CBS 60min - U.S. Heading For Financial Trouble?

[Martha]

"The private sector could provide most (if not all) of these services and more efficiently than any bureaucracy."

Hmmm... let's take roads for example:

Roads -- Funded by "the socialists"
Railroads -- Funded by the private sector

Which would you view as more successful?

Sort of off the topic, but even though railroads are private, they used the government to acquire the property for the railroad lines. There would be no railroads or roads without the power of the government to condemn.

 

[FinanceDude]

Sort of off the topic, but even though railroads are private, they used the government to acquire the property for the railroad lines. There would be no railroads or roads without the power of the government to condemn.

Maybe we need a thread on "eminent domain", perhaps the most powerful tool the US govt has used in the past..........

 

[FinanceDude]

but the current administration passed the biggest unfunded liability every in the history of our country... the prescription drug bill..... this will cost us TRILLIONS of dollars.. kind of makes the Iraq war look puny...

Agree.........whatever happened to fiscal conservastism, am I the last one?

 

[MasterBlaster]

To suggest that

Roads -- are Funded by "the socialists"
Railroads -- are Funded by the private sector

just shows the ignorance that abounds.

 

[FinanceDude]

To suggest that

Roads -- are Funded by "the socialists"
Railroads -- are Funded by the private sector

just shows the ignorance that abounds.

Interesting, I wonder why Congress supports Amtrak as a budget item even though Amtrak loses about $300-$400 million a year??

 

[Rick S]

...sorry...
I should have said that Railroads were originally primarily funded by the private sector.
.. which is why they are in such trouble today.

(I'm not that ignorant... and don't appreciate name calling).

 

[MasterBlaster]

Rick S:

You need to go read the history of the railroads

 

[Rick S]

Fine... you've said it in a nicer way....

OK... everyone who's not for George W is clearly a socialist.
Happy now?

 

[FinanceDude]

...sorry...
I should have said that Railroads were originally primarily funded by the private sector.
.. which is why they are in such trouble today.

(I'm not that ignorant... and don't appreciate name calling).

More of a "government grabbing the land" and "financial robber barons using foreign labor as expendable human sacrifice" than a nice and tidy partnership of equals........

Where's Diamond Jim Brady to sort this all out for us??

 

[kcowan]

Give me a choice. The private sector could provide most (if not all) of these services and more efficiently than any bureaucracy. ..

I can see it now:
911:
My house is in fire, please send the firemen!
Which fire service do you use sir?
Acme Fire Services!
Wait until I connect you with their claims adjudicator...

 

[Rick S]

My earlier point is that to tell someone to "go read up" on something is just calling them ignorant in a different way.
... if you want to be helpful, provide some input and "educate" those of us that you think need it!

On the railroads,
" More of a "government grabbing the land" and "financial robber barons using foreign labor as expendable human sacrifice" than a nice and tidy partnership of equals....."
Is that really that different from how today's private industry runs... different terms, but same stuff happens, eh?

Actually, though, I like the 911 analogy better...
....although you'd probably first have to go through a menu tree to choose your 911 service:
"Press 1 for AAA 911 Emergency Service"
"Press 2 for Joe's 911 and Bait and Tackle Service"
... etc.

 

[FinanceDude]

On the railroads,
" More of a "government grabbing the land" and "financial robber barons using foreign labor as expendable human sacrifice" than a nice and tidy partnership of equals....."
Is that really that different from how today's private industry runs... different terms, but same stuff happens, eh?

Sorry, I was sarcastically summing up what ACTUALLY happened with the railroads back in the day......

 

[Texas Proud]

Agree.........whatever happened to fiscal conservastism, am I the last one?

Nope.... but there are few of us... and of course the Repubs will be voted out because of what they did and it will be 20 or so years before they get back in power...

I get pissed that the conservative party became the right wing wacko party

 

[MasterBlaster]

Rick_S

You seem to be angry, yet you continue to espouse on which you know little. Ignorant and opinionated - that's a not a good combination.

So just to enlighten you on the socialistic nature of yet one of the well known railroad projects I post the following on the First Transcontinental Railroad ...

Two railroad companies were involved, the Central Pacific from the west and the Union Pacific from the east. Each was required to build only 50 miles (80 km) in the first year; after that, only 50 miles (80 km) more were required each year. Besides land grants along the right-of-way, each railroad was subsidized $16,000 per mile ($9,940/km) built over an easy grade, $32,000 per mile ($19,880/km) in the high plains, and $48,000 per mile ($29,830/km) in the mountains. The race was on to see which railroad company could build the longest section of track.

Those land grants, over the longer term by the way, were more valuable than the direct subsidy. As I recall they were given 10 square miles of prime farmland for each mile of line built.

Your example of roads and railroads was a very poor choice to contrast public and private investment and to contrast capitalism versus socialism.

 

[Rick S]

Rick_S

You seem to be angry, yet you continue to espouse on which you know little. Ignorant and opinionated - that's a not a good combination.

Thanks for your opinion of me personally.

I would think facts would be more persuasive than name calling, but, hey, whatever turns you on.

I'm fine with being told I'm wrong if you have facts to support it.
Being told I'm ignorant... well, you can go as low as you'd like.

I'm ugly too!

 

[Rick S]

Rick_S

Your example of roads and railroads was a very poor choice to contrast public and private investment and to contrast capitalism versus socialism.

Your facts are sufficient and speak for themselves.... although one could argue that subsidizing of private industry is still private industry. ... but, still, not the best example.

This would have been sufficient, I would think, without name calling.

To get back on track, I've already said that I think either the Fire Dept or 911 service would be a better example of necessary public works... would anyone like to comment on that?

 

[Martha]

Rick, here you are with all of 28 posts and nevertheless recovering nicely after being jumped and beaten upon.

 

[Rick S]

Thanks, Martha... I appreciate your comment.

 

[Zoocat]

Well, here I return to this thread after having posted about the denial and uninterest in the comments to the 60 minutes program and now I find that the thread has taken a right turn into the problem of the railroads! Very amusing!

Maybe it's not denial that causes people to avoid the topic of our country's eventual bankruptcy but a feeling that is pointless (since we have no control at all any more) to even talk about it. The thing is we do have some control. We can elect a new President who does address the issue.

 

[janeeyre]

I watched some of the linked presentation. I was already aware of the things that were presented.

The presentation reminded me of what Ross Perot showed a decade or so ago. Where is Ross when we need him ?

My take on all this is that changes (for the worse) are inevitable to SS and Medicare. They will definitely come, but nobody in Washington is talking about it. Where is some leadership when you need it.

There is no leadership and hasn't been for several years. The two major parties will never allow a "Ross Perot" or another party to arise. They love to keep the American electorate busy watching American Idol, Paris Hilton, etc. rather than watching what they do. Just this weekend Hilary and John Edwards were overheard (their mikes were on) conspiring to reduce the Democratic field of candidates and their participation in the debates.

 

[janeeyre]

Well, here I return to this thread after having posted about the denial and uninterest in the comments to the 60 minutes program and now I find that the thread has taken a right turn into the problem of the railroads! Very amusing!

Maybe it's not denial that causes people to avoid the topic of our country's eventual bankruptcy but a feeling that is pointless (since we have no control at all any more) to even talk about it. The thing is we do have some control. We can elect a new President who does address the issue.

Please let us know who that candidate is. I listen to and read many of their comments on various issues and I haven't heard it yet. In fact, the lack of attentions is/was the major concern/theme of that 60 minutes episode.

 

[Zoocat]

Please let us know who that candidate is. I listen to and read many of their comments on various issues and I haven't heard it yet. In fact, the lack of attentions is/was the major concern/theme of that 60 minutes episode.

I should have elaborated because I truly believe this is a huge issue and should be addressed by all Presidential candidates. The only way that it will be is if we ALL OF US press the candidates and MAKE them address it.

I have already started my nagging email campaign to all Democratic candidates. But they will only address issues that they perceive are important to the marjority of voters. If you think it's important whether or not our country goes bankrupt trying to pay all the Medicare and Social Security entitlement promises, then I suggest you join me and badger the hell out of these candidates, of both parties.

 

[ladelfina]

Very bizarre goings-on here (in Italy) w/r/t pension reform. Current pensionable (SS) age is as low as 57 (even lower for jobs that are risky or physically "consuming"). The center-left gov. (Prodi/Unione) wants to raise it, natch. All hell is breaking loose as, rather than ramp the age up gradually somehow, they have offered a "scalone" - a big age step-up.

Then another center-left member of his coalition (Rutelli) floated this winning idea: let men take SS a few years earlier than women (i.e., make women work longer), since women live longer!

Whooooo-weee! I don't think even the most rightward of the US wingers would risk going that route.

A lady writing to the paper tartly pointed out that after all the extra work ladies do here to take care of kids, take care of oldsters, and run the household on top of working (and making less money than men).. they should not only work longer, but then have to look after another child (their ER husband) to boot!?!?!? ;-DDD

[Sexist? Sure, but that's how things are here.. only a minority of men are able to feed, dress, or clean up after themselves. My SIL can't leave home for a week without preparing all her DH's meals in advance.]

 

[W2R]

My SIL can't leave home for a week without preparing all her DH's meals in advance.

That's pitiful!!

I remember back in the 1950's when that was more common here in the U.S. I guess it's analogous to the women who could not change light bulbs by themselves back then either. Totally pitiful.

 

[volga]

Thats Why My Wife is from the old country!

Why support a high maintenance American Diva when ones personal life can be enhanced through tradition where a wife knows how to serve her husband and familiy with class and dignity? I highly recommend marrying a foreign wife rather than a spoiled American. Its a two way street, as I worked hard to bring in plenty of funds to make life decent, but for heavens sake, American couples in marriage have totally lost their values in their effort to monetize their roles. There are some matters that can be measured with money, and others that can not.