Very small networth when ER ?

[Senator]

We all have free will. Make our beds then sleep in them. Spent one Christmas on barracks duty, one in Okinawa, one in Somalia and one in Sadr City. All my choice. I willingly did that knowing that I would rate a pension after 20 yrs. We can all take steps to change our situations and futures. After hours education/training, start your own business, learn a new skill, apply for a different job, get a second job, marry rich, save-invest-ER, etc...

100% true. If I was to count all the extra hours I worked while rehabbing rental, owning and operating a bar/grill, all while holding a full-time job. I have worked two jobs nearly my entire life.

100-hour weeks were common for me for many years. Some people cannot even get out of bed and they wonder why their life is difficult financially. Or they wonder why someone else cannot help they pay for rent, child support or their healthcare.

The harder I work, the more privilege I get.

 

[Danmar]

When I was a Section 8 landlord, all my tenants were retired at age 18... Better healthcare, decent housing, free transportation and free legal. Even free Christmas presents.

The only disadvantage was choice.

Good point. I think the term "retirement" as in "never too young to retire" might be a little off the mark. Perhaps better to use "dropping out"in these extreme cases? Retirement is generally something that should be earned, no?

 

[NW-Bound]

... my dad, who had been an island hopper in the Pacific during WWII, told me that, if I was going to be drafted, I would be far better off becoming an officer than an enlisted man like he had been (drafted in Feb, 1942, discharged in Dec 1945). The thought of a pension for me at 17 was like thinking we would have cell phones or the internet. Wasn't on the radar...

A close friend of mine made the same choice knowing that he was going to be drafted anyway, and was trained to fly a Huey for evac in Vietnam. He did not stick around after his tour though, having seen enough. Getting out of the Army, he took school more seriously this time, and became a very good engineer.

 

[Teacher Terry]

After we retired in our 50's some friends of ours that were 10 years older were really mad and jealous about our small pensions. For years they were self employed life coaches working from home and they stated that they never wanted to retire so it didn't matter that they had no $ saved. They encouraged us to work for ourselves, etc. No thanks. I talked about my pension for years. Then when it was reality they were pissed that they still had to work. About 2 years after retiring I let the friendship go as it was not working anymore.

 

[athena53]

Parents retired at FRA with only SS at $1200/mo combined. Their house was worth about $200k with a $40k mortgage, which would be a net worth of $160k. <snip>Although they live in a LCOL area, $1200/mo doesn't cover their expenses.

Wow. Whoever leaves this earth first, the other will be in a world of hurt when their SS stops.

 

[NW-Bound]

Stopped working at the end of December 1988 aged 46 years and 3 months......had $500k Canadian, (no pension)...

Currently have slightly over 370% of what I had when I stopped working, ( a couple hundred k of that came with DW).

With the standard Canadian government pensions, (similar to SS, plus DW qualifies for the age segment in 10 months), we do pretty well....a little travel once in a while...(sometimes twice in a while)..no complaints....(especially since I didn't start 'really' working until I was about thirty).

Oh, and our projected expenditure for 2016 is ~ $37,000 Canadian, ($28,000 US).

I don't know how much your standard Canadian SS is, but it looks like you are not drawing very much from your stash.

Perhaps you should travel more, as you like to do that.

 

[Nemo2]

....it looks like you are not drawing very much from your stash.

Perhaps you should travel more, as you like to do that.

We spend less than we bring in.....currently, (not counting ~ $670K Canadian with a mutual fund company, which we include in our total worth, but any/all divs/gains get reinvested so are not counted as tangible 'income'), our divs/pensions (and DW will be eligible for her age pension in October 2017, which will increase the amount), run at around $49,300 p.a., of which $19,700 is pension.

This year's expenditures are currently at $36,174, (any further purchases will be on Visa and will appear on the January 2017 statement), so 'our' money spent was $16,474.

On the premise that the earnings/expenditure ratio will remain static, (although it'll probably increase to our benefit as we age), as of this a.m. (before the markets opened, and not including our condo townhouse, or DW's 2017 increase), if we cash out and amortize everything we have enough for 103.85 years, (if we continue as we are, then even longer)....and it's quite unlikely either of us will be around then.

Before she went over to her daughter's this morning to assist in Christmas baking, DW said "maybe we should look at one of the South American winter cruises around the cape".

 

[NW-Bound]

All right! No need to get stuck in the frozen north if you can afford an escape.

Besides, you need to spread that wealth. Can't take it with you.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Nemo: take a round the world cruise)

 

[Nemo2]

Nemo: take a round the world cruise)

 

[Teacher Terry]

We are getting to be cruise addicts having taken 3 in the past 14 months. I guess people either love them or hate them.

 

[Nemo2]

We are getting to be cruise addicts having taken 3 in the past 14 months. I guess people either love them or hate them.

We use them primarily as one way transport; floating buses, to or from Europe.

 

[Teacher Terry]

What a great idea! I had not even thought of doing that.

 

[Nemo2]

What a great idea! I had not even thought of doing that.

Waaaay better than flying; approximately two weeks food and accommodation, ports to visit on the way, no jet lag...we love it.

 

[kcowan]

Waaaay better than flying; approximately two weeks food and accommodation, ports to visit on the way, no jet lag...we love it.

We have friends here in Mexico who do this every year for relocation trips from Europe to the US. They escape the oppressive heat here in PV in September, and live in luxury at a price comparable to Motel 6 all in.

We are meeting them in Berlin and then again in Paris and Nice this year.

 

[Nemo2]

We are meeting them in Berlin and then again in Paris and Nice this year.

Right now we're still checking out a ship leaving from Civitavecchia and going to San Juan, P.R. in November 2017.......wondering where to go first......so many places to visit and re-visit, and since we dislike flying, and really dislike paying for the opportunity to dislike flying, air fare costs are a factor...there's something to see/do everywhere.

 

[kcowan]

Right now we're still checking out a ship leaving from Civitavecchia and going to San Juan, P.R. in November 2017.......wondering where to go first......so many places to visit and re-visit, and since we dislike flying, and really dislike paying for the opportunity to dislike flying, air fare costs are a factor...there's something to see/do everywhere.

If you are looking for a place to hang out near the airport, Fragene on the Med has long sandy beaches and is a quaint small town that is jumping in the summer. The hotel we stayed in has bikes and the roads are empty after Labor Day so you can see the whole town (with some spectacular villas for the rich Romans) and there are funky restaurants and grocery stores readily available. Also will fit your budget.

We stayed there after a hectic time in Sicily and thoroughly enjoyed our three days there before heading home. BTW Vueling flights to Sicily are cheap from Rome.

 

[Nemo2]

If you are looking for a place to hang out near the airport, Fragene on the Med has long sandy beaches and is a quaint small town that is jumping in the summer. The hotel we stayed in has bikes and the roads are empty after Labor Day so you can see the whole town (with some spectacular villas for the rich Romans) and there are funky restaurants and grocery stores readily available. Also will fit your budget.

We stayed there after a hectic time in Sicily and thoroughly enjoyed our three days there before heading home. BTW Vueling flights to Sicily are cheap from Rome.

Thanks Keith, we'll check it out......on our list of pre-sailing venues currently, (but not exclusively; we change with the wind...even when we're inside), are Trieste, (spent a few days there in 1963, enjoyed it, never made it back), Palermo, Foggia...and and and.....

 

[kcowan]

Thanks Keith, we'll check it out......on our list of pre-sailing venues currently, (but not exclusively; we change with the wind...even when we're inside), are Trieste, (spent a few days there in 1963, enjoyed it, never made it back), Palermo, Foggia...and and and.....

Our stay in Sicily was Taormina and Catania. Great caprese salads and red wine. Apparently the lava soil is good for both!

 

[Hyper]

I'm definitely the odd one out! Find it odd that so many are comfortable about having pensions. DW will have a small one when/if she retires. I'd be petrified with current US situations of pensions if we HAD to depend on one for comfortable retirement. I'm much more comfortable depending on myself.

 

[brucethebroker]

I'm definitely the odd one out! Find it odd that so many are comfortable about having pensions. DW will have a small one when/if she retires. I'd be petrified with current US situations of pensions if we HAD to depend on one for comfortable retirement. I'm much more comfortable depending on myself.

I was paranoid about the continued existence of SS for retirement when I was in my 30's. However, I am now confident that it will be around for our continued use (boomers).

Of course, if we had ONLY SS, retirement would be quite bleak. But as part of the "3 legged stool" retirement concept (SS, a pension, and savings, as I learned it back in the 70's), it can be an important part of the plan. Now, non-pension people should be plugging in 401-k/IRA's in place of the pension. Those who do, retire. Those who don't......

 

[brucethebroker]

IMHO, part of the problem is the non-education of retirement planning. I seriously doubt that most people eligible for pensions (old days) gave them much of a thought when they began careers. They just trusted mega-corp would take care of them at retirement. Now, without pensions for most workers, the people need to be better educated in high school, college and on the job about the critical need to save for themselves.

Personally, I think rules should be put in place to NEVER allow loans from 401-k's, or WD for hardships, new homes, etc. Also, govt. should make 401-k transfers (at job separation) mandatory and not allow "cashing out", regardless of the penalty. Make rules similar to SS-no one takes an early lump sum there. (Imagine the chaos if that was allowed!)

There are too many people without a financial clue, who lose a job, then drain their 401-k before they seriously look for work, or downsize or do whatever else to survive. Some of whom, I suspect, wind up on news stories later about how folks can't retire on SS these days.

 

[Pellice]

Well, I will be holding up the low end of retirement income when I FIRE, somewhere between 62 and 64. (61 now). (If FIRE is applicable to that age group). I will have somewhere a bit over $1 million in funds; a decent social security income which will provide approx. 50% of my income needs when I take it at full retirement age. It will be close, but two different financial advisers are confident I can make it (retirement with slightly higher living-wage than I have now) happen. What will enable this is that I have been exceedingly careful with spending all my life. I have been willing to spend on eco-travel. I also donate to charity 5% of my living-wage income. Everything else is carefully considered. Possible because I am single, with no kids, and healthy, with health expenses paid if necessary. I chose the route of a secure, if somewhat stressful and unmeaningful, job. Maybe I'm among the last with such a choice. I never felt that I had many options, but, fingers crossed, my third act will bring those. I have so many plans and dreams! I want to make a more meaningful contribution to the world. My route to FIRE was discipline, frugality, and caution. Not the most glorious of paths, but, just wait!

 

[garyt]

I don't begrudge people who have pensions but I do have a problem with ridiculously high public service pensions which were negotiated by the same people who would benefit from those same pensions. In cities where I've lived the city officials got the same pension as the workers. So when the union negotiates for a bigger pension than the city can afford where's the checks/balances?
Your pension shouldn't pay you more than you made working. One thing my city got caught doing was giving promotions to people on their last day of work, so they then retired at a higher pension then they earned. They would then collect 30+ years making more money then when they worked.

 

[ziggy29]

Your pension shouldn't pay you more than you made working. One thing my city got caught doing was giving promotions to people on their last day of work, so they then retired at a higher pension then they earned. They would then collect 30+ years making more money then when they worked.

This was a common topic of contention here after the financial crisis and near-meltdown of the global markets in 2008 turned a lot of 401Ks into 201Ks. It seems like every other thread was a debate over public pensions.

As I recall it, even most of those who have relatively generous DB pension plans tended to agree that the practice of "spiking" and other games (which does what you describe) is morally questionable even if it's legal -- it not only harms taxpayers but also damages pensioners who didn't do it, because the overgenerous payouts to "spikers" weakens the financial solvency of the pension fund for everyone else. That is a matter for state and local governing entities to tackle, though. I don't begrudge anyone for doing anything *legal* to maximize their position; it's no different in some ways than people with millions in the bank who "engineer" low incomes to get large ACA subsidies. The proper place to register indignance is with the folks who wrote the rules, IMO, not the people properly applying the law to their advantage (he says, not inviting a political discussion here).