What does it mean to be a professional?

[youbet]

I was just joking....

One of the non-negotiable requirements of being a so-called "professional" is they can never get that.

 

[youbet]

Simon and Garfunkel had something to say about "professionals."

Asking only workman's wages
I come looking for a job
But I get no offers
Just a come-on from the whores
On Seventh Avenue

PE's, doc's, lawyers, widget benders, whores........ all "professionals." Who cares? Isn't it all the same thing?

 

[Al in Ohio]

I would say that a "profession" typically has specialized knowledge, typically reflected in specific education and training requirements, including some sort of governmental licensure barrier to entry, which serves to limit the numbers in that profession. There are also usually professional organizations (membership in which is often mandatory) that set and uphold standards of conduct in the profession, violation of which can lead to removal from the profession. Many, if not most, professions have a distinct vocabulary related to their particular area of expertise that is not readily understandable to outsiders. Also, many professionals tend to internalize their profession as part of their identity. Finally, I think that for many professions there is an expectation, by both those in the profession and those outside, that the members of the profession have some enhanced responsibility to the common weal/public good.

I don't see this list as either exhaustive or exclusive, but these are the characteristics that I observe most professions to have in common.

This. Well said. Most if not all professionals have some sort of licensure to indicate they understand all the standards and expectations of the profession. Hence CPA, PE, MD, RN, LNP, etc. So a salesperson or the mailman for instance is not licensed and does not have a professional position. They are of the standard working class. In previous centuries these distinct differences were more apparent and noted. Most people have no idea anymore much about any of these things.

 

[MC Rider]

A professional does not complain to the client or anyone but their peers about problems and headaches with work. They suck it up and do a professional job.
Or at least, that's what I do.

 

[Koolau]

A professional does not complain to the client or anyone but their peers about problems and headaches with work. They suck it up and do a professional job.
Or at least, that's what I do.

Hmmm. I know some professional complainers! It's all they do. One such was a PhD. What a waste of professional credentials. YMMV

 

[EastWest Gal]

I guess that I was thinking of this thread as referring to people engaged in a "profession" as being "professional".

Artists, musicians, dancers, athletes, etc technically are professionals if they are being paid to play... but I would not consider those to be a "profession".

Is teaching a profession? Perhaps, but not as widely recognized as a profession as doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, etc. I'm not sure how many people would think of teaching as a profession... I can see it either way.

Does it all make any difference... I think not.

It takes a skill set to perform all those occupations. Teaching requires a degree and credentialling, as well as a license. I see teaching as a profession, always have. And in colleges and universities, the teachers are called professors. You can’t get more professional than that!

 

[pb4uski]

... And in colleges and universities, the teachers are called professors. You can’t get more professional than that!

I don't know if I'd necessarily hang my hat on that analogy, because the next logical conclusion is that other school teachers are not professionals because they aren't called professors. I'm not saying that's the case it's just I wouldn't go with analogy that you tried to use.

 

[Al in Ohio]

It takes a skill set to perform all those occupations. Teaching requires a degree and credentialling, as well as a license. I see teaching as a profession, always have. And in colleges and universities, the teachers are called professors. You can’t get more professional than that!

Found this info from an old source :

A quick way to determine if a job is considered a professional one is the level of learning required. If the job customarily requires a bachelor's, master's degree or Ph.D., and involves certification or licensure it's considered a professional job. Professional jobs include:

teachers
doctors/surgeons/dentists
accountants
lawyers
engineers
architects
designers
chemists
editors
scientists
registered nurses

 

[Badger]

So according to some here if you don't have a license then you are not a professional. According to that belief then I guess that means my barber is a professional along with teachers/professors, realtors, contractors, electricians, plumbers, nurses, doctors, etc. They all are required to be licensed along with engineers.

I guess since I am retired I can't be a professional anymore. But wait. I have a drivers license. Maybe I am a professional driver.


Cheers!

 

[ShokWaveRider]

If I remember when the subject first came up it was related to one's neighborhood.

"Neighbors being Professionals", take it one step further as to realtors describing homes as being "Executive Homes". "An Area/community/development of Executive Homes". Builders do it all the time.

This UN-justifiably points to the fact that Executives and Professionals can afford more expensive homes.

Well roll on 2021. Most homes in nicer areas are expensive. Pretty much anything over $500k is expensive in our books. Not all residents of > or = to $500k are Judges, Lawyers and Indian Chiefs anymore. So I think the subject is somewhat moot.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Oye. Words are defined and easily researched but it seems as though that's forgotten.

Professional:

1. relating to a job that requires special education, training, or skill
2. one or given by a person who works in a particular profession
3. paid to participate in a sport or activity

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/professional

 

[braumeister]

Oye. Words are defined and easily researched but it seems as though that's forgotten.

The lexicological battle between prescriptivists and descriptivists has been going on for centuries.

Lexicographer: A writer of dictionaries; a harmless drudge that busies himself in tracing the original, and detailing the signification of words.

-- Samuel Johnson, 1755

 

[Al in Ohio]

So according to some here if you don't have a license then you are not a professional. According to that belief then I guess that means my barber is a professional along with teachers/professors, realtors, contractors, electricians, plumbers, nurses, doctors, etc. They all are required to be licensed along with engineers.

I guess since I am retired I can't be a professional anymore. But wait. I have a drivers license. Maybe I am a professional driver.


Cheers!

Not same class of certification. “Professional” License comes with other qualifications besides experience, namely an accredited four year degree at a college institution.

 

[travelover]

The definition is simple. Professionals are better than other people and having the title allows us to look down on our inferiors.


Sniff.

 

[kgtest]

Not same class of certification. “Professional” License comes with other qualifications besides experience, namely an accredited four year degree at a college institution.

I don't have a degree. I am an engineering "manager" at a fortune 30 company. I earn more than many of my peers my age including everyone in my immediate family and my extended family. I act professional in my business and personal life most of the time. I have licenses and certifications and will add I have some completed accredited college coursework but just never added up to a college degree of any form. I am also a veteran of the armed services. Am I a professional? Or am I not because I never got that college diploma? I am also owner and CEO for not one but two successful businesses and on the side own income properties.

Bill Gates never finished college. Is he a professional?

 

[aja8888]

One thing for sure...politicians are not professionals (what does that tell you?)

 

[ShokWaveRider]

One thing for sure...politicians are not professionals (what does that tell you?)

Not Professional (No "s"), agreed. But some are actually Lawyers and doctors so in fact they are by definition Professionals.

 

[aja8888]

Not Professional (No "s"), agreed. But some are actually Lawyers and doctors so in fact they are by definition Professionals.

They have left those professions to become a "public official". They are not practicing anymore.

 

[Koolau]

Heh, heh, call me anything (except late to dinner) but pay me the money! YMMV

 

[Al in Ohio]

I don't have a degree. I am an engineering "manager" at a fortune 30 company. I earn more than many of my peers my age including everyone in my immediate family and my extended family. I act professional in my business and personal life most of the time. I have licenses and certifications and will add I have some completed accredited college coursework but just never added up to a college degree of any form. I am also a veteran of the armed services. Am I a professional? Or am I not because I never got that college diploma? I am also owner and CEO for not one but two successful businesses and on the side own income properties.

Bill Gates never finished college. Is he a professional?

The answer is no to both. And you can’t use the word “Engineer” in any job title unless you are a 4 year graduate in an engineering program from an accredited college. Engineer’s are professionals, hence P.E. Certification. Sanitation Engineer for instance is not a legal nor professional title.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

The answer is no to both. And you can’t use the word “Engineer” in any job title unless you are a 4 year graduate in an engineering program from an accredited college. Engineer’s are professionals, hence P.E. Certification. Sanitation Engineer for instance is not a legal nor professional title.

What does a six-year masters make you? An Executive? All subjective, if you have money, you are an Executive/Professional, if not, you are a pleb.

 

[MC Rider]

What about Casey Jones?
Driving that train.........

 

[aja8888]

I'm an engineer with an MBA who is retired. I've been called all kinds of names over the course of my career!

 

[kgtest]

The answer is no to both. And you can’t use the word “Engineer” in any job title unless you are a 4 year graduate in an engineering program from an accredited college. Engineer’s are professionals, hence P.E. Certification. Sanitation Engineer for instance is not a legal nor professional title.

The job I interviewed for multiple times in my career had "Engineer' in the title, even HR labelled it that in there job "coding". Are they wrong as well?

Al, I will say, a lot of organizations nowadays ask for four year degree (Or equivalent experience). I guess I am a little confused on why an Engineer must be synonymous with a four year degree. I don't feel that train of thought is always accurate.

 

[Al in Ohio]

The job I interviewed for multiple times in my career had "Engineer' in the title, even HR labelled it that in there job "coding". Are they wrong as well?



Al, I will say, a lot of organizations nowadays ask for four year degree (Or equivalent experience). I guess I am a little confused on why an Engineer must be synonymous with a four year degree. I don't feel that train of thought is always accurate.

Each State Professional Engineering association as well the National Society of Professional Engineers has a copyright on the term "ENGINEER" in the job title. They require a standard (4-year min BS in an accredited approved engineering college program AND to pass an 8 hour test with a 75 or higher score AND then work as a agreed engineer for a minimum of 5 years UNDER direct supervision of a registered PE and THEN pass another full 8 hour test with a minimum of 75% correct score. then you walk the aisle and get certified as a LICENSED professional engineer. Prior to passing the last test they are officially just an “Engineer” if they accomplished everything else except the last test. No one else can use the term engineer. If they do it’s simply as illegal as Joe Shmoe using the title medical doctor.



IF anyone used the title "ENGINEER" as any word in a job title without having done the above both the individual and the COMPANY involved can be sued and fined. Someone just needs to rat them out.