Countries offering retirement visas

[explanade]

Came across this article about the pop star Shakira, who's facing tax evasion charges in Spain.

She's from Colombia but has lived in different places over the years. She started living with a soccer star in Barcelona, ended up building a home there and even had a baby there.

She's paid tens of millions in taxes already but is facing another big 8-figure tax bill and the possibility of a prison sentence.

She formally changed her residency to Spain in 2015 but the Spanish authorities are pursuing possible charges for the 2-3 years before this change of residency status.

Shakira was accused of tax fraud in December 2018, following an investigation into how many days she had lived in Spain before changing her residency in 2015. Spanish tax law requires that individuals who spend 183 days or more in the country are residents and must pay taxes there.

The investigation monitored Shakira's activity, using paparazzi and social media photos as evidence of her whereabouts. Those included photos of the "Waka Waka" singer supervising the construction on the family's new home in 2012 while pregnant with her first son. She gave birth in a Barcelona hospital in early 2013. Investigators even interrogated a local hairdresser to determine the frequency of her appointments.

The investigation found that Shakira spent 243 days in Spain in 2012, 212 days in 2013 and 244 days in 2014. Prosecutors claim that during that period, Shakira did not spend "one day" in the Bahamas, even though she claimed residency there.

https://www.billboard.com/articles/...pain-tax-evasion-charges-jail-policy-analysis

That's right, Spain will tax your worldwide income if you reside more than 183 days in Spain in any year.

And as the article notes, they like to make examples of celebrities, shame them or hound them out of the country apparently.

It also mentions that these policies are in contrast to neighboring Portugal and Italy, which offer some kind of tax inducements to attract people to move there.

Not sure if it's any people with means or celebrities.

 

[ragabnh]

I am thinking to spend some years in Thailand, I can meet retirement Visa Requirements. I am looking for first hand experience from retirees living there in general and Pattaya in particular. I have visited twice in the early eighties and again 3 months ago and I think I will be fine there. All input is welcomed.

 

[martyp]

I am thinking to spend some years in Thailand, I can meet retirement Visa Requirements. I am looking for first hand experience from retirees living there in general and Pattaya in particular. I have visited twice in the early eighties and again 3 months ago and I think I will be fine there. All input is welcomed.

I retired from San Franscio to Thailand in 2017. I am living in Bangkok. I've been to Pattaya many times.

The best "retirement" visa is to get a non-immigrant 0-A visa. It is a 1 year multiple entry visa. Every time, during that first year, that you leave and re-enter the country you get a year stamped in to your passport for permission to stay. If you re-enter just before the end of the 1st year you will have gotten about 2 years on that initial visa. After that you can apply for 1 year extensions indefinitely. Or you could go back to the US and start the O-A process again.

I got my visa at the Thai Consulate in LA. You go to their website and look at the requirements. You give them the documents and your passport and you get your passport returned the next day with your visa. I believe you can do it all by mail as well and that it takes about 2 weeks.

Make sure you understand the financial requirements. For an O-A visa you can depend on your US bank accounts. 1 year extensions require a Thai bank account which you will have plenty of time to get once you are here.

Really, all the information you need can be obtained in a Facebook group called "Thai visa advice". It is a tightly moderated group with accurate advice and not a lot of useless comments and speculation. You can also try the Thaivisa.com website but that is a bit of a free-for-all and you will see a lot of negative comments there. Don't be put off by that. Just focus on your own particular goals and financial situation and follow the directions on the Thai consulate website.

 

[ragabnh]

MartyP, great info indeed, many thanks, much appreciated.

So how do you like living there? anything you advice me prior to moving there? I am considering Bangkok as well, but leaning towards Pattaya. In your opinion what is the area to consider for renting in Bangkok and the rate for a small one bed room apartment?

I live currently in Vegas, Nevada and lived for 10 years in the Bay Area previously.

 

[truenorth418]

Do you pay out of pocket and they reimburse you?



Do they have networks?



Do they have to preauthorize certain procedures?

I’m not the person you asked but I’ve researched Cigna in the past but chose to use Aetna. They both typically reimburse expenses. In my case with Aetna I simply upload my receipts and the reimbursement appears in my bank account about 2 weeks later.

They also have a list of hospitals and providers, depending on the country, where you can set up direct payment. I have not used those providers myself yet in my experience.

 

[martyp]

MartyP, great info indeed, many thanks, much appreciated.

So how do you like living there? anything you advice me prior to moving there? I am considering Bangkok as well, but leaning towards Pattaya. In your opinion what is the area to consider for renting in Bangkok and the rate for a small one bed room apartment?

I live currently in Vegas, Nevada and lived for 10 years in the Bay Area previously.

Two years here and I am loving it. Bangkok is both modern and Thai and has plenty of things to do. It is a city though, with traffic and air pollution and many people. I've never lived in a city before and I am thoroughly enjoying it. I actually like not owning a house and car. I am in a great location, Phra Khanong, which is close enough to the city center but also near a great traditional Thai fresh market and a good street food scene. I am lucky to be renting a nice condo with a pool with a view of the city. Note that Bangkok is significantly more expensive than Pattaya but it falls within my budget. Not everyone wants to live in a city.

Wherever you start it doesn't have to be your final location. Start by renting. Travel around to explore the rest of Thailand. Thailand is, as you have probably already seen, from what I hear, much different that in the 1980's. You've been here recently as a tourist but you begin to see things a little differently as a resident. I always have to tell people that retirement is not like vacation. Similarly, being a resident is not quite like being a tourist.

I came here with a just a couple of suitcases. Make sure you familiarize yourself with the Immigration requirements. Be secure in your finances. Pick a good bank in the US for wire transfers. I had problems with Wells Fargo and had to switch to Bank of America. Keep a US address if you can. I am using my sister's address. Keep a US phone number if you can, at least at first. I got the cheapest ATT plan I could but my daily phone is a Thai phone number. US banks and some other things in the US typically want a US address and a US phone number. Your US health insurance probably covers you as a traveler but otherwise you will have to look at a Thai insurance company if insurance is important to you. Similarly with a drivers license. You can drive as tourist but soon you will have to get a Thai drivers license if you want to drive here. If you have a US license then that will help a lot.

It is very possible you will want to get some Thai language skills. If you are in Bangkok then the Duke Language school is one of the best. In either Bangkok or Pattaya you will be fine with English.

I've been to Pattaya many times because I have friend who moved there and bought a condo there. It is significantly cheaper there. For my tastes, there are too many foreigners there in the central business district but you seem to enjoy it. By the way, just off of Pattaya with a 45 minute boat ride is Koh Larn. A small and beautiful island with white sand beaches and blue water. Much nicer for swimming than Pattaya beach but I like sitting on Pattaya beach with a beer, and food, and watching the world go by. There seems to be an active expat online community so you should look for that on the internet and in Facebook. They will be a good source of Pattaya information.

Good luck and enjoy

 

[explanade]

Going to visit Thailand for the first time in February.

Thing I see is that there's a wide range of prices for places to stay. When you see a 3-night stay for $50 a night, you're kind of wary. I booked a more costly place with a view of Wat Arun from the room.

I also see a wide range of food prices though still lower overall than Europe or US. Some video blogger went to a mall, had a curry dish for a couple of dollars and said it was very good compared to Thai food in the US. But if you look at restaurants attached to luxury hotels, then the dishes are more in the $15-20 range, probably more if you want steak, especially steak which might have been imported.

Not that steak would be the first thing you look for in Thailand.

Yeah I will have to see how the crowding and pollution is like. I guess the taxi drivers can be shady, like trying not to use the meters. Or there is a "taxi mafia" on Phuket and prices are pretty high.

 

[martyp]

Going to visit Thailand for the first time in February.

Thing I see is that there's a wide range of prices for places to stay. When you see a 3-night stay for $50 a night, you're kind of wary. I booked a more costly place with a view of Wat Arun from the room.

I also see a wide range of food prices though still lower overall than Europe or US. Some video blogger went to a mall, had a curry dish for a couple of dollars and said it was very good compared to Thai food in the US. But if you look at restaurants attached to luxury hotels, then the dishes are more in the $15-20 range, probably more if you want steak, especially steak which might have been imported.

Not that steak would be the first thing you look for in Thailand.

Yeah I will have to see how the crowding and pollution is like. I guess the taxi drivers can be shady, like trying not to use the meters. Or there is a "taxi mafia" on Phuket and prices are pretty high.

I am living in Bangkok now but when I was traveling here I generally booked hotels in the $50/night range and they were very nice and convenient to the BTS skytrain system. Not to worry.

Inexpensive food is Thailand is much much better than what is considered inexpensive food in the US. Thai food in the US is, to put it mildly, bland. Not all Thai food is spicy but it can get very spicy so be careful. Generally speaking, if a restaurant looks like a western quality place then you can expect higher prices. If you are eating in a heavily touristed location, like Khao San Road, the food will be not very interesting.

January and February during the past two years have been exceptionally polluted (air pollution). The rest of the year is fine. Today, July in the rainy season, the sky is clear and blue. The AQI is 34. Perfect.

Taxis are a great deal compared to the US. I've never had a problem with taxis other than having them refuse to go where I wanted to go. They refuse Thais as well as foreigners. If you are going to have a problem with a taxi then it will be the ones parked just outside the tourist hotels. Taxis not using the meter does sometimes happen. Just agree on a price before you get in. Even without the meter it will be a cheap ride.

 

[explanade]

Thanks.

Ever use Grab instead of taxis?

 

[martyp]

Thanks.

Ever use Grab instead of taxis?

I have the app but have never used it. I would only use it in locations where a taxi was not available. I was visiting someone in a large gated community once. There were no taxis roaming around in there. I called for an Uber back when they were still operating. I’m fine with regular taxis and motorbike taxis. There are people here though that use Grab.

 

[bmcgonig]

Thanks.

Ever use Grab instead of taxis?

I used grab in both Chiang Mai and Bangkok. Used it from the BKK airport to downtown as well. Very much like Uber. Works great and seemed very inexpensive. I didn't attach a credit card to it like you do with Uber, just paid cash.

 

[zinger1457]

Going to visit Thailand for the first time in February.

Thing I see is that there's a wide range of prices for places to stay. When you see a 3-night stay for $50 a night, you're kind of wary. I booked a more costly place with a view of Wat Arun from the room.

I also see a wide range of food prices though still lower overall than Europe or US. Some video blogger went to a mall, had a curry dish for a couple of dollars and said it was very good compared to Thai food in the US. But if you look at restaurants attached to luxury hotels, then the dishes are more in the $15-20 range, probably more if you want steak, especially steak which might have been imported.

It's been a few years since I stayed in Bangkok but would highly recommend getting a hotel within walking distance of the BTS. Very easy to use and convenient for getting around to most places, Bangkok traffic can be terrible so best to avoid if possible. I would avoid the luxury hotel restaurants, there are so many good restaurants that are reasonably priced. Some of the street food stalls are very good and worth trying but helps to have a local to help you out.

 

[JoeFromBoston]

Or you can go to Cigna global and many others directly. You have to see who is better in your country of residence. I am pretty happy with a Cigna Global.

I agree - Cigna Global is very strong. They have a number of different levels of cover and you can pick and choose different modules to add on or not (like inpatient, outpatient, evacuation, US cover, etc.) to save you money.

 

[VungTau]

Vietnam

MartyP, great info indeed, many thanks, much appreciated.

So how do you like living there? anything you advice me prior to moving there? I am considering Bangkok as well, but leaning towards Pattaya. In your opinion what is the area to consider for renting in Bangkok and the rate for a small one bed room apartment?

I live currently in Vegas, Nevada and lived for 10 years in the Bay Area previously.

You should check out Vietnam. Lots of guys from Thailand have moved here because of the costs and the perceived change in the attitude of the locals towards foreigners (farang). I haven't experienced that myself on my visits to Thailand but I sure am enjoying Vietnam!

 

[ragabnh]

You should check out Vietnam. Lots of guys from Thailand have moved here because of the costs and the perceived change in the attitude of the locals towards foreigners (farang). I haven't experienced that myself on my visits to Thailand but I sure am enjoying Vietnam!

Thanks, advice is much appreciated,

I was planning to visit Vietnam for sure, it is on my list of countries that I want to explore. I do not have knowledge or researched this country as of yet.

In your opinion for a western expat, what is the best place to retire in Vietnam, big city option and a beach town option is appreciated

 

[VungTau]

Danang for a big city
Vung Tau for a beach city
Hue for both!

 

[explanade]

So no deposit insurance in Mexico apparently.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...r-life-savings-vanished-mexican-bank-n1059666

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

So no deposit insurance in Mexico apparently.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...r-life-savings-vanished-mexican-bank-n1059666

I would never buy property or deposit anything outside the US.

 

[ragabnh]

Keep your money in the US and transfer enough regularly to cover 6 months or so of your expenses. Foreign countries cannot be trusted.

 

[meierlde]

Re the Mexico story note that bank did not fail but the folks relied on a local agent to interact with the bank,who embezzled their money. The agent was one for the bank, but because the office of the bank where they lived they did not deal directly with a bank branch. Actually in that sort of case to also avoid the IrS and the difficulty of interacting with foreign banks re reporting of income to the IRS it would make sense to use electronic banking, maintain a local account, with either a foreign affiliate of the US bank, or correspondent bank of theirs. Then one could set up a transfer on demand link to move money and convert from dollars to the local currency. Clearly local affiliates of big us banks likley also have online banking. (The idea is don't use an agent who could embezzle the money). Of course plus or minus exchange rates an atm card could be used to get local currency wherever an atm machine exists.

 

[explanade]

I guess unless you have a need for a lot of cash at a given time, you don't even need local bank accounts, just use credit cards and then ATM withdrawals to pay for living expenses.

But these people were building dream homes so they moved their entire savings over?

How much were they planning to pay the contractors? Maybe those payments should be broken up into more manageable amounts and then wired over from US.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Foreign countries cannot be trusted.

And where did you pull this gem out of? If anything you should be just as careful with US Banks, AKA Wells Fargo. There are probably lots of other examples also.

Amazing how folks can generalize, remember there are a lot of gullible people out there who will believe you and pass it on.

 

[Kroeran]

Before deciding to winter in Florida, I spent a lot of time
on the Americans in Panama forum and talking to people
with homes in San Miguel Mexico and Mexico City.

My take away was that in any such places, any assets or valuables you take in, become targets and vulnerabilities.

So, you rent and let someone else have that exposure, you take enough cash out of an ATM to get through THE WEEK, you don’t take a pet which might be harmed by a groomer or vet, you take taxis or hire drivers to avoid exposures of driving, you dress simply with no flash, you use cheap electronics assuming they will be stolen, you assume the police and legal system is not an option for remedy of disputes. Set things up so that you can walk away from any situation or fly out on short notice and not look back.

I guess there is the chance to live very well on not much money, and that is a serious upside. Seemed to make the most sense for a single guy, with Spanish, limited income, and international experience.

 

[ziggy29]

And where did you pull this gem out of? If anything you should be just as careful with US Banks, AKA Wells Fargo.

Yeah, it's not like they created a bunch of fraudulent accounts or anything....

 

[ncbill]

I guess unless you have a need for a lot of cash at a given time, you don't even need local bank accounts, just use credit cards and then ATM withdrawals to pay for living expenses.

But these people were building dream homes so they moved their entire savings over?

How much were they planning to pay the contractors? Maybe those payments should be broken up into more manageable amounts and then wired over from US.

Yes, they should have not moved their life savings into a local account at a Mexican bank.

Apart from one agent looting their account the government itself has in the past done such things as converting dollar-denominated accounts into peso-denominated accounts at rates not favorable to depositors.