Countries offering retirement visas

[tenant13]

This thread has 20 pages now so it's possible the link I'm posting is buried somewhere in the middle but for whoever is interested:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coun...ortugal-2022-8

[ShokWaveRider]

After the UK left the EU, I got my Maltese Citizenship by Maternal History. We are now applying for my DW based on my Citizenship and then we will have no issues visiting for long periods or living in an EU country. We still have to go to the Maltese Consulate in DC to finalize it for her. We are planning a trip for later this year to do so.

Although the EU is becoming less enticing with all the current issues, water issues etc. Even Portugal has its own issues. Malta itself is way too crowded, I think it may even be the most densely populated country in the Region or even maybe the world.

[braumeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenant13 This thread has 20 pages now so it's possible the link I'm posting is buried somewhere in the middle

Good point. This was always a thread looking for a list, so the title should have been changed long ago. Now it has been.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenant13 This thread has 20 pages now so it's possible the link I'm posting is buried somewhere in the middle but for whoever is interested: https://www.businessinsider.com/coun...ortugal-2022-8

FYI

Quote:

These are 20 countries that offer 'golden visas' to wealthy immigrants — with costs ranging from $19,000 in Thailand to $2.5 million in Australia

[explanade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider After the UK left the EU, I got my Maltese Citizenship by Maternal History. We are now applying for my DW based on my Citizenship and then we will have no issues visiting for long periods or living in an EU country. We still have to go to the Maltese Consulate in DC to finalize it for her. We are planning a trip for later this year to do so. Although the EU is becoming less enticing with all the current issues, water issues etc. Even Portugal has its own issues. Malta itself is way too crowded, I think it may even be the most densely populated country in the Region or even maybe the world.

Yet doesn't Malta aggressively offer Golden Visas and also digital nomad visas?

Fuel and electricity must be expensive though they get a lot of sun so solar should be widely used.

Where do they get potable water? Island must be too small for water sheds, reservoirs. No snowpack either.

[ShokWaveRider]

Quote:

Originally Posted by explanade Yet doesn't Malta aggressively offer Golden Visas and also digital nomad visas? Fuel and electricity must be expensive though they get a lot of sun so solar should be widely used. Where do they get potable water? Island must be too small for water sheds, reservoirs. No snowpack either.

I do not know about aggressive, mine cost me $178 and was pretty seamless. I would never have got it, but the UK went nuts with Brexit.

[oiseux]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenant13 This thread has 20 pages now so it's possible the link I'm posting is buried somewhere in the middle but for whoever is interested: https://www.businessinsider.com/coun...ortugal-2022-8

Note their Thailand section is out of date. The new visas are lower cost.

I think these articles do a disservice to some because they don't note that many have other visas available at much lower costs, with different conditions

[HenryD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oiseux Note their Thailand section is out of date. The new visas are lower cost. I think these articles do a disservice to some because they don't note that many have other visas available at much lower costs, with different conditions

The article does not even mention Costa Rica. They have for years offered income and investment visas - minimum $1500 income or $250k invested (house, business, etc.). They are rolling out a new digital nomad visa which in typical CR fashion has taken years to be implemented. The required SS/medicare-style tax (CAJA) has recently increased significantly for new permanent residents.

[explanade]

NY Times with article about how more Americans than ever are moving to Europe, in particular the poorer but nicer weather places in Southern Europe, such as Portugal, Spain and Greece, all of which have Digital Nomad and Golden Visa schemes.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...94lqHez8Vtus5h


Seems like the Golden Visa requirements are higher than they were before the pandemic, with Spain for instance requiring a real estate purchase of €500k or more.


So not necessarily a LBYM move, depending on what kind of home you buy there.

But the price would still be a fraction of what you'd pay in the US, especially homes near the coast or on the coast.

For retired people, Golden Visa would be the main option, though many EU countries also offer retirement visas as well. But it sounds like buying in with the GV would be faster process.

The question is taxes. Most retirees have retirement income as well retirement savings, from which they may generate income.

I know there's an exclusion amount, was it like $85k or something like that? But American retirees wouldn't be earning income in Europe, it would be all US income.

There must certainly be foreign taxes they'd be subject to, obviously property taxes and VAT. Any kind of income tax liability above and beyond what they pay to the IRS would be the big concern.

The other big issue for retirees is health care. Medicare doesn't cover people outside the US so ideally, if you invest at least hundreds of thousands of Euros, you'd want at least a path to get into the health care system over in these countries.

That would also involve some kind of taxes and/or insurance premiums and other costs.

Seems it would be much easier if you're still young and working. You can get coverage through employer or possibly just go without coverage or care for a few years.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by explanade The question is taxes. Most retirees have retirement income as well retirement savings, from which they may generate income. I know there's an exclusion amount, was it like $85k or something like that? But American retirees wouldn't be earning income in Europe, it would be all US income. There must certainly be foreign taxes they'd be subject to, obviously property taxes and VAT. Any kind of income tax liability above and beyond what they pay to the IRS would be the big concern. The other big issue for retirees is health care. Medicare doesn't cover people outside the US so ideally, if you invest at least hundreds of thousands of Euros, you'd want at least a path to get into the health care system over in these countries. That would also involve some kind of taxes and/or insurance premiums and other costs. Seems it would be much easier if you're still young and working. You can get coverage through employer or possibly just go without coverage or care for a few years.

Yes, taxes is a big issue.

As a USC you will be subject to taxes on your worldwide income regardless of where you live. The exclusion you refer to only applies to earned foreign income. Most/all European countries will have a double taxation treaty in place with the USA and the primary taxing authority will almost certainly be the country you are living in. For all the income that is taxed by both countries then you will claim foreign tax credits when filing your IRS return using forms 1116. There is a box on form 1116 called “Resourced by Treaty” to be used when a foreign tax credit is applied to US income that has been taxed by a foreign country. This is a simplified overview and actual situations can be much more complicated. e.g. if you have a Roth, will distributions be tax free in the foreign country?

Health coverage shouldn’t be a problem. You should be able to either buy private health insurance, or the equivalent of a “Green Card” will include public healthcare in the country of residence.

[explanade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Yes, taxes is a big issue. As a USC you will be subject to taxes on your worldwide income regardless of where you live. The exclusion you refer to only applies to earned foreign income. Most/all European countries will have a double taxation treaty in place with the USA and the primary taxing authority will almost certainly be the country you are living in. For all the income that is taxed by both countries then you will claim foreign tax credits when filing your IRS return using forms 1116. There is a box on form 1116 called “Resourced by Treaty” to be used when a foreign tax credit is applied to US income that has been taxed by a foreign country. This is a simplified overview and actual situations can be much more complicated. e.g. if you have a Roth, will distributions be tax free in the foreign country? Health coverage shouldn’t be a problem. You should be able to either buy private health insurance, or the equivalent of a “Green Card” will include public healthcare in the country of residence.

So that NY Times article references Golden Visa buyers being exempt from certain taxes in Portugal, another thing which the locals complain about.

Yeah I already have a certain amount of foreign taxes paid by various funds in my portfolio so I guess it would lower my US tax bill somewhat, as I pay more foreign taxes.

[braumeister]

Recent reports show those Golden Visas going away. The EU doesn't like them. Here is just one report; you can find many online:

Why Did Portugal Terminate Its Golden Visa

Other countries with similar program are also under pressure to eliminate them.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by explanade So that NY Times article references Golden Visa buyers being exempt from certain taxes in Portugal, another thing which the locals complain about. Yeah I already have a certain amount of foreign taxes paid by various funds in my portfolio so I guess it would lower my US tax bill somewhat, as I pay more foreign taxes.

The article is behind a paywall for me but for sure the tax treaties will vary from country to country and tax breaks to attract immigrants will also vary.

Most double taxation treaties ensure that you don’t pay too much extra tax so you will pay the higher of the country’s tax obligations.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister Recent reports show those Golden Visas going away. The EU doesn't like them. Here is just one report; you can find many online: Why Did Portugal Terminate Its Golden Visa Other countries with similar program are also under pressure to eliminate them.

The UK also terminated its Golden Visa program in recent years.

If you already have one, it can still be extended.

https://www.gov.uk/tier-1-investor

Quote:

If you already have this visa (or had one in the last 12 months and it was your most recent visa), you can still apply: to settle in the UK (indefinite leave to remain) to extend your visa for 2 years for family members to join you