We bought a new car last week!

[Gary 1958]

Driving 7K/yr & $2 gas, the cost of a hybrid will never payout, impressive or not.

I'm curious because I've never had a car that can pay for itself. Please explain how any car will ever pay for itself?

 

[jazz4cash]

I'm curious because I've never had a car that can pay for itself. Please explain how any car will ever pay for itself?

I assume the post you cited is a reference to people that pay more for a hybrid because the additional cost will be offset by the fuel savings. Even with cheap gas the payback requires driving a certain number of miles. I guess saying an item will pay for itself is just the turn of a phrase.

 

[MoPops]

We have 3 Toyotas, and sometimes I wonder if we will ever need to replace any of them. (04, 10, and a 2012)
Basic maintenance and they run forever.
I am liking the idea of a hybrid more and more. But the only one we would consider getting rid of is my lovely wife’s 04 Landcruiser. She will never part with it. It does get horrible gas mileage, but she drives it about 5-8,000 miles a year.

 

[PointBreeze]

ya think $2 gas will be around forever? Good luck with that! Driving cheap wasn't my goal......driving efficiently was.

 

[NoMoreJob]

I just report what we spend from our accounts each year which is a pretty consistent round number. We do not draw SS yet or have pensions. I've never been questioned but if I were I could easily justify that as a sustainable withdrawal rate.

Congrats on the Camry....we had one years ago and it was a great car.

 

[rayvt]

I have been curious about this also. Did they verify income, or just run a credit check? I have been hesitant to give anyone our income and so we have always just paid cash. But with the 0% rates now... have to consider since DH will buy a new truck next year.

They just ask for your income, have never verified it for us. They mostly depend on your credit report.

We have been retired for 10+ years and whenever asked, on a car loan or credit card or whatever, I say our income is $120,000. Nobody has blinked an eye, nobody has asked for verification.

 

[RobLJ]

I have a Bolt and a 2017 4x4 Silverado.
I'm not thinking either will "pay for itself" although the Bolt versus a Chevy Tahoe would be interesting, I suppose.
I probably missed something in this interesting "controversy."

Walking or taking the Reno bus probably would "pay for itself" I suppose, but it wouldn't get me up to Spooner Summit Sunday to hike.

A Hummer, I'm sure, will "pay for itself" under some interesting calculus versus the Bolt, which I reject out of hand. And no, a Chevy Tahoe, would not be "cheaper" than a Bolt. Maybe my Silverado.
Sorry. (I like the Silverado but I'm not doing the cost analysis of it versus the Bolt. Sorry. Nor should you.)

I'm curious because I've never had a car that can pay for itself. Please explain how any car will ever pay for itself?

 

[RobLJ]

Since you seem to be a bit bewildered. The Bolt is getting 4.2 miles per kwh. If I were buying from the grid it would be .09 c per kwh. (I bought solar panels, so it is nothing but whatthehell).

Basically, compared to the Subaru Forester, the Bolt is........................
anywhere from 4-8X more efficient.

Bolt 250 miles (/4.2 mpkwh X .09) = $5.4
Forester 250 miles (/22mpg *3$ per gallon) = $34.
Forester takes supreme gas. It has gone down to 2.75 and up to 3.50.
So, you can do the "calculus" all you want. We put in solar panels last year, so the 9c/kwh might go up or down. Right now, it's way down.

So, the Bolt is so much cheaper than the Forester per mile, so much it's ludicrous. Admittedly, we sold the Forrester before we were facing major service (drive chain, etc) at about 1500$. Oh, the Bolt will cost about 50$ in another 4k miles to check the...... fluids.

Note: I don't think anyone should do what we did. But with the addition of the Bolt plus the Silverado, we pretty much can go off-road wherever we want to go and drive very cheaply elsewhere around Reno.

YMMV.

Unless some group decides to raise gas taxes a lot, yes I do think gas price will stay low. Folks like you driving hybrids & more electric cars & more working from home should keep gasoline demand & thus prices in that range for the foreseeable future.

Not sure what you mean by driving efficiently. Fuel costs/mileage, or total cost/mile driven? In my case, keeping vehicle investment down is the best overall cost efficiency. My car lease will be up in 6 months & I'm switching to a $!5K lower cost vehicle.

 

[Sunset]

They just ask for your income, have never verified it for us. They mostly depend on your credit report.

We have been retired for 10+ years and whenever asked, on a car loan or credit card or whatever, I say our income is $120,000. Nobody has blinked an eye, nobody has asked for verification.

You and I have the same income

 

[Sunset]

Congratulations. I've owned Toyotas for the last 25 years and been very satisfied with their reliability - which is very important to me.

They keep going on forever with minimal expenses.

Yes, DW owns a 23 yr old Toyota, and refuses to buy a new one as they are ugly

 

[Live Large]

New Car or Blow that dough?

Ya think $2 gas will be around forever? Good luck with that! Driving cheap wasn't my goal......driving efficiently was.

Congrats on your new car! Definitely hope you are enjoying the ride immensely. Appears U balanced purchase with your ER income so Why Not!

We all know cars are not equity builders unless it’s the rare collections type - 1976 Toyota Corona $700
in 1988 sold $1000 after 3yrs driving 1989 Toyota truck 2x4 new drove 200k miles 10yrs sold now DW
2016 Toyo 4Runner acquired 2018 drive till it stops.

I’m thinking of buying a 911 myself...lol. Read that ER net worth continues to grow for many you’re income $120k Toyota lot less than Porsche

It would seems so many are content with leaving their savings behind especially cash savings but I’m ok spending ~enough assets left to boost heirs.

Did I say Porsche? I’ll also keep the Benz
I like these discussions helps Me to enjoy myself
Can Afford too so why Not...

 

[Closet_Gamer]

Enjoy the new wheels!

 

[pb4uski]

I'm curious because I've never had a car that can pay for itself. Please explain how any car will ever pay for itself?

They don't pay for themselves.... but 5-year cost of ownership is a typical metric of overall cost and it seems to me that the 5-year cost of ownership of a hybrid that is not driven much will be very high compared to the gas version.

So that is a hurdle for those for whom cost is an important aspect. For others, the environmental benefits of a hybrid is worth the additional cost.

To each their own.... its their money. FWIW, the 5-year cost of ownership are similar based on 15k miles a year, I suspect that the gas version 5-year cost of ownership is less than the hybrid version based on 7k miles a year.

 

[someguy]

I'm not sure about current models, but in the past the hybrid model Camry often had options that were an upgrade on the comparable ICE version, bringing the initial price close to parity.

If you are a buy and drive it into the ground type, I suspect the hybrid would pan out, even in low mileage situations, because the lower fuel cost would have time to catch up. Some maintenance items are lower too -- pretty easy to get 100K+ miles on hybrid's brakes.

They don't pay for themselves.... but 5-year cost of ownership is a typical metric of overall cost and it seems to me that the 5-year cost of ownership of a hybrid that is not driven much will be very high compared to the gas version.

So that is a hurdle for those for whom cost is an important aspect. For others, the environmental benefits of a hybrid is worth the additional cost.

To each their own.... its their money. FWIW, the 5-year cost of ownership are similar based on 15k miles a year, I suspect that the gas version 5-year cost of ownership is less than the hybrid version based on 7k miles a year.

 

[Chuckanut]

They don't pay for themselves.... but 5-year cost of ownership is a typical metric of overall cost and it seems to me that the 5-year cost of ownership of a hybrid that is not driven much will be very high compared to the gas version.

So that is a hurdle for those for whom cost is an important aspect. For others, the environmental benefits of a hybrid is worth the additional cost.

To each their own.... its their money. FWIW, the 5-year cost of ownership are similar based on 15k miles a year, I suspect that the gas version 5-year cost of ownership is less than the hybrid version based on 7k miles a year.

The other advantage of a hybrid is the driving range. My 2012 Camry could go over 600 miles on a tank. The newer ones get better mileage than the 2012 but also have a smaller tank so the range may not be more. My RAV4 Hybrid goes well over 550 miles on a full tank. I imagine that people who need that kind of range probably drive much more than 10,000 miles a year so the hybrid makes more sense.

 

[Mmm Rrr]

I just brought a 2021 Honda Insight EX home, trading in my 2006 Subaru Outback with failing head gasket! I've just moved from a climate with heavy winter snow to the coast - I enjoyed the Subaru's winter handling but shouldn't need it anymore.

I test drove a Hyundai Ioniq, a Toyota Prius, and the various levels of Insight. The Honda was significantly nicer, both to drive and in interior quality and features. The EX is rated at 55 mpg in the city which will probably be most of the driving I will do. It has a 10.6 gallon tank so I should be able to drive over 500 miles between fill ups.

 

[lewp56]

Long Legs As Well

I really like the Toyota vehicles except for one major problem. The center console is too wide and my very long legs don't have enough room to safely fit in the Camry. Looking at pictures I assume I also will not be able to fit in the Rav4 Prime which is the vehicle I would like to buy over the Camry since I live in snow country. I know the Camry hybrid is a great car(if you can fit in it) and you should enjoy it for many years. Good luck

I had the same issue and spoke with my trusted car mechanic 2 months ago. Have a Camry for my DW but needed/wanted new car for me at pre-retirement. Mechanic recommended a Mazda CX 5 and my legs fit perfectly. only disappointment is there is no inside counsel rear lid opener and during rain/snow to open hatch it has to be from outside. Rides wonderfully, great safety features and really good looking vehicle. Just my 2 cents

 

[srpuywa]

I boight a 2020 Tundra Crewmax as my retirement vehicle- feel great when I get 18-19 MPG on the highway --- ha ha ha

 

[pb4uski]

The other advantage of a hybrid is the driving range. My 2012 Camry could go over 600 miles on a tank. The newer ones get better mileage than the 2012 but also have a smaller tank so the range may not be more. My RAV4 Hybrid goes well over 550 miles on a full tank....

Driving range is not a particular benefit since no matter what, DW has to stop every 3 hours to pee. Besides, even I have to stop to pee every 450 miles or so.

 

[Perryinva]

While efficiency is nice, can’t say I ever bought a car based on it. Use and overall cost plus desire and enjoyment always factored in more. To each their own. I found I always had a use for a small truck, as I was always renovating something. Bought a ‘99 Dodge Dakota Sport Cab plus for $4000 in 2007w/89k miles on it from original owner. Still have it, with 180k on it, and yes, it paid for itself, as I used it for work often and was paid mileage & never had to rent a truck for projects. I’ve done all maintenance on it and most all repairs, none major. It only gets 18mpg. I probably only use it once every 2 weeks now, but since it cost about $25/month to own at this point, it makes little sense to sell it for the $1000 I could easily get for it.

On the other spectrum, I bought an ‘02 Carrera in 2008 with 30k miles on it for $32k. If I had to pay to have all the work I’ve done on it, it would be considered by many a money pit. Porsche Mechanics are stupid expensive. I’ve done all but one repair (many pre-emptive since so many known issues have reasonable DIY solutions) myself, but you have to be a “like to do the grease under the fingernails” kind of work kind of guy. I thoroughly enjoy driving that car, and it has no real practical value but fun. With 63k miles in it, the cost per mile ownership is far higher but for me, well worth it. I’d be glad to get $25k for it if I wanted to sell it.

Not everything is owned for a good ROI.

 

[rk911]

While efficiency is nice, can’t say I ever bought a car based on it. Use and overall cost plus desire and enjoyment always factored in more. To each their own...
...Not everything is owned for a good ROI.

totally agree. we were never concerned with MPG. when first married like others we gravitated to "cool" (mustangs, capris). later it was what was practical for that stage of life (mini-vans). now it's jeeps to flat tow behind our motorhome...cool and practical! an EV or hybrid doesn't interest us at all. may not have to buy gas but the energy to power them comes from somewhere and they can't be flat towed.

we keep our cars for ~15 years or so alternating turns to buy every 7-8 years. my '03 wrangler is a bit overdue for replacement but it only has ~110,000 registered miles + another ~30,000 towed miles on it but the chassis is starting to rust so i may start looking. it's my turn to buy. my wife's '10 liberty has ~75,000 registered miles + another ~45,000 towed miles on it and looking brand new. at some point we'll be a one car family but hopefully not too soon.

 

[Oakster]

Enjoy your new purchase! I think it would be fun to own a hybrid. I can imagine trying to tweak the last mpg possible out of it. I'd be watching the dials and gages, trying to figure the best driving style to get maybe 50 or even 60 mpg out of it. Even on my 2012 (not hybrid) I watch the "instantaneous" and "average" mileage gage and try to improve my "style." I get 25 mpg on my SUV - virtually all "city."

Having said that. I JUST filled up the tank (of ONE of our 2 cars.) Last time for both was in late February or early March. Tank got down to half, so I figured I'd better fillerup. I don't think I could justify buying a new car at this point in my life - even when Covid 19 is in the rear view mirror. BUT, if I DID buy a new car, I think I'd get a C8 Corvette! How's that for a non sequitur? YMMV (literally!)

Tweak the most fuel economy? Fuel is meant to be burned. Tweak the most horsepower and performance out of it!

 

[ShokWaveRider]

We have never purchased a car because of the fuel economy, probably never will, and now Diesels are out of favour in the USA it is even more remote.

 

[LRDave]

Driving range is not a particular benefit since no matter what, DW has to stop every 3 hours to pee. Besides, even I have to stop to pee every 450 miles or so.

Us olduns ought to stop and stretch and walk a bit every 3 hours or so anyway. Sitting in a car (or anywhere!) for long stretches at a time is just not good for you.

 

[gerntz]

I'm curious because I've never had a car that can pay for itself. Please explain how any car will ever pay for itself?

Why asking me? I never said a car would, just the hybrid upcharge wouldn't.

For me it's a matter of minimizing loss while accomplishing the goals - transportation convenience, safety & comfort. Gasoline power vs. hybrid or electric at my mileage does that by a goodly amount.