaints on this thread. The customer service is knowledgable, very quick to answer our calls and they return calls quickly. We've had hour long discussions on 3 way lines. Beneficiary questions, Trust questions, how to maneuver the website questions, the list is pretty long over the years. We don't have one complaint. We're always treated with respect as our decisions.

Our statements, tax information, fund information etc are always available. We had concerns about security, they walked us through an extremely secure way to work with them on the phone and online. If we ask for any statement or letter in writing, we get it within days.

You have to understand something. The individual who started this thread also posts ad nauseam over on the city data investment/retirement forums and He is always right and You are always wrong. He is always quick to respond if you disagree with him. Some people are just like that. Best to ignore him. Vanguard is now and has been one of the best investment firms for the little guy/girl. Some people see the need to trash an investment firm because of one specific problem they have had. Ok...let them. I will put my trust in the firm Jack Bogle started versus Abigail Johnson. It is what it is. Ohhhh....wait for the response ....in 3...2...1.....

 

[mathjak107]

3-2-1


you do know there is the ignore button on the other forum if you care not to read my posts . no one forces you to read anything .
it is what it is and it des not change the fact i had a pretty crappy experience dealing with vanguard on multiple issues as well as policies at vanguard that should be brought to light as it can effect quite a few of us

 

[MrLoco]

Good for you that you are fully satisfied with VG. There is no reason you should consider moving your money then. What you see in this thread are individual examples of customers whose experience has been different from yours. I myself was with Vanguard for many, many years and their customer support was never their strongest suit. Acceptable, by and large, but not top notch. I was willing to cut them a good bit of slack, because they always made up for it by running the tightest ship and lowest fees. HOWEVER, the fee advantages have largely been wiped out, compared with Fidelity, Schwab, etc) now for a few years, and so it is harder to justify inferior customer service. Therefore, people leave when they have a bad experience (I did earlier this year). This doesn't mean Vanguard is the crappiest company out there - it is definitely NOT. It is still a very solid choice - just not the top choice any longer.

This is misleading. Only recently Fidelity and Schwab undercut Vanguard's Expense ratios on a few index funds by 0.5 to 1.0 basis points. Some savings! They did this because of so much "new" money coming into Vanguard and losing investment money to Vanguard.

However, when you compare ALL funds , Vanguard still has lower ER on most if not all of their actively managed, balanced , and sector funds. Fidelity's website only compares 17 index funds. Vanguard currently offers over 100 mutual funds and Fidelity has even more (at higher ER's).

Fidelity (and Schwab) got cute. They lowered their ER by 0.5 - 1.0 basis points on a few select index funds and then proclaimed: LOOK WE HAVE LOWER FEES THAN VANGUARD. Slick marketing.

 

[MrLoco]

3-2-1


you do know there is the ignore button on the other forum if you care not to read my posts . no one forces you to read anything .
it is what it is and it des not change the fact i had a pretty crappy experience dealing with vanguard on multiple issues as well as policies at vanguard that should be brought to light as it can effect quite a few of us

Lol! That only took a whole 8 minutes! No.......you are too entertaining to be put on ignore!

 

[MichaelB]

Let's keep it friendly, please.

 

[Texas Proud]

3-2-1


you do know there is the ignore button on the other forum if you care not to read my posts . no one forces you to read anything .
it is what it is and it des not change the fact i had a pretty crappy experience dealing with vanguard on multiple issues as well as policies at vanguard that should be brought to light as it can effect quite a few of us

I have no problem with you not liking Vanguard.... there is an issue with the way they do business that you do not like and you are moving.... that is the way our system is supposed to work...


Now, I will fault you on waiting over 1 hour on the phone... unless they had a recording telling you that it was an hour wait I would have called back or called some other number.... I have never waited more than a couple of minutes to get someone on the phone...


Since I do not have your problem (have zero joint accounts) I like Vanguard for the low fees etc. that they provide... and when I had to move money from Fidelity to Vanguard they were on the phone with me talking to Fidelity about what needed to be done... BTW, Fidelity would not transfer the money directly to them!!! They insisted they send me a check and I had to forward it to Vanguard...

I am sure I have had a problem with them before, but I cannot remember what it was....

 

[mathjak107]

we had a lot of account paper work to do while waiting so we waited with them on speaker phone . in the beginning we called back a few times before waiting it out . had we had nothing to do we would have hung up quite a while prior and went home ..

no checks can be used in this case because it is a securities acat transfer .

 

[googily]

3-2-1


you do know there is the ignore button on the other forum if you care not to read my posts . no one forces you to read anything .
it is what it is and it des not change the fact i had a pretty crappy experience dealing with vanguard on multiple issues as well as policies at vanguard that should be brought to light as it can effect quite a few of us

Yes, we heard you the first 37 times in this thread.

 

[SecondCor521]

the continuing saga :
so vanguard compiles statements quarterly . the problem is the new upgraded brokerage account is not on a statement yet .

jpm said they need the statements and not a screen shot but we can't get a statement until october .

so we were advised to call the acat dept at vanguard to see if we can get a letterhead showing all the new account info .

well vanguard had us on hold for over 1 hour and 10 minutes . we tried on 2 phones to get someone to answer. we just got a recording that says thank you for holding , all representatives are busy .

are they kidding with this service , it is unacceptable . we hung up 1 hour and 16 minutes later .

chase /jpm is trying to submit a work around by using the old statement and the letterhead that shows the transfer to the upgraded account and new number .

not sure if compliance will let it go through or not . other wise i will have to wait until october to move the account .

no one answering a phone in over an hour is pathetic customer service . if i was transferring money in and calling the acat dept i would have said forget it .

In this scenario I think JPM is being unreasonable too. All they should need is the firm and the account number to do an ACAT transfer.

Like others, I have never had to wait more than 10 minutes to get a hold of someone at Vanguard. Especially on the Voyager line, and I believe you said you are a Voyager client with them (at least for now, anyway).

 

[mathjak107]

sorry , but the statement being needed is a sec rule not jpm .

it is right here in the sec rules on their website .




https://www.sec.gov/reportspubs/inve...ctxferhtm.html


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
right from securities & exchange commission website under how to avoid delays of acat transfers ..


Review the Form Carefully

"As you start filling in the transfer form, review the account statement from your old firm where your account is held. All firms require you to attach a copy of your most recent account statement to the transfer form."

 

[mathjak107]

In this scenario I think JPM is being unreasonable too. All they should need is the firm and the account number to do an ACAT transfer.

Like others, I have never had to wait more than 10 minutes to get a hold of someone at Vanguard. Especially on the Voyager line, and I believe you said you are a Voyager client with them (at least for now, anyway).

it is a separate number in this case from those who field voyager calls in general customer service . they farmed us out to this other number

 

[mathjak107]

I agree with you that this would be ridiculous. However, I think the person who told you this was mistaken or there was a miscommunication between the two of you.

My parents had a joint account with Vanguard and had beneficiaries on that account for decades. I am not sure why your experience was different. They do have two kinds of accounts - the "old" mutual fund kind and the "new" brokerage kind; perhaps that was it.

nope , it was not a person who was mistaken , it is their policy since 2014 .

others doubted it and contacted vanguard themselves . if you look in the previous posts there is the reply posted and reasoning vanguard gave . our beneficiaries were removed .