Stock Ratings

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I have a two-part question about stock ratings.

First question. The 1 and 2 start Morningstar stock ratings mean that the stock is trading meaningfully above fair value. Other rating services uses word ratings such as buy, hold and sell. A 1 or 2 star Morningstar star rating is not necessarily equivalent to a "sell" rating is it? If the stock is overvalued, at least in Morningstar's opinion, and you are otherwise inclined to sell, it might be a good time to sell that stock. But there is nothing wrong with hanging on to the stock is there, even though it has a 1 or 2 star Morningstar rating?

Second question. As I have been reorganizing my notes on the individual stocks I hold in my portfolio, I've noticed a few things. One thing I've noticed (I am at Schwab, headwinds notwithstanding) is that Schwab can be a real outlier at times on its ratings. For example, most everyone else loved (pun intended) Southwest Airlines, but I think Schwab rated it as D or F. Another thing I've noticed, is that often there isn't a lot of variation between the ratings for the various stocks I own by any given analyst. In other words, Morningstar, for example, gives many of my stocks the same or very similar ratings. I don't see a lot of negative ratings, however you care to define "negative."

That could be because all of the stocks I own are absolutely wonderful. But it makes me wonder, how much weight should I give to analyst ratings? I've read that the analysts are biased to be positive. I'm not sure why. Perhaps because that would keep the value of customer's accounts higher. But I would think, at least in the days of commissions, that the bias might just as easily be to be negative so that customers are trading and generating commissions more frequently. It would be like churning a managed account, except that the analysts would be giving customers stock or fund ratings that are biased on the negative side so that the customers do the churning themselves. Does anyone have any thoughts on the merits/validity of these ratings? I give them more weight than I do a statement by a car manufacturer in an advertisement that their XYZ car is the best in its class. But I'm cautious about giving the analysts' ratings too much weight.
 
You can’t spell analyst without…

I view Analyst ratings as info-tainment, hopefully getting some useful information, but don’t put much stock in their recommendations. Lol.

Haven’t used Morningstar in forever, but I like your explanation of their lower ratings meaning overvalued but not necessarily sell.
 
... but I like your explanation of their lower ratings meaning overvalued but not necessarily sell.


Thanks. Just to clarify,"lower ratings meaning overvalued" is based on Morningstar's own explanation of its star ratings. "But not necessarily sell" is my interpretation/addition.
 
You can’t spell analyst without…

True. What I find most humorous: On August 30th, JP Morgan lowered the price target for Realty Income (O) from 71 to 69 & reiterated a neutral. Shares were trading around $56 at the time. If this particular analyst figures it's worth $69 a share, yet it's trading at $56, how can you only rate it a neutral ?
 
Such ratings often change after the news horse is already out of the barn.
 
Such ratings often change after the news horse is already out of the barn.

So true, they should've told me some stock is expected to out perform BEFORE it already went up 15% last month :facepalm:

Frankly analysts really don't know if a company will perform well or not, they just make a guess based on some facts/financials.

I mostly buy ETF's for this reason. My best stock purchase was accidental, I had cash and had no idea what to buy. So I bought Microsoft as it had been around a long time and paid a dividend. It has gone up 10x my investment over the years. :dance: Wish I had more accidents like that.
 
... A 1 or 2 star Morningstar star rating is not necessarily equivalent to a "sell" rating is it?...

... "lower ratings meaning overvalued" is based on Morningstar's own explanation of its star ratings. ...

.Not sure where you are getting your information. The "star" score is simply a backward look at where an asset ranked among its peer group. IIRC the top 10% get 5 stars and the bottom 10% get one star. It says nothing about the attractiveness of the group or the asset for investment and has been shown by repeated studies to not be predictive. This is completely consistent with years of research showing that past performance is not predictive.*

The brutal truth is that stock and MF performance in the short term (maybe to 5 years) is very closely approximated by a random process. It is only over the long haul/aka buy-and-hold that the slight upward bias of the market can be exploited.

Rather than studying the entrails at Morningstar, I suggest that you read Burton Malkiel (https://www.amazon.com/Random-Walk-Down-Wall-Street/dp/0393330338) and William Bernstein (https://www.amazon.com/Four-Pillars-Investing-Building-Portfolio/dp/0071747052). Be sure to get the most recent editions of both books. Both have been recently updated.

*"Morningstar acknowledges its rating system is a quantitative measure of a fund's past performance that is not intended to accurately predict future performance."(https://www.investopedia.com/articl...gstars-best-mutual-funds-really-best-morn.asp)
 
.Not sure where you are getting your information. The "star" score is simply a backward look at where an asset ranked among its peer group. IIRC the top 10% get 5 stars and the bottom 10% get one star. It says nothing about the attractiveness of the group or the asset for investment and has been shown by repeated studies to not be predictive. This is completely consistent with years of research showing that past performance is not predictive.*
(https://www.investopedia.com/articl...gstars-best-mutual-funds-really-best-morn.asp)


I got my information regarding the star ratings for stocks from Morningstar.


https://www.morningstar.com/best-investments/five-star-stocks
 
Sorry. I was thinking of their star ratings for mutual funds, which are quite a different animal.

That said, I'll stick to my recommendation of the two books. We have at least 60 years of research showing that stock picking doesn't work. Here are a couple of slides from my Adult Ed investing course:

Chart #1 from semiannual S&P SPIVA studies. (They all report the same result):

38349-albums210-picture2267.jpg


Chart #2 from S&P Manager Persistence studies. )They also all report the same result.):

38349-albums210-picture1955.jpg
 
I think the analysis is more meaningful than the "scores". I think back in the day Value Line's lower scores stocks may have outperformed the ones with highest timeliness scores.
 
Sorry. I was thinking of their star ratings for mutual funds, which are quite a different animal.

That said, I'll stick to my recommendation of the two books. We have at least 60 years of research showing that stock picking doesn't work. Here are a couple of slides from my Adult Ed investing course:


Thanks OldShooter. I wasn't questioning your comments about stock picking. I just wanted to answer your question as to my source for the meaning of the star ratings for stocks. I meant to earlier when you first asked the question but I just didn't have the time to go back and double check my notes.



For a ton of reasons, I am not interested in stock picking, not the least of which is your comment that it just doesn't work. But I have some hold over stocks (from when my investments were not at Schwab and not as self-managed as they are now) that I continue to monitor. I am not adding to those positions or purchasing any other individual stocks. I suppose one could say that to the extent I continue to own them, I am engaging in stock picking. But I do want to continue to hold them until the time is right, or at least good, to sell them. That's why I have reason to look at various stock ratings, some of which I think are about as helpful as ratings for cars. As others have pointed out, some of the ratings can be quite humorous.
 
Thanks OldShooter. I wasn't questioning your comments about stock picking. I just wanted to answer your question as to my source for the meaning of the star ratings for stocks. I meant to earlier when you first asked the question but I just didn't have the time to go back and double check my notes.



For a ton of reasons, I am not interested in stock picking, not the least of which is your comment that it just doesn't work. But I have some hold over stocks (from when my investments were not at Schwab and not as self-managed as they are now) that I continue to monitor. I am not adding to those positions or purchasing any other individual stocks. I suppose one could say that to the extent I continue to own them, I am engaging in stock picking. But I do want to continue to hold them until the time is right, or at least good, to sell them. That's why I have reason to look at various stock ratings, some of which I think are about as helpful as ratings for cars. As others have pointed out, some of the ratings can be quite humorous.

I found Morningstar ratings to be moderately useful over the years. I know for a long time they were hyping the performance aspect of how you were better of buying 5 star stocks and selling 1 star, but they seemed to have backed off.

On the other hand, despite being a 40-year customer of Schwab and a big fan of the company and their service, I found the Schwab ratings to be useless. They aren't even good as contrarian indicators. I don't really buy individual stocks, very much anymore but occasionally sell some I already.
Of the research Schwab provides, I find M* to be the most valuable, followed by Thomson-Rueters and Argus, the rest I just glance at.
 
I don't trust analyst. There's a reason why you rarely see Sell recommendations.

Lost $20K back in 2002 when a stock analyst gave a Strong Buy rating on a spin off of my companies stock - right before it declared bankruptcy. Turns out one of the Smith Barney analysts gave his rating in order to (among other things) get his 4 year old into a select NYC pre-school. Fortunately, I got the entire $20K back when the SEC fined Smith Barney almost a billion bucks for giving out "misleading" ratings.
 
I don't trust analyst. ...
Why would you? If any of them could consistently identify profitable trades, they wouldn't be analysts. They would be private investors working from poolside on their megayachts. They wouldn't be giving away their skills for free or for a pittance.

Said another way, anyone selling stock picking advice is offering a worthless product.
 
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