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06-23-2021, 09:48 AM
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#1
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 497
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Vanguard Wellesley
I have noticed for awhile that VWINX has been at a Morning Star Rating of 4 when it was a long time 5 star.
I have 75% of my ira in this or 25% of my total stock investment(60/40).
Is there a 5 star comparable out there with similar low costs?
__________________
You've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?
Retired July '11 investments in very low cost index and mutual funds, balance once a year at best.
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06-23-2021, 09:49 AM
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#2
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,204
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I think the luster has worn off Morningstar ratings so I wouldn't fret about it at all.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
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06-23-2021, 11:19 AM
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#3
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: City
Posts: 10,308
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The way the star ratings works is this: Within a category of funds, the 5% with the best historical performance get 5 stars, with the 4,3,2,1 stars distributed according to formulas. Since history has consistently been shown to not be predictive, the stars are arguably meaningless. WSJ did a big study a couple of years ago that confirmed this and they sort of embarrassed M* into admitting the fact where before they were keeping quiet.
The other thing to remember is that a 5-star fund in a poorly-performing category can easily be eclipsed by a lowly 2-star fund in a category that has been outperforming.
More: https://news.morningstar.com/classro...&page=3&CN=COM
__________________
Ignoramus et ignorabimus
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06-23-2021, 11:25 AM
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#4
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,468
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I don't know anything about these ratings.
However, Wellesley VWIAX is 30% of my portfolio and has been during my 12 years of retirement (so far), as well as during several years just prior to retirement. I am satisfied with Wellesley and not even considering any changes.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
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06-23-2021, 01:22 PM
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#5
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducky911
I have noticed for awhile that VWINX has been at a Morning Star Rating of 4 when it was a long time 5 star.
I have 75% of my ira in this or 25% of my total stock investment(60/40).
Is there a 5 star comparable out there with similar low costs?
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I spoke with a fee only advisor a few months ago and asked for an index alternative to WLS that was similar in its AA, etc, but wouldn't necessarily throw off dividends like WLS. He said VG Balanced Index Fund.
I haven't switched from WLS to that index fund yet as it would be a taxable event and I want to do Roth conversions now....but I may move away from WLS as my future income projections keep me in higher brackets.
__________________
Deserat aka Bridget
“We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.”
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06-23-2021, 03:08 PM
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#6
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,496
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Chasing stars is futile excercise.
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There must be moderation in everything, including moderation.
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06-23-2021, 03:21 PM
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#7
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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06-23-2021, 06:42 PM
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#8
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski
I think the luster has worn off Morningstar ratings so I wouldn't fret about it at all.
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+1
M* ratings mean almost nothing.
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06-23-2021, 09:11 PM
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#9
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,566
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Just looked Wellesley is still rated at 5* on morningstar.
If you want a higher return look at VTMFX and Wellington.
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06-24-2021, 02:21 AM
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#10
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: On a hill in the Pine Barrens
Posts: 9,669
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More important than the star ratings are what's inside a fund. https://www.morningstar.com/funds/xnas/vwinx/quote
The fund provides income, so it is skewed to large cap value and has sensitivity to interest rates. The turnover is 53%.
Vanguard Balanced Index Fund Admiral Shares (VBIAX) has a 60/40 allocation which is the opposite of Vanguard Wellesley Income (VWIAX).
We hold VWIAX in tax-deferred and tax-free accounts only.
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06-24-2021, 08:13 AM
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#11
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homestead
Just looked Wellesley is still rated at 5* on morningstar.
If you want a higher return look at VTMFX and Wellington.
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I see admiral shares are 5 star. Regular are 4 star.
I own it in my Schwab account so no admiral available.
Thanks for all the responses. I am staying put.
__________________
You've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?
Retired July '11 investments in very low cost index and mutual funds, balance once a year at best.
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06-24-2021, 08:21 AM
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#12
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W2R
I don't know anything about these ratings.
However, Wellesley VWIAX is 30% of my portfolio and has been during my 12 years of retirement (so far), as well as during several years just prior to retirement. I am satisfied with Wellesley and not even considering any changes.
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I don’t have any Wellesley, but if was starting over again I’d own a big chunk of it. My portfolio is all Vanguard funds, but it doesn’t make sense to take the tax hit(s) to switch to Wellesley. I’d stick with Wellesley OP…
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No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57
Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
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06-26-2021, 02:14 PM
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#13
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 163
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My portfolio is 50% Wellesley and 50% Wellington and I am very happy and have no plans to change it.
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06-27-2021, 09:56 AM
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#14
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by target2019
More important than the star ratings are what's inside a fund. https://www.morningstar.com/funds/xnas/vwinx/quote
The fund provides income, so it is skewed to large cap value and has sensitivity to interest rates. The turnover is 53%.
Vanguard Balanced Index Fund Admiral Shares (VBIAX) has a 60/40 allocation which is the opposite of Vanguard Wellesley Income (VWIAX).
We hold VWIAX in tax-deferred and tax-free accounts only.
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Good catch - I thought that Wellesley was 60/40 and Wellington was 40/60 - looks like it's switched. That's OK - I'm at my overall AA across my portfolio. -
To the OP - if you go over to Bogleheads you will see a lot of discussion about WLS...it is an active fund, not an index. If you are looking for a more passive fund, you can find something with a similar AA as WLS. The discussions on Bogleheads are about what is the 'secret sauce' that the managers of WLS have for their fairly consistent decent performance....
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Deserat aka Bridget
“We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.”
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06-27-2021, 10:10 AM
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#15
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Sector 001 - Alpha Quadrant
Posts: 237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducky911
I see admiral shares are 5 star. Regular are 4 star.
I own it in my Schwab account so no admiral available.
Thanks for all the responses. I am staying put.
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VWIAX can be held at Schwab so you can transfer it there without a fee...just can't add to it.
VTMFX can be purchased and held at Schwab. Fee applies unless you have a fee waiver on the account.
The only "equivalent" to Wellesley that has low expenses is AOK.
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