Will and Property

[kgtest]

I know, hire a lawyer. But I understand there is both tangible (Real property, such as real estate, land, and buildings. Cash, including money in checking accounts, savings accounts, and money market accounts)

and intangible property (stocks, bonds, and other forms of business ownership, as well as intellectual property, royalties, patents, and copyrights, etc) to bequest in one's will.

How do you will your wedding ring?
Your grandfather's flag from the war?
Your automobiles like that muscle car or that beater rust bucket?
Your clothing? True story I head someone wearing there dead parent's clothes...I guess you know that old rock concert tee you attended together but your t shirt is ruined... but their jeans


I am torn, I think things can be defined as:
"keep it in the family heirloom box" or
"keep it if you want but donate at will"

Which of course also ventures into that "dictating from the grave" thinking...

I mean stocks/bonds/real property like housing real estate business etc seems like a no brainer, leave it to surviving spouse and/or divide up with kids/grandkids...
if no kids, donate somewhere, but where? I know enter Estate Planner/ Trustees...

I mean that's the only way right?

To complicate things, this will is really to protect your heirs, your finances, litigation, and you heirs risk of litigation regarding assets...

So who do you trust to dispense the assets (executor co/exec)to the kiddos or whomever? Your bro? Your aunt? Your folks who are old?

We've been putting this on the back burner. I have like a half will.

 

[joeea]

So who do you trust to dispense the assets (executor co/exec)to the kiddos or whomever? Your bro? Your aunt? Your folks who are old?

We've been putting this on the back burner. I have like a half will.

My sons are co-executors and sole beneficiaries. They will decide, unless I decide beforehand.

If I had family heirlooms (none so far), I would disburse them before death if I could. Everything else will likely be sold and the proceeds disbursed. If they choose a different path once we are gone, that's fine too.

Don't put your will on the back burner. Without one, the state will make decisions for you.

 

[Sunset]

At all banks and brokerage accounts possible, I assign TOD/POD (Transfer on Death, or Pay on Death). This keeps these things out of a WILL, so no probate needed.

physical property like buildings, land, are in the WILL, and will need to be probated.

 

[Gill]

As for tangible personal property, I believe all states allow what is known as a separate writing. Your will states that "I devise all my tangible personal property as described in a separate writing executed after the execution of this will". You then simply prepare a list of items such as "my college ring to my son, George", sign and date the writing and file it with your will. The beauty of this is you can change it any time without requiring a new will.
Gill

 

[Bamaman]

Our daughter is on our checking accounts and safety deposit box. She's also a secondary beneficiary on our IRA Rollover account. My wife is primary beneficiary on my 401K and I am her 401k primary beneficiary.

The first to die in our situation will not require to have the will probated. It's the last to die (in the marriage) that will require probating of the will because of real estate ownership.

After all, probate is where a judge gives authorization to the executor of a will the right to sign to transfer assets of the deceased. And of course, the judge wants to verify that all liabilities, including all taxes, have been paid. The judge doesn't want creditors to clog up the courts with lawsuits against the estate for nonpayment.

Someone that has sold their real estate and lived their last days in apartments, assisted living or nursing homes often don't have to have the will probated if their business is kept simple.

 

[CardsFan]

At all banks and brokerage accounts possible, I assign TOD/POD (Transfer on Death, or Pay on Death). This keeps these things out of a WILL, so no probate needed.

physical property like buildings, land, are in the WILL, and will need to be probated.

Bold by me. This depends on your state. In ours, both real estate and autos can have a TOD/POD.

The will is there to basically make it clear that all the other "stuff" goes to DS (and most probably to Goodwill)

We have little in the way of collectibles and jewelry, but those would be covered as well.

Get the will. For nothing more than piece of mind.

 

[target2019]

As for tangible personal property, I believe all states allow what is known as a separate writing. Your will states that "I devise all my tangible personal property as described in a separate writing executed after the execution of this will". You then simply prepare a list of items such as "my college ring to my son, George", sign and date the writing and file it with your will. The beauty of this is you can change it any time without requiring a new will.

F-I-L did this. Worked fine.

Follow up question: Widow wants to sell Tesla. Title is in his name...

 

[CardsFan]

F-I-L did this. Worked fine.

Follow up question: Widow wants to sell Tesla. Title is in his name...

Well, first, title it in both names. Second check you state laws regarding TOD/POD. In MO, a car can be transferred this way.

 

[gwraigty]

F-I-L did this. Worked fine.

Follow up question: Widow wants to sell Tesla. Title is in his name...

Well, first, title it in both names. Second check you state laws regarding TOD/POD. In MO, a car can be transferred this way.

If a widow, then the FIL is already deceased. State law may allow the widow to take title to the car, no probate needed.

 

[OldShooter]

For small items, whether they have economic value or not, I have heard of a few ways via DW, who was in the trusts & estates business at a megabank. Note that "small items" can include things like 4 wheelers, tools, sports equipment, appliances, guns, etc. It is not just tchotchkes.

1. A list, as mentioned.

2. A piece of tape on the bottom of small items, with the name of the beneficiary.

3. A round-robin where all beneficiaries choose items in sequence until everything that is wanted is distributed, then the rest goes to an estate sale or charity. In taking turns picking items, the economic value of the item is not considered. The "pickers" can be specified, one per child/family, all descendents individually, or whatever the donor chooses.

Or, of course, a combination.

And, yes, @kgtest, you do need a lawyer who is an expert in trusts & estates.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

Real estate is easy, so are bank and investment accounts. Talk to your lawyer.

Personal property can start a family fight like no other. I'd suggest giving it away while you're alive. Hand it right to the person who you want to get it when you're gone and you'll enjoy it more than ever.

 

[FIREchief]

At all banks and brokerage accounts possible, I assign TOD/POD (Transfer on Death, or Pay on Death). This keeps these things out of a WILL, so no probate needed.

physical property like buildings, land, are in the WILL, and will need to be probated.

How will your executor pay for insurance, utilities, maintenance, taxes, etc. on the real estate while the estate is settled?

 

[Scrapr]

F-I-L did this. Worked fine.

Follow up question: Widow wants to sell Tesla. Title is in his name...

When Mrs Scrapr passed just needed to take a death cert to DMV and title was changed. It was only a few dollars. Title changed to my name only. Got the new title surprisingly fast. Like about a week

 

[Brat]

With all the talk in Oregon and Washington about earthquake risk, my mind wanders to my sibling and her husband who live on the OR coast but high on a hill. Let me assure you that her siblings are not in their will. Their estate is substantial. What happens if they are killed in the predicted tsunami? I hope their attorney as a copy of the will and that they have PODs on their accounts, but.... think about the Bahamians and their estate planning.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

As for tangible personal property, I believe all states allow what is known as a separate writing. Your will states that "I devise all my tangible personal property as described in a separate writing executed after the execution of this will". You then simply prepare a list of items such as "my college ring to my son, George", sign and date the writing and file it with your will. The beauty of this is you can change it any time without requiring a new will.
Gill

That works in most states, but not mine: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/using-personal-property-memorandum-with-your-will.html


Luckily, I am an only child, and we have only one child. My partner has a brother, but BIL has zero sentimentality, and we would of course offer to deduct the fair market price of any items we wanted from partner's half of the estate's assets.

 

[target2019]

When Mrs Scrapr passed just needed to take a death cert to DMV and title was changed. It was only a few dollars. Title changed to my name only. Got the new title surprisingly fast. Like about a week

I found state help page on this.
Since wife was not on title, she can drive car for 30 days. Then the auto passes into the estate, and there are a handful of requirements to complete.

Obviously, it is better to have both names on the title in this state.

 

[Backpacker]

For small items, whether they have economic value or not, I have heard of a few ways via DW, who was in the trusts & estates business at a megabank. Note that "small items" can include things like 4 wheelers, tools, sports equipment, appliances, guns, etc. It is not just tchotchkes.

1. A list, as mentioned.

2. A piece of tape on the bottom of small items, with the name of the beneficiary.

3. A round-robin where all beneficiaries choose items in sequence until everything that is wanted is distributed, then the rest goes to an estate sale or charity. In taking turns picking items, the economic value of the item is not considered. The "pickers" can be specified, one per child/family, all descendents individually, or whatever the donor chooses.

Or, of course, a combination.

And, yes, @kgtest, you do need a lawyer who is an expert in trusts & estates.

My FIL hired an auction company, family was all invited to attend and let the bidding sort it out.

 

[kgtest]

Good info folks. Exactly what I needed to get 3/4 done lol. The last part is having that second set of atty eyes look at it. I know DW work offers something but you need to plan to signup for the service before the new year so it becomes "active".

Just trying to prepare ourselves. The tougher part for us was sort of answering the question "Who will take the kids, god forbid".

We asked BIL and SIL if they would take on that duty to which they said yes.

I have enough life insurance, investments are solid and I don't really have too much "property". Eventually I will title both properties to the kgtest and mrs kgtest trust. For now, everything is simply in my name...DW wanted it that way. IRAs are all setup for DW as beneficiary and she has her setup for me as beneficiary. A lot of this information is written down and printed out...but I wanted to sort of double check before actually going to the atty to make it all official Skimmed but I'll try to respond soon.

 

[kgtest]

When Mrs Scrapr passed just needed to take a death cert to DMV and title was changed. It was only a few dollars. Title changed to my name only. Got the new title surprisingly fast. Like about a week

Interesting.

 

[Scrapr]

I found state help page on this.
Since wife was not on title, she can drive car for 30 days. Then the auto passes into the estate, and there are a handful of requirements to complete.

Obviously, it is better to have both names on the title in this state.

The problem with both names on the title is if one of the names passes then how you can sell the car if needed. Our situation was more complicated as we each had cars, plus one for our child plus one more that was ordered but not completed before she passed. I was selling cars faster than Krisel Brothers

https://youtu.be/YR0PQD-7BLw

 

[rk911]

...
How do you will your wedding ring?
Your grandfather's flag from the war?
Your automobiles like that muscle car or that beater rust bucket?
Your clothing? True story I head someone wearing there dead parent's clothes...I guess you know that old rock concert tee you attended together but your t shirt is ruined... but their jeans ...

IMO it's quite simple. we defined certain items of property in our estate that are to go to certain people...our antique floor radios, pieces of jewelry, our father's service flags, etc. it's not complicated.

 

[kgtest]

IMO it's quite simple. we defined certain items of property in our estate that are to go to certain people...our antique floor radios, pieces of jewelry, our father's service flags, etc. it's not complicated.

It isn't. Really the complicated part was asking someone to take that huge responsibility of both being trustee and also caregiver etc...

Property is fairly simple but I wanted others input. In all intents and purposes our will, will be updated throughout time as circumstances change...

We are having a third kid, so it's really pusing me to just get the first one done, notarized and official.

Of course the whole purpose is to avoid probate, the time and money that comes with that. Right now even without a will, we are "somewhat" protected in terms of financial liabilities, but the PoA etc needs to be filed soon! In reality that is just me and DW for eachother...and our kids. So once we have a name for third baby!

 

[kgtest]

Leads me to the next question, if mom is pregnant..is there some transition risk if she dies giving birth? I mean obviously we plan to get this all in order before then. Our 2nd came into this world on a "transfusion acknowledgement order" along with a "in this Hospital we resuscitate at all cost regardless of your desires and written agreements ". That one surprised me, but I want my wife and baby alive at all costs so her and I were happy to sign that waiver. Thankfully they did not need to be executed.

 

[OldShooter]

... Of course the whole purpose is to avoid probate, the time and money that comes with that. ...

With respect, I think that is a very poor statement of purpose. IMO the "whole purpose" is to develop, document, and implement an estate plan that meets your needs and desires.

Whether there is probate involved is simply an implementation detail. If probate is necessary to have the best plan, so be it. If it is not, fine. Do not let this tail wag the estate planning dog.

Leads me to the next question, if mom is pregnant..is there some transition risk if she dies giving birth? ...

If your documents are prepared competently, the answer is "No." A good attorney will discuss many contingencies with you during the course of preparing your plan. Another is "common disaster" where you and DW are both killed. Our wills include language like this: "In the event both simultaneously perish in a common disaster, the husband shall be considered to have predeceased the wife." This means that the first-to-die's estate plan will be implemented first, followed by the second-to-die's plan. Nice and neat, where it might not be if the deaths were considered to have been simultaneous.

"Common disaster" is maybe the most important planning issue where there are minor children. What will happen to your children? How is the money they inherit to be distributed and managed? This is where there might be consideration of a professionally-managed trust. Etc... etc.

 

[Finance Dave]

I didn't read all responses so I'm sorry if duplicated.

We just went through our estate docs for the 3rd time....we are 57/61. We struggled with many of the same things. My pieces of advice are:

1) In the will just make the bequest...i.e. "I bequest my musclecar to Joe" or "I bequest my wedding ring to Phyllis". Then, you can have a separate letter that is not part of the actual will that your executor will have access to that can "explain" things more. For example, it might say "Joe, you helped me work on that car every weekend for 2 years, and I appreciated that. I want you to have it. But if you don't have room to store it or money to insure it, just sell it or do what you want with it."

2) Make some sort of allowance for pets. We have a Sheltie and no family who likes dogs. We found a person who rescues Sheltie's and got verbal agreement he would take her. We put his info in the will, and bequeathed him a few thousand dollars for care for the animal.

3) Put as much property as you can into beneficiary status...as beneficiaries take precedence over dispositions in a will and make it easier for everyone. This is mostly your bank accounts, IRAs, etc.

4) Leave many other documents for your executor.
a) list of passwords to key accounts/websites.
b) Locations of key documents...do you have a PO box? Safe combination? Etc.
c) Funeral instructions
d) List of accounts (we used an Excel spreadsheet) showing balances as of xx/xx/xx,
contact names for each company, account numbers, etc.
e) If you own any businesses, make sure your operating agreement spells out what
to do in the event of your death. I own rental properties in an LLC...and I want
my wife to be able to make decisions such as sell them should I die...so I put this
in the operating agreement.
f) Obituary
g) Key contacts (who do you want to know that you've died?)


I'm sure I forgot a few, but you get the idea. Our info is all in a binder that has a clear label stating "If I die" on the spine, and I showed my executor (my brother) where it's at so he can easily find it. Of course I also gave my brother a copy. My physician has a copy of our health care proxies also. Make sure you list who has your documents so that when you update them 10 years from now you can collect them from anyone...avoid wrong copies floating around.

Good luck and thank goodness you are doing this now....it has given us tremendous peace of mind.