Would u retire if u have health insurance??

[Enuff2Eat]

sorry, if this question posted already?? DW and I thought about this all of the time. We know friends and families whom are more worrying about being sick then finding foods and mortgage...

welcome, to the USA... (jk)

enuff

 

[Helena]

Health insurance as we know it is less
than 70 years old... what did Americans
do for the first 160 years ?

 

[Texas Proud]

Health insurance as we know it is less
than 70 years old... what did Americans
do for the first 160 years ?

Died...

 

[maddythebeagle]

Insurance=having a house full of kids....

 

[CuppaJoe]

Health insurance as we know it is less
than 70 years old... what did Americans
do for the first 160 years ?

They took pride in "saving for their final illness" and often left a bundle to their heirs.

 

[Sam]

Health insurance as we know it is less
than 70 years old... what did Americans
do for the first 160 years ?

Good point. But let's also look at the present time too. At least half of the world population does not know what health insurance is.

Back to the original question.

enuff, no, I would not retire unless I can afford health insurance. But not neccessarily health insurance in the USA. I would also consider self insured when appropriate, location wise.

Paul Terhorst said in a recent interview with the Kaderlis that as far as health insurance and tort system are concerned, the USA is the most dangerous place to live in.

I can see "legal insurance" becoming popular in the near future.

 

[Arif]

enuff, no, I would not retire unless I can afford health insurance. But not neccessarily health insurance in the USA. I would also consider self insured when appropriate, location wise.

Paul Terhorst said in a recent interview with the Kaderlis that as far as health insurance and tort system are concerned, the USA is the most dangerous place to live in.

Before we left the Army I inquired about COBRA for me (32), wife (33) and son (3) at the time and they said it would be $600 per month. When we got to Panama similar coverage costs $150 per month with a $1000 deductable.
Put another way I would need an additional 180k in our portfolio to make those $600/mo pmts vs. $45k for the same coverage in Panama. Each visit to the doctor costs about $25 and some doctors charge an additional $20 for home visits.
So there are other options than going without health insurance if you're willing to move.

 

[2B]

The reason people "need" heath insurance now is the cost of treatment, and possible cure, for conditions that were poorly understood and almost always fatal 100 years ago.

Heath insurance began as a union benefit and was considered, at the time, to not be a large expense for the company. How things have changed.

Heath insurance is a major factor in my retirement planning. I wonder if all of the politicos falling all over themselves to deliver universal heath care realize the tidal wave of early retirees it will cause.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I'm starting to think that retiring without some reasonably priced health plan is going to be a problem for an ER.

We often talk about how the stock market plunging right after someone retires is the biggest obstacle. Seems health care might be as bad.

The total tally for 3 months of health care since my wifes new employer screwed up our eligibility, including 2 months of cobra, a month of HMO coverage, three doctor visits, and our prescription drugs is roughly $5300. I'll get some of that...about $500-700...back from the cobra provider IF I can get all the medical billers to send me the paperwork that BC/BS requires, and IF they actually pay the claims.


After this its about $300/mo out of pocket for coverage, $25 an office visit, and $20 for meds.

Pretty expensive screw-up...

 

[2B]

I'm starting to think that retiring without some reasonably priced health plan is going to be a problem for an ER.

I'm starting to think I've been grossly over-estimating your intelligence.

I've been looking into my likely fate in the Texas High Risk Pool. You must have an individual policy for each person. The premiums to cover both of us for the 55 - 59 age group would be $1083/month. That gives us each a $5,000 deductible. After the deductible, we pay 20% until we spend another $3,000.

Just the insurance with nothing covered will be $12,996/year. All told, we could spend $28,996 for medical care in any given year.

That's a major factor in my retirement economics. That's also why Texas has the most uninsured people in the country.

Every state is different and Texas has the most "insurance company friendly" law on the books. Individuals can not "band together" for group rates except through an employer. The insurance companies can cherry pick the low risk individuals. Most of us older types are relegated instantly to the high risk pool.

I am just starting to explore the heath options in other states.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I'm starting to think I've been grossly over-estimating your intelligence.

Happens all the time.

 

[maddythebeagle]

Maybe a lot of folks will end up moving to MA and the upper midwest and the like for their subsidized programs....of course, government workers and a folks with a working spouse, have it worked out, too.

 

[Webzter]

So, my employer offers an HSA or a "traditional" plan. I've been on the traditional plan but I've been thinking for a while now that I should jump to the HSA.

Starting to feel more like it after this thread.

 

[2B]

So, my employer offers an HSA or a "traditional" plan. I've been on the traditional plan but I've been thinking for a while now that I should jump to the HSA.

My employer has both but the choice for anyone but the chronically ill is the High Deductible. The "traditional" 250 deductible plan costs about $4,500/year for a family. Without counting copays, the plan has a maximum out of pocket of $1,000. Copays go on forever on the plan. The High Deductible Plan has zero out of pocket cost for the insurance but $2,200 deductible. After that it's 20% until the family hits a total out of pocket of $10,000 (including deductible). There are no copays so everything counts.

On a year to year basis, there's less than a $4,500 risk if a serious amount of medical care is needed. How much less depends on the amount of copays. I barely met my deductible last year so I'm saving a few thousand per year. As long as my expenses are less than around $7,000 per year, I'll come out ahead.

 

[mikex]

Heath insurance is a major factor in my retirement planning. I wonder if all of the politicos falling all over themselves to deliver universal heath care realize the tidal wave of early retirees it will cause.

Yea the only thing keeping me from quitting right now is health insurance. I need to get a good estimate of the costs before I quit. If I had coverage automatically, shoot, I'd be in tall cotton, no worries.

 

[W2R]

sorry, if this question posted already?? DW and I thought about this all of the time. We know friends and families whom are more worrying about being sick then finding foods and mortgage...

welcome, to the USA... (jk)

enuff

Actually, yes - - I would probably retire right now if I had health insurance. I will qualify for lifetime medical in a couple of years and I am waiting until then to retire. Otherwise, I might retire now.

But you know what? That would be an awful decision. If I retired now I would have enough to live from month to month, but I would not have much capability to deal with the unexpected, and I could afford very little spending beyond the necessities. So I am glad (gritting my teeth to say this) that I have to work another two years.

Oh, yes. GLAD...

 

[JustMeUC]

Hello Everyone, this is my first post so please don't be too upset with my post.

I have very mixed feelings about Health Insurance.

I feel on one hand that some of the insurance costs today are due to malpractice insurance being so out of hand, but on the other hand I feel that we are just flat out spending too much PER PERSON on health care.

My mother is 64, she has been fighting Terminal Cancer for 8 years. Her Insurance Company has spend well over one million on her. Her life has been a struggle and much pain these last 3 years especially. I have to say she has very low quality of life. But, she is a fighter and wants to continue on with Chemo as long as she can. She gets it every 3 weeks. She has been for for almost a year. I love my mother very very much but hate to see her suffer so much. The chemo is prolonging her life perhaps but at what cost?

One of my co-workers just past the 5 million mark on her son and she had to go to new employment to get new insurance as she hit the max on ours. Her son was born with a very severe heart defect and she and her husband were told when he was born that he had less than 1% chance of survival if they did not take him to the Cleveland clinic for immediate surgery. They did. They also were told that he had very little chance of a normal life and would constantly be having surgery. He has had at least 20 so far and he is 9 years old. He is a sweet little boy but he can't run and play and be a normal child. He will probably not make it out of his teens.

It is very hard to know what you would do in these situations. My mom always said if she got cancer that she wouldn't have chemo. But when the time came she did and she is going to fight to the end. My parents had good executive level jobs and worked hard all their lives so they could enjoy their retirement. Instead, they can hardly go anywhere or do anything because my mom is too tired. She is out of bed for maybe and hour a day now. They tried to go to Hawaii last year and ended up coming home after 2 weeks because it was just too much for her. I wish they had taken more time when they were younger.

I don't know what my point is exactly, just that when we spend millions of dollars on ONE person, then of course insurance premiums are going to be outrageous. How can it not be?

I have pretty much come to the conclusion that I would rather retire a little bit earlier and enjoy my life as much as possible and if cancer or heart disease or whatever hits me than so be it. I might not get needed treatment but guess what, if I do work to 65 and retire with health insurance there is still NO GUARANTEE that I will get to enjoy myself.

Does this long rambling post make sense to anyone?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Of course it does. Statistically the majority of health care dollars are spent in the last year or so of peoples lives...which by definition means they didnt recover.

Much of the rest is eaten up by bureaucracy and profits.

Honestly...as a percentage lawsuits, illegal aliens and all the other hot button issues that excite people are such small pieces of the health care cost pie that they're almost irrelevant.

 

[pedorrero]

Yes, recently heard on a radio show (Maybe NPR) that some studies place administrative costs at up to 1/3 of the total health care costs of the USA.

A more fair system (socialized?) might reduce care to the terminal or end-of-life cases (except comfort care or pain -killers). In theory, the resources saved could go to provide care to healthier people. It'd be nice to live in a world where a 12-year-old boy did not die from complications of an untreated dental problem (happened recently in Washington DC). Given the USA's crappy health care system, don't hold your breath.

 

[Sam]

Makes sense to me, JustMeUC.

 

[Caroline]

...in a heartbeat.

 

[chinaco]

Of course it does. Statistically the majority of health care dollars are spent in the last year or so of peoples lives...which by definition means they didnt recover.

Much of the rest is eaten up by bureaucracy and profits.

Honestly...as a percentage lawsuits, illegal aliens and all the other hot button issues that excite people are such small pieces of the health care cost pie that they're almost irrelevant.

Well stated.

Although, the Illegal alien part is huge also. There are 12MM of them. That is a population of 6-7% of the total. Not minor. This is made up just to show an example: If the avg cost for each one of them costs the govt and hospital, doctors, medical community $2000 (unpaid bill or freebie) That is $24 B. Think about the cost of a mother going to the hospital for a pregnancy (very expensive). Or an accident or injury. The cost is the GDP of many countries.

And most of those end of life cases will apply to that 12MM of non-tax paying Illegals. You cannot deport someone in extremely bad health (near the end of life).

 

[Enuff2Eat]

Worry Sick about Health Insurance

i talked to a friend of a family from CANADA and i am started to think National Health Care in the US is NOT gonna work either.

She told me the corruption, abuse, misuse, ... are unbelievable. For example, everyone REFUSED to buy of-the-shelf pills like tylenol, advid... why, just because if they go to the doctor they get it prescribe and for free. she also mentioned that a headache, a stupid cough people would go the emergency room, again free...

don't know the details but i can imagine the abuse going on there, also she mentioned doctor there prescribed drugs to patients that are not really sick then these people take the drugs and send it to someone else for a fee or for free...

bla, bla,... i am just worry about health insurance caused i heard number 2 bankruptcy in the US is related to illness.

enuff

 

[lets-retire]

To answer the original question, the cost of health insurance for my wife has essentially taken early retirement off my plate. There is no way I could even come close to the required savings level to be able to afford insurance for her and retire early, so early retirement is not an option. With that said, I still prefer the current system to one run by or paid for by the government.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Well stated.

Although, the Illegal alien part is huge also. There are 12MM of them. That is a population of 6-7% of the total. Not minor.

Not really on topic, but I guess I opened the can of worms...

Its hard to nail down the real stats, since we know neither how many illegal aliens there really are, nor do we know how much unpaid healthcare they consume, since there isnt a checkbox on the hospital admittance form "I am an illegal alien and I wont be paying my bill today".

That having been said, prior to all the politicization of the illegal alien situation, the department of homeland security estimated the number of illegal aliens at 5M. SG had a post about 2 years ago that cited numerous credible sources that all more or less came down to the same number. Somehow that jumped to 12M. When I see stuff like this, I tend to believe the original, lower, non politically charged number.

A quote from another 2 year old post where I rounded up the details available.

Salaryguru provides some good data.

1. SG points out with good sources that the approximate number of undocumented illegal aliens is ~5M.
2. There are approximately 45M americans without health care (DeNavas-Walt, C., B. Proctor, and R. J. Mills. Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2003. U.S. Census Bureau., August 2004.)
3. The US spends approximately $100B in care for the uninsured. (Institute of Medicine. Hidden Costs, Values Lost: Uninsurance in America. The National Academies Press. 17 June 2003 .)
4. About $34B of that $100B per year is uncompensated/unpaid (same source as above)
5. Another $37B of that $100B is paid by private and public payers of health care for the uninsured. For those who havent ever heard this, an enormous amount of money is available in grants and other programs for the uninsured. My mother in law, a charge nurse, made us all aware of this when she found grants to cover a car accident for my uninsured brother in law...paid all of his bills for free. ($37B number from same source as above)
6. Another $26B is paid out of pocket by the uninsured.

So if we make several presumptions:
- Citizens and documented aliens dont go to the hospital more often than undocumented aliens, and vice versa; I think this is generous since I think undocumented aliens are far less likely to go to a hospital.
- A hospital stay and/or emergency room treatment for a documented alien or citizen is no more or less costly than for an undocumented alien, which I think is also reasonable.

That makes uninsured, uncompensated losses at $34B, spread across the 45 million uninsured and the 5 million illegal aliens. Simple math given the above constraints says 1/10th of the cost is borne by illegal aliens, making this a $3.4B problem.

That makes the unreimbursed illegal alien healthcare problem 3.4% of the total uninsured healthcare "problem". Which is in the vicinity of statistical drift, lost in the noise.

If you care to argue that illegal aliens visit hospitals more often and/or cost more per visit than US citizens, please factor in that as many as 82 million...as much as 1/3 of the US population...spent at least part of 2002 or 2003 without health insurance for some period. See the same US census report above as source for this data.

As overall healthcare in the US reached 1.7 trillion and is estimated at 1.8 trillion in 2004 (3. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, Office of the Actuary, National Health Statistics Group; and U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of Economic Analysis and Bureau of the Census) the uninsured costs are a notable problem, but unreimbursed illegal alien healthcare costs become reduced in stature to incredibly irrelevant.