What does "enough" mean to you?

[street]

I never thought of retiring until my wife ask me why don't I retire. LOL I looked into it ran numbers and finally found this site and the rest is history.

I guess for me with a lot of soul searching my conclusion was I should of invested better and I would of had a LOT more wealth if I would of done that. In the end it really didn't matter because I had more then I could ever spend. No need to keep working I would of added maybe another 150K to my wealth with a couple more years of work. That wasn't worth it to me.

I have been retired for 20 months and which I would have done it sooner.

 

[Lawrence of Suburbia]

Enough is 90% of what a sensible person in my position would need.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

I invented goals and created emergencies to keep things interesting.

I am doing exactly this- I signed myself up for a difficult degree/designation to distract myself from the chaos at work. I can at least control my studies, and it gives me something to shoot for. Megacorp has set new goals for us, and at the end of my career, I feel no pressure to achieve Mega's goals anymore. And being fired is no longer much of a threat, as we could live on 3% of our current portfolio.

I began taking Fridays off which helped immensely with the stress, but I still dread Mondays and pacify myself with travel. (Cabo in 16 days- Yipee!) I have enough now, but DH who grew up poor, is having a hard time envisioning early retirement. He keeps raising our numbers as we hit them, but he's welcome to keep working if he likes. I'm done in 2 years.

 

[dunkelblau]

My approach is different, I don't have passive income, I keep a combination of cash and stocks as speculations. The cash portion can cover living expenses at my current rate for the rest of my life if it keeps up with inflation (and SS and 401k RMDs are icing). I've kept the same standard of living since I was in college so I think I'm locked in for life. My stock specs are based on what I like, these gains and losses won't move my living standard but will affect my mood. My idea of 'enough' is a few good trades per year, net.

As for how I keep risk under control, it's by position size. My bets haven't scaled up over time, instead what has grown is number of positions, i.e. diversification (aka sprawl). Each 4Q I harvest the losers, take some winners to balance it out, and let the rest ride. I stay motivated to follow my own rules by occasionally reading stories about people who lost it and wiped out, like this one: Isaac Newton Learned About Financial Gravity the Hard Way | Jason Zweig

As for slowing down, I know I'll have to over time because my trading depends on having a clear head which may not last many more years. Right now I'm thinking of gradually hiring it out; this might be something you can try as well.

 

[medved]

My “enough” number keeps going up, as I accumulate more. That’s not a good thing — especially as we are fortunate to have much more than most people would call “enough.” But I’m risk averse and always worrying about “what if...”

To avoid my doing OMY forever, I set an arbitrary date of 12-31-2020. On that date - which will be 30 years with the same company - I’m done. I needed to set an arbitrary date in order to protect me from my own OMY instincts.

To the OP: my advice would be to diversify beyond RE, don’t hang it up at 37, and don’t assume you will be happy living on $85k a year for the next 50 years. Inflation could be a real issue (don’t fall victim to recent bias there), and kids can be extremely expensive.

 

[Goblue1972]

at 37 - I would be concerned about how a potential negative inflationary scenario for you living on $85,000 could impact you. add in kids - I would highly encourage you to consider to continue to look to deploy capital in the real estate space. I would stay away from commercial and keep to what you know. it sounds like you are investing in rental real estate that is managed by someone else? if so - thats great. I've been retired for 3 years and required $250k after tax to live. and despite being retired and have a portfolio that generate nearly $400k after tax - I - like you - continue to invest in passive real estate (only residential) investments. I prefer this risk return tradeoff when compared to putting new money into stocks at this point in the cycle or bonds where one could envision the end of the Long bull market in bonds. just my 15 cents. keep at it.

 

[Surewhitey]

So I feel I have enough, but am in a conundrum at the moment. DW wanted to go back full time at Mega-corp and starts in two weeks. The good, we both get 5 weeks PTO, I have a good direct report and a huge shop with tools (like a CNC router table) that are "all mine" for one of my hobbies.

On the numbers, we're at around 30x expenses at age 47 & 53. We also took off 3 years to test the ER waters and did enjoy it, so my personal goal is somewhere 3-5 years from now. Also, we're able to sock away appx. $120-150k annually for the next few years. Expecting our multiple of expenses to get to 40x or more by the time comes.

I will eventually spend more time with DGD (just under 2 years and lives down the street) and would like to increase my volunteering as well, so I'd like to work into it over time. We'll see how it goes...

We, as a couple, live in a large city and the past 2 years all in live on appx. $43k. Kids are not as expensive if you keep it simple, public schools, community college then state school, then marriage for ours. All in with a car to boot I'd swag a $100k tops for everything. Obviously many here may scoff at that #, but our daughter turned out just fine climbing the ladder just like their kids. $85k would be enough IMO, but the healthcare thing would intimidate me a little at the moment, at your age. I agree on the comments on diversifying your income stream, btw.

 

[Dash man]

My body told me I had enough. Couldn’t deal with the physical pain of sitting in front of a computer anymore. Fortunately our FA said we had enough so we could retire comfortably (~$180,000/yr). DW wasn’t ready and worked three more years, so we are even more comfortable financially. We bought two beach houses, one for snowbird use and one for summer rental with a few weeks of personal use. Even after a major remodel of the Florida condo and repairs to the Jersey Shore house, we’re able to give to our church and charities, help the boys and save for grandchildren’s college. We also enjoy cruising, including two weeks in the Baltic Sea last summer. I’ve also pretty much given up trying to do repairs or improvements myself. So much easier to pay someone else to do it right the first time.

 

[Aerides]

Our "enough" number was based on "this is how much we spend per year without really trying to budget, buying what we want, traveling a bit, and not restricting ourselves beyond our normal reasonable instincts".

Then take that number, factor in post-RE taxes and HI, pad it for comfort, and x25. So that's a number to support a 4% wd that's commonly talked about, but then add more padding depending how early you want to retire...so then we moved the needle up a bit from there to our comfort level, to bring it a bit under 3.5%. For a long time we had our target number based on all that.

Then we got about there, and OMY'd due to circumstances (DH got to go PT, I was hanging around for severance), and in reality RE'd with a number about 20% higher than we had been planning to hit initially.

That's good, because DH is more of a worrier than I am, and his number would always have been higher than mine. But being married in RE to someone worried about every dollar going out would NOT be fun! So that's where you also factor in your personal risk appetites.

 

[Lawrence of Suburbia]

I've only got about 15x my living expenses. Never thought of it that way, really, because of course S.S. will change the equation when the time comes -- it's probably more like 27x once S.S. kicks in, if you see what I mean.

 

[Finance Dave]

We were "nose to the grindstone" early in life....I did all my degrees at night school and thus took me 12 years of college (but MegaCorp paid for it all so no loan debt). I mention this because we didn't do much travelling and it severely limited our hobby development during that period. As a result, we now want to spend a lot more (both time and money) on leisure activities. This has driven up our annual spending and thus our savings goals for FIRE.

So...I say look at what you want your life to be like, estimate the spending to get there, and back into a FIRE number from that.

I too own rentals, and do about 60% of the work myself (no way I'm roofing a house LOL). I enjoy fixing things right (I'm a licensed home inspector) and doing it myself ensures it's done right (trust me, during my home inspections I see a lot of mistakes and shoddy work done by "professionals"). Rentals are great income if you have the stomach for all the tenant behavior issues.

Keep moving forward and good luck with your ventures!

 

[Danmar]

We were "nose to the grindstone" early in life....I did all my degrees at night school and thus took me 12 years of college (but MegaCorp paid for it all so no loan debt). I mention this because we didn't do much travelling and it severely limited our hobby development during that period. As a result, we now want to spend a lot more (both time and money) on leisure activities. This has driven up our annual spending and thus our savings goals for FIRE.

So...I say look at what you want your life to be like, estimate the spending to get there, and back into a FIRE number from that.
!

Interesting. I also had my “nose to the grindstone” early in life. All my post secondary education was part time at night. Took me about 11 years (till age 29) and I ended up with a BA, CPA, and MBA. Employer paid for some and I worked full time throughout. Didn’t have much time for fun or leisure activities during these years. Making up for it in retirement.

 

[l8_apex]

Like the OP, a big part of my retirement income is from rentals. Initially I figured that $2k/mo above and beyond all of my bare minimum costs (taxes, utilities, food, clothes, insurance, etc.) would be enough. Later that changed to $3k/mo. Then in the last couple of years pre-retirement the local real estate market ramped way up, so I ended up having over $5k/mo above my required expenses.

That 'feels' adequate/good/more-than-enough to me, but of course that's totally personal.

To the OP - if your income is all from rentals, have you thought about diversifying so that you're not wholly dependent on rentals?

 

[HFWR]

I had enough when I could afford alcohol, drugs, and escorts, and have some left over for frivolous stuff, like food...

 

[captain picard]

To everybody who has offered a response, a hearty THANK YOU! It's so encouraging to hear from other like-minded people forgive the late response but I was out of town.

To fill in a few gaps for those who have asked various questions:

1. I will not have more than one child, unless the first attempt results in twins (planning a vasectomy appointment the moment I see ten fingers and ten toes).

2. My wife works and is very content to do so. She earns about $50,000 and will earn a little more each year as she progresses throughout her career. When she's eligible for retirement in 23 years at age 55 (which I will insist upon because we won't need anymore money at that point and I want to enjoy a long retirement with her) she will likely have a state pension of about $42,000. This, in addition to whatever real estate income I have at that point (likely to be higher than I have today) should theoretically provide a comfortable retirement for both of us. This is true even if I decide to stop buying properties sooner rather than later.

3. I have almost zero debt, except for a small mortgage on our primary residence (about $90,000) which I only keep because the interest rate is 2.9%.

4. I'd like my child to have an affluent upbringing, but only in matters that relate directly to their education and growth (e.g. lessons, activities, improvements and not foolishness like new cars and ski trips).


I'm very grateful for your opinions. Thanks again!

 

[Finance Dave]

To everybody who has offered a response, a hearty THANK YOU! It's so encouraging to hear from other like-minded people forgive the late response but I was out of town.

To fill in a few gaps for those who have asked various questions:

1. I will not have more than one child, unless the first attempt results in twins (planning a vasectomy appointment the moment I see ten fingers and ten toes).

2. My wife works and is very content to do so. She earns about $50,000 and will earn a little more each year as she progresses throughout her career. When she's eligible for retirement in 23 years at age 55 (which I will insist upon because we won't need anymore money at that point and I want to enjoy a long retirement with her) she will likely have a state pension of about $42,000. This, in addition to whatever real estate income I have at that point (likely to be higher than I have today) should theoretically provide a comfortable retirement for both of us. This is true even if I decide to stop buying properties sooner rather than later.

3. I have almost zero debt, except for a small mortgage on our primary residence (about $90,000) which I only keep because the interest rate is 2.9%.

4. I'd like my child to have an affluent upbringing, but only in matters that relate directly to their education and growth (e.g. lessons, activities, improvements and not foolishness like new cars and ski trips).


I'm very grateful for your opinions. Thanks again!

Just be cautious. I don't want to be a downer, but many unexpected things can happen in 20+ years. It's good to plan for the long-term, but just remain flexible to changing your plans. Many marriages result in divorce, severe illnesses/deaths/disabilities do happen, and so on.

Had I tried 25 years ago to predict how my life would play out, I would have been wrong about a good many things.

It's admirable that you're thinking about it when you are young though. I started saving for retirement when I was 18...one of the smartest things I've ever done.

 

[captain picard]

Great advice!

While I'm not a Pollyanna by any means, I do tend to think of my marriage as the best tactical decision I've ever made--in addition to enjoying the company of my wife, of course. We dated and lived together for six years before marrying, had serious and laborious discussions about finances, family, and work beforehand. I've had some good and bad luck in my life, but my marriage the only aspect of it that has been completely without conflict. She is unpretentious, non-desirous, and adorably content with her lot in life (which is like the opposite of me). The only thing she's missing is a screaming infant and the indescribable "joy" of motherhood.

I do realize that illness, difficult children, or financial reversals could affect this happy status. I'm choosing to believe/hope that our co-operation over the past eleven years is a harbinger of good things to come.

But I'm also a cautious man, so I have several contingency plans should the proverbial $hit hit the fan down the road. Pre-nups and attorneys are punchlines until you actually need them!

 

[medved]

When you wrote that you will “insist” that your wife retire at 55, my reaction was “that guy sure has a different kind of marriage than I do.” I could never “insist” that my wife retire at some particular age — nor could she insist that I do so. But it sounds like you guys have a marriage that works well, and that’s what counts.

 

[captain picard]

When you wrote that you will “insist” that your wife retire at 55, my reaction was “that guy sure has a different kind of marriage than I do.” I could never “insist” that my wife retire at some particular age — nor could she insist that I do so. But it sounds like you guys have a marriage that works well, and that’s what counts.

Lol, well it's not a hard insistence-- she can certainly work longer if she can't live without the structure. My "insistence" would mostly be based on the fact that she's the type of generous soul that always wants to help others. This is reflected in the extra tasks and responsibilities she shoulders in her job as a teacher.

I suppose there are worse things than having a selfless wife My hope is that what she enjoys now at age 32 will be tedious at age 55 (except certain husband-wife sort of stuff, of course)!

 

[timemoveson]

"4. I'd like my child to have an affluent upbringing, but only in matters that relate directly to their education and growth (e.g. lessons, activities, improvements and not foolishness like new cars and ski trips)."

Good perspectives on what you hope for. However, there is nothing foolish about skiing. I had to call you on that one.

 

[GravitySucks]

When you wrote that you will “insist” that your wife retire at 55, my reaction was “that guy sure has a different kind of marriage than I do.” I could never “insist” that my wife retire at some particular age — nor could she insist that I do so. But it sounds like you guys have a marriage that works well, and that’s what counts.

I used to insist my wife do all sorts of things. And she'd do it too... If she wanted too. [emoji1]

 

[Danmar]

"4. I'd like my child to have an affluent upbringing, but only in matters that relate directly to their education and growth (e.g. lessons, activities, improvements and not foolishness like new cars and ski trips)."

Good perspectives on what you hope for. However, there is nothing foolish about skiing. I had to call you on that one.

I thought the same thing. Skiing is a wonderful family activity. Young kids love it and get quite good very fast. Tough for the parents to keep up sometimes.

 

[gwraigty]

Enough is when our assets produce more than enough passive income to replace W2 income. This should allow for continued annual increases in passive income and assets over time.

 

[racy]

I thought the same thing. Skiing is a wonderful family activity. Young kids love it and get quite good very fast. Tough for the parents to keep up sometimes.

+1 I recently enjoyed watching a video of one of our family snow ski trips back in the early 90's. Priceless...

 

[poppydog]

I used to insist my wife do all sorts of things. And she'd do it too... If she wanted too. [emoji1]

When my wife wants my opinion on something she’ll give it to me!