Car Maintenance Rant

[Big_Hitter]

It would come to about $300. Is this worth attempting on my own?

I've done a few front and rear o2 sensors. How handy are you?

 

[Bamaman]

An O2 sensor looks like a spark plug with a wire hanging out of it. You remove them with a slotted socket--but otherwise it's like changing a spark plug.

You do have to make sure you're changing the right sensor--often told to you by the OBDII code on a scanner. They can be expensive little parts.

And be sure to put antiseize grease on the threads of the new sensor.

 

[ArkTinkerer]

Google has made it easy to find out what is wrong with your car. Youtube has made it much easier to see what is involved fixing it. Most jobs can be done in under 2 hours with simple hand tools. The auto parts stores almost all have loaner tools for specialized jobs. You do pay a deposit based on the value of the tool--its like they figured people would buy and return the tool for a one time job so they just went with it! Thing is if there are multiple possible causes for an error code you can probably fix all of them yourself for less than the cost of one at the shop. And you would be surprised how often the shops do the same thing!

 

[jerome len]

the key word in car repair and maintenance is trust. A dealer has to earn it.

Cars, today, need less maintenance then a few years ago but it is much more expensive. The price of parts has gone up, labor rates have gone up and one of the reasons I like a new car every 3 or 4 years is the factory warranty......and, many dealers include all maintenance on a lease....so, I haven't paid a dime to my dealer (leased cars) in years.
Next, get a quote before you leave your car and then ask for the old parts when you have parts replaced. Years ago I got screwed by a private mechanic.....then found out that he had been fired by a Lincoln dealership for padding labor hours. So, doesn't matter if it's a dealership or private, get a company you can trust. And, I would go to the dealer.....they know about all the recalls.....they have the factory required shop equipment and my guess is the majority of them are honest....at least in my experience.

 

[Car-Guy]

The only time I'd ever take one of my vehicles to a dealership is for warranty (free) repairs. Heck, they even offer free oil changes and tire rotations for the first 30,000 miles on new vehicles and I won't take them in for that either. I did try that once. I made an appointment, drove the 60 mile round trip, got there on time, and wait a little over 4 hours to have the oil changed and tires rotated. Never again.

 

[imoldernu]

Look for one who has a reputation for being a) honest and b) competent.

Yeah...
Looks like he's been drinking... no wonder!
The guy on the left is the shop owner... telling his wife... "That's the guy who came into my shop yesterday."

 

[soupcxan]

Another reason to avoid the American car brands.

 

[Big_Hitter]

An O2 sensor looks like a spark plug with a wire hanging out of it. You remove them with a slotted socket--but otherwise it's like changing a spark plug.

You do have to make sure you're changing the right sensor--often told to you by the OBDII code on a scanner. They can be expensive little parts.

And be sure to put antiseize grease on the threads of the new sensor.

correct - scoobs, for example, have front and rear o2 sensors

 

[Big_Hitter]

we have a few "tuning" shops in town that compete with the Subaru dealership so that forces the dealership to be price competitive with the local shops - we're lucky in that regard I guess

 

[imoldernu]

RE: the O2 sensor...
Not always... expensive to replace. If the OBDC throws a code 0171 or 0174... (common in V8's), it may well be a dirty MAF sensor.
This happens in my car every 3 or 4 hundred miles, or when the car has been idling for a long time. I just reset the system and it's good til the next time... sometimes a few months.
A Cadillac Northstar engine (1996) that still gives me 28 mpg on trips. Been doing this since 2004. Dealer had estimated a $2600 catalytic converter back in 2006.

No matter the manufacturer, if you Google for Kia, Ford, Chevrolet, Datsun etc, etc forums, you'll certainly find an active forum that invites service questions, no matter how strange or complex... and almost always frequented by guys who really know their stuff.

When you go to a dealer, the diagnosis and service is only as good as the one or two guys who are working there. When you go to the car forums, it's the benefit provided by hundreds of guys who have been there and done that. My Cadillac forum is almost as busy as ER... and so far, have always been right. Simple... car year, model, and brief description of the problem.

The diagnostic on-board-diagnostic reader is a good investment. OBD2 reader available for $40 to $60... The good thing about these readers, is that you can look up the code, and know exactly what the problem may be. For many of the codes, the service suggestion may be unnecessary, but you can only tell this, if you know what the numbers mean. Dealerships will often point out a reading and suggest expensive repairs, even though the code may not be urgent, or necessary for another 10,000 miles.

My next door neighbor took her 2011 MKZ in every 90 days for an oil change and inspection because the dealer recommended this. $55 a visit. When she passed away in 2014, the car had a total of 4200 miles on the odometer.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

correct - scoobs, for example, have front and rear o2 sensors

All cars built in 1996 and later (and some 1995s) have two oxygen sensors for each catalytic converter. V8s and some V6s have four of them. But the downstream sensors go bad far less often than the upstream ones.

 

[John Galt III]

The Nissan dealer is always trying to get my GF to change her *in cabin air filter* for $60, when she comes in for her oil changes. Once they even removed it, to show her how dirty it was. She called me up to ask my advice and of course I told her not to have it replaced (because $60 for that simple job is a ripoff). It's a 5 minute job, which I did for her myself. I think the filter was $12 at Advance Auto, and my hour searching Youtube and 15 minutes of labor were free. The dealership front desk guys really are sc*mbags, unfortunately. But I have found some very knowledgeable mechanics there sometimes, by just walking up and asking a question or two. I'd never have the actual work done there though, since the scumb*gs at the front desk would ruin it somehow.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

No matter the manufacturer, if you Google for Kia, Ford, Chevrolet, Datsun etc, etc forums, you'll certainly find an active forum that invites service questions, no matter how strange or complex... and almost always frequented by guys who really know their stuff.

Online forums are great. I'm currently trying to sort out a rough shift on my MiL's 2000 Honda Accord. I signed up at Honda-Tech.com, posted a question and got an answer from an active member within a couple hours. Some of the most active forum members are professional Honda mechanics! Just try to talk directly to a tech at the dealership.

Unfortunately, in the case of the Honda, it seems that the transmissions from this period are prone to early failure if not maintained to the letter. So much for Honda's "bulletproof" reputation.

 

[target2019]

It's the upstream O2 sensor. Bosch 15380. $75-100 or so.
2007-2012 Nissan Versa Air/Fuel Ratio and O2 Sensor Location | Nissanhelp.com
Good picture there. I can do it. We'll see.
Need right wrench. might go this smooth.

Does the code clear automatically?

 

[Big_Hitter]

It's the upstream O2 sensor. Bosch 15380. $75-100 or so.
2007-2012 Nissan Versa Air/Fuel Ratio and O2 Sensor Location | Nissanhelp.com
Good picture there. I can do it. We'll see.
Need right wrench. might go this smooth.

Does the code clear automatically?

disconnect the neg battery terminal and step on the brake a few times, that will clear it then you will need to do thru a driving cycle to completely get it out of the system


yeah basically you just screw it into the exhaust - if you keep getting a code you may need a new cat or you can just get a MIL eliminator which is a resistor you splice into the sensor. As long as you don't have to do a sniff test (i.e. put it on a dyno) you will pass emissions with the MIL eliminator and a visible cat.

 

[aja8888]

I have been a member of the TDIClub (VW diesel forum) for 10 years now. It's exclusively for people who own VW diesels and has a worldwide membership of around 100,000 registered members (10,000 active). The site has an extensive database of "how to's" for maintaining and upgrading the various diesel models going back to the 1990s. The database includes recall information and TSB's (technical service bulletins), some of which the VW dealers don't have. The U.S. and Canadian members are very active and not only provide technical advice but also hold annual and periodic regional meetings with members for a workshop event kind of gathering.

There is absolutely noting that can happen to my diesel that I can't get technical advice on within minutes of posting in the forum. Also, the site has a list, by state, of "Trusted Mechanics", individual shops that are reliable and have been evaluated by local members.

You won't find one VW dealership service department listed on the Trusted Mechanic's list.

 

[Big_Hitter]

www.nasioc.com - primarly for WRX/STI subarus
www.subaruforester.org - for fozzies

 

[tulak]

An O2 sensor could be as easy as unscrewing it and replacing it. But, getting access may be difficult and it may be corroded and hard to get off. Check Youtube for the DIY on your car.

+1. YouTube/Internet is your friend. I replace the O2 sensor on my Toyota Sienna and it was easy. I was lucky though since it was easy to access the sensor. There are other sensors on the Sienna that are much harder to access.

Do a little research and then you can see if it's worth doing it yourself or taking it into the shop.

 

[ArkTinkerer]

One hint for stuck bolts or O2 sensors--Time can be your friend. Spray with something like PB Blaster. Let it sit overnight. Drive it. Spray it again. The time and the heat/cool cycles help the oil to penetrate the threads. Makes it a lot easier to break loose.

The Ford engine in our Navigator (same as some F150s) was notorious for having spark plugs seize and break off during service. The cost for spark plug replacement was priced in several hundred $ range and they usually expected at least one spark plug to break. While you have to remove some covers to get to the plugs, I did that about a week before I planned to change them so I could put some PB Blaster on them. Sealed it up and wound up driving for two weeks before I could get to doing the job. Every one came out without much trouble.

Advice after taking them out is to make sure you put anti-seize on the threads when you put them back in! Commonly overlooked by DIY types.

 

[mystang52]

Another reason to avoid the American car brands.

My experience is that this happens across the board. I had a Lincoln ES years ago, and was never impressed with the dealer's service. This was especially the case when our window opener needed a third replacement. The first 2 were under warranty, the third was some 1000 miles beyond warranty and they would not give me a break.

We now own a Lexus and Audi. Their prices for non-warranty work are likewise sky-high, and they do push unnecessary services.

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

Another reason to avoid the American car brands.

Bad advice. Almost all of the dealerships operate the same way.

 

[target2019]

Bad advice. Almost all of the dealerships operate the same way.

Toyota and Honda dealers in our area are the same. Complete rip-off. Too many examples to list specifics.

 

[HF63]

I do most of the work on my cars and some family cars. I recently change a thermostat on a Audi A-4, the dealer wanted ~ 700 dollars because the intake manifold needs to come out. Volkswagen thermostat comes in a housing made of plastic which gets brittle over time. S60 Volvo ~ 2004, the housing includes the thermostat plus the temperature sensor. You can not just replace one item.
My friend recently work on a Cadillac in which the starter was below or inside the intake manifold. It took him about 7 hours from start to finish!!

 

[Walt34]

My friend recently work on a Cadillac in which the starter was below or inside the intake manifold. It took him about 7 hours from start to finish!!

That's amazing, but I believe it. Friend of ours had a Prius and to replace a headlight bulb he had to take the bumper and fender off!

Engineers who design stuff like that should be taken out and shot.

 

[Nunthewiser]

There is absolutely noting that can happen to my diesel that I can't get technical advice on within minutes of posting in the forum.

Ditto here, except I am still messing around with the older IDI VW and Mercedes diesels that have absolutely no electronics. SWMBO is finally getting around to getting a new car that I won't be able to do much with (giving up her 380SL)