Vanguard report on the value of financial advice

I managed our portfolio for years and did reasonably well. However I managed it for growth, not income. Decided to hire an FA 3 years before FIRE for two reasons:
1. Transition portfolio to produce enough income for ER while still investing for growth as much as possible.

I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate here. >:D

Why manage for income vs. growth? I don't see the point. Money is fungible. Manage for total return and take whatever you have calculated is your SWR to live on. Who cares if the dollars came from growth, dividends, or interest?

Okay, time to kick the devil to the curb. :angel:

OTOH, if an income oriented approach works for you and you can sleep at night, by all means continue. Who am I to think I know better about what's good for you than you do? There's a lot to be said for having peace of mind. I'm sure many here could pick apart my AA and mutual find choices, but I do sleep well at night. :)
 
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The type of people who benefit from FAs are also the sort of people that see it as sensible to pay 1% for something they can get for free.



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Not sure if this was discussed here before but a recent article in the WSJ shows that 82% of actively managed US mutual funds trailed index funds for the last 15 years.

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1868196

You may need a subscription to access the article. For those who are unable to access the article try these two links:

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/print/WSJ_-A001-20170413.pdf
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/print/WSJ_-A008-20170413.pdf


From the article:
"Over the 15 years ended in December 2016, 82% of all U.S. funds trailed their respective benchmarks, according to the latest S&P Indices Versus Active funds scorecard. This was the first year that the analysis included 15 years of data, helping smooth out periods of volatility that can affect the performance of active managers."

many times just using a pretty cheap newsletter is all it takes to get very good performance , hand holding and guidance .

i have always used managed funds over most of my investor life but in a dynamic portfolio using the fidelity insight newsletter . . it never mattered to me how funds did year to year as all the funds i have used have sweet spots where the big picture is obviously better at times than others for them .

while fund managers have to stick to the funds bylaws and objectives day in and day out i do not and can tilt a portfolio slightly one way or another .

so it is easy for the sum of the parts to do better than any fund individually does . you do not even have to be right all the time . just being right more than wrong pays off .

so the performance is extracted when the bigger picture favors a particular fund's weighting when it has its day in the sun and when the big picture changes the fund is swapped .

as an example , last year about 20% of my portfolio was in high yield . it was a no brainier the way markets priced the high yield market like 1/2 of the bonds were going to default . it just made little sense . so there was a pretty good value there that ended up producing better than 16% returns yet had a beta of almost 1/2 the s&p 500 .

today the spread between quality and high yield is to the point it is no longer worth owning those funds anymore so they are swapped .

a high yield fund has to stay in high yield but i as an investor we do not and that makes a big difference in portfolio outcomes vs just performance on individual funds year over year .

another example might be small cap value has had a huge run up , today it is a good idea to scale back or even move to other areas of the market as the risk is likely greater than the reward may be , but even if you scale back and are wrong it will not hurt things much as it is only one fund in a portfolio that is swapped .


most of the fidelity and vanguard newsletters that utilize their funds have very good track records over the long term and they all do just that .

i use fidelity insight's newsletter and have been using it since 1987 with excellent results from managed funds .

a 100k investment when i started in the growth model is over 2.3 million today eclipsing the s&p 500 by just over 470k including those slightly higher expenses on fidelity managed funds .. just look at the difference in performance between fidelity's managed total bond fund vs vanguards unmanaged index , it is night and day over every time frame .

i can put portfolio's together in my sleep yet i use the the newsletter for many reasons .

i do it because i am never happy at being average at anything so left to my own devices i am always plotting my next move and 2nd guessing the last one trying to outsmart things .

i do it because i devote all of 30 seconds a week reading an update on friday's . usually funds stay in place for quite a while but when they outlived their usefulness they are swapped .

it makes it very simple for my wife to handle things if i am not here .

so performance has been good , the fact i don't have to think about things is good and the portfolio is nicely balanced because you can buy even index funds and end up with so much stock over lap without knowing just what is held .

it can be bad in index funds when putting different ones together and it gets worse buying managed funds where you can get lots of over lap from the same fund family .

40% of our assets are in index and etf funds in the golden butterfly which can react upward even in a stock plunge , the rest are in the fidelity insight models which i have followed for 30 years . are the models the winner every year ? nope . they just have to be more right than wrong and evidently that has not been hard to do at all over the decades .

so there is a big difference between a fund manager being locked in to the funds rules and objectives vs how you do as an investor when utilizing those funds in a comprehensive portfolio and the funds interact with each other and are not bound by rules and bylaws nor are you required to sit with the fund when the big picture changes for that fund . .

the insight growth model has averaged almost 11% cagr the last 30 years vs a bit over 10 for the s&p 500. that extra 1% which is after the slightly higher expenses grew a whole lot more money over the long term and the important thing is for most of it the beta was lower than the s&p 500..
 
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I have had very good success with a portfolio of diversified low cost mutual funds. Ive been investing for a long long time. I've never seen any reason to pay someone to pick a couple of funds for me. Once I had a couple years expenses in cash like instrument there is no rebalancing. It becomes set it and forget it. Oh yeah I buy some more every now and then when the cash builds up. If you take the time to read this forum you can read all you need to know.

Ask your self does vanguard publish these 2 numbers?
1. Average portfolio earnings all our customers not being managed
2. Average portfolio earnings after fees all our customers being managed

Say for the last 5, 7, 10 years. Oh you say that does account for... Me I really don't care I'm in it for the money. I have read on numerous occasions:

The average money manger never beats the market over time.
The impact of those fees over time can be dramatic. I've seen the numbers they are..
The number of people who put their faith in a fa who robbed them. The stories are never ending and heart breaking.

If your really need the fa they use one who charges by the hour and doesn't sell anything. And unless your JP Morgan it should take more then a couple hours. Oh if he/she shows up in a new car -ditch em and run like mad..
 
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the reason folks seek help is rarely picking the investments . the reason folks seek advice and hand holding is they lack the discipline to stay in them .

it is always not a bad idea to seek out knowledgeable advice . even those who index can benefit from a newsletter .

a classic error i see frequently is using the popular trinity from vanguard VOO-VO-VB by indexers . .

which is s&p 500-midcap-small cap

the over lap in holdings is pretty bad . the problem is the index's they follow .

on the other hand buying IVV-IJH-IJR from i-shares has no overlap because of different index's . so just buying index funds blindly is not the answer either .

someone on another forum looked under the hood at some popular combo's .


VOO vs. VO = 229 overlapping constituents (45% of VOO's holdings, 67% of VO's holdings)
VO vs. VB = 20 overlapping constituents (6% of VO's holdings, 1% of VB's holdings)
VOO vs. VB = 28 overlapping constituents (6% of VOO's holdings, 2% of VB's holdings)

IVV vs. IJH = 0 overlapping constituents
IJH vs. IJR = 0 overlapping constituents
IVV vs. IJR = 0 overlapping constituents
 
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I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate here. >:D

Why manage for income vs. growth? I don't see the point. Money is fungible. Manage for total return and take whatever you have calculated is your SWR to live on. Who cares if the dollars came from growth, dividends, or interest?

Okay, time to kick the devil to the curb. :angel:

OTOH, if an income oriented approach works for you and you can sleep at night, by all means continue. Who am I to think I know better about what's good for you than you do? There's a lot to be said for having peace of mind. I'm sure many here could pick apart my AA and mutual find choices, but I do sleep well at night. :)



I agree total return is most important. However before we moved our portfolio to the FA, it was much less predictable. While annual or even multi-year performance numbers had been generally good, I sleep better having a more predictable stream of dividends and income coming from a chunk of our assets. Would not want to sell assets in a declining market if I can avoid it.

I'm not saying one can't create this DIY. I just didn't feel confident in my ability to do so and wanted the help of a pro. So far, so good.
 
Money is fungible, but tax time, I find taxes are not fungible. Dividends create a tax burden immediately. Depending on location in my portfolio, this could be income, ltcg, or nothing.

I strive to get finances that simple place where it doesn't matter, but that will take years.
 
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